CloneBD

[mcmenace]

2 things

why are you still using bd-r's? You've been advised to pick yourself up a bd-re to avoid wasting blanks.
Although the label is bd25, the max a disc can hold is 23.5gb for real. 23.1gb should fit just fine.

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I can avoid wasting blanks by simply using 50GB DL media, cheaper and work every time, not to mention BD-RE's may save blanks but what about the days of wasted time, can't get that back. That doesn't explain why cloneBD won't do 2 hour(+) movies on a 25GB blank, as it should 4 months since release?

Also there are problems (at least that one I know of) with movies I've appeared to burn successfully on the 25GB media. Body of Lies (128Mins) plays fine thru 2/3 of the movie then the video freezes but the audio continues, like a radio. It's a bit over 2 hours, finished burning but won't play.

Maybe 23.1 should fit but if you read the log, it says prior to burn around 24GB is needed. When I look at a blank disc, PC reports 23.0 GB available. Additional space is also required to close the session. If check the last 2 releases of cloneBD, they knew this was going on and made an attempt to correct it, but failed. This is why it failed....

01:19:50.667 | Total size of generated files: 24894983929 bytes - pre-burn, should stop right there, with v1030 it does.
01:19:50.667 | ---------------------------------------
01:19:50.667 | -------------BURN TO DISC-----------
01:19:50.667 | Burn engine start
01:19:50.986 | Burn to drive: H:
01:19:50.986 | Medium: Writable Blu-ray Disc BD-R
01:19:50.986 | Space used: 0
01:19:50.986 | Space available: 25025314816 - even you know that's not the case.

The problem is real or they wouldn't have made a try at fixing it by adjusting the available GB's. They just didn't go far enough. I've come to know a support guy and they're aware of whats going on, part of the reason for latest release (1034). I taught myself to become an engineer and I can figure this stuff out too, at least enough to see what's going on.

 

[mcmenace]

I don't see a real problem. There was a write error to the outside edge of the disc so it failed. you can't then put that failed disc into the drive and expect a proper message back from AnyDVD HD as it then becomes a corrupt disc with incorrect data on it so the message inside AnyDVD HD is not necessarily correct.
As Ch3vr0n said SL BD-R's hold more than 23.18Gib (it's actually 23.3GiB not 23.5GiB) so the 23.18 should fit as long as your writer/discs don't have issues burning to the outer edge.

I think part of the problem with CloneBD is that if it fails to burn it stops immediately whereas something like Imgburn will re-try a few times and sometimes trying to burn again will work, although even if it works it does usually mean that the disc will degrade in that area fairly quickly over time.

I think BD Rebuilder gets round this by making it's default SL BD-R only 22.9GiB in size (although they tend to come out around 22.1) and therefore not burning right to the edge

Your'e incorrect, PC reports blanks hold 23.0 GB, so 23.18 + what's needed to close the session won't fit. This past release they did manipulate the size, as you stated another program does, but just didn't go far enough. Version 1030 see it won't fit and stops, saving a blank. Newer versions just continue to write anyway, even if what's there is more than what's available. This is what cloneBD saw before burn...just 1 of many failures, all past the 2+ hour "barrier"

01:19:50.667 | Total size of generated files: 24894983929 bytes
01:19:50.667 | ---------------------------------------
01:19:50.667 | -------------BURN TO DISC-----------
01:19:50.667 | Burn engine start
01:19:50.986 | Burn to drive: H:
01:19:50.986 | Medium: Writable Blu-ray Disc BD-R
01:19:50.986 | Space used: 0
01:19:50.986 | Space available: 25025314816

2 huge problems that I see that caused the failure, the 24.9 GB generated "space" and the incorrect Space available of 25+GB. If that what it sees, a burn failure is sure to follow. Since nobody would help me here before, I turned to support, took awhile but I finally have an ear. Should have tried that in the first place and avoided these pointless arguments here. No matter what I say is wrong, even when I show you a burn won't work, you deny it or don't answer. Then I got people telling me "I told you to use BD-RE's??" OMG what a solution. You can pretend what you see isn't real or whatever but there are people that know looking at it. Hey at least I'm trying to get this to work.

Successful backups don't burn close to the edge, my guess is these have run out of usable space and are looking for more, as far as they can go before failing. In response to you saying you "don't see a real problem" what is not burning **any** 2+hour movie to a 25MB blank then?? A bump in the road? 4 months down that road? As with body of lies (2009) where it's just a bit over 2 hours and burned "successfully" when I actually watched it 2/3 in the movie, the video freezes and the audio just keeps rolling along, like a radio.

 

[DSquare]

With the burning issues the program has they should have put in a warning message in the program that burning is not stable, burn at your own risk, we recommend the use of BD-RE until the program becomes more stable. Especially when they are charging for a product and its wasting bd-r's.

 

[Adbear]

You really need to learn about how to work out the space. You are calculating it wrong. SL BD-R's hold 23.3GiB or 25GB. Your disc size came in at 23.18Gib or 24.9GB. In both cases it should fit on a blank BD-R as long as your writer/discs can actually be written to it's fullest. By the sound of it either your writer or your discs can't be written completely to the outer edge which is why it came back with a write error in the log.

To work out the space in GB take the size of the disc in bytes

25025314816 and divide by 1000 to get Kilobytes

25025314.816 and divide by 1000 to get Megabytes

25025.314816 and divide by 1000 to get Gigabytes which gives you 25.02314816 your shrunk disc size came in at 24.894983929 so smaller than the actual disc size reported in the logfile

Unfortunately most people write GiB as GB, but to work that out it's the same as above but you divide by 1024

25025314816 and divide by 1024 to get Kibibytes (commonly called KB)

24438784 and divide by 1024 to get Mebibytes (commonly called MB)

23866 and divide by 1024 to get Gibibytes (commonly called GB) which gives you 23.306640625 your shrunk disc size came in at 23.18526052776724 so again smaller than the actual disc size reported in the logfile

I've written discs from folders before that have had less than 100MB of disc space left after adding the folders before writing the disc and they've been written and closed with no problems.

Yes, it would make more sense for them to decrease the output size, but that's because discs/writers can be flaky right on the outside edge. If the discs and writers worked how they are supposed to then it wouldn't be an issue.

 

[mcmenace]

You really need to learn about how to work out the space. You are calculating it wrong. SL BD-R's hold 23.3GiB or 25GB. Your disc size came in at 23.18Gib or 24.9GB. In both cases it should fit on a blank BD-R as long as your writer/discs can actually be written to it's fullest. By the sound of it either your writer or your discs can't be written completely to the outer edge which is why it came back with a write error in the log.

To work out the space in GB take the size of the disc in bytes

25025314816 and divide by 1000 to get Kilobytes

25025314.816 and divide by 1000 to get Megabytes

25025.314816 and divide by 1000 to get Gigabytes which gives you 25.02314816 your shrunk disc size came in at 24.894983929 so smaller than the actual disc size reported in the logfile

Unfortunately most people write GiB as GB, but to work that out it's the same as above but you divide by 1024

25025314816 and divide by 1024 to get Kibibytes (commonly called KB)

24438784 and divide by 1024 to get Mebibytes (commonly called MB)

23866 and divide by 1024 to get Gibibytes (commonly called GB) which gives you 23.306640625 your shrunk disc size came in at 23.18526052776724 so again smaller than the actual disc size reported in the logfile

I've written discs from folders before that have had less than 100MB of disc space left after adding the folders before writing the disc and they've been written and closed with no problems.

Yes, it would make more sense for them to decrease the output size, but that's because discs/writers can be flaky right on the outside edge. If the discs and writers worked how they are supposed to then it wouldn't be an issue.

No adbear, I don't need to know anything about that stuff than I already do. For one thing you're wrong about how much space a blank disc has. Both my ritek and verbatim 25 GB blanks report 23.0 GB available when I click on the icon and bring it up. You must include who knows however many MB's it takes to close the session after the burn every time. Whomever is in charge of cloneBD might wanna know all that though.

I'm just reporting what I see and trying to figure out why movies in excess of 2 hours will not burn properly on a 25GB disc....and they won't no matter how you play with numbers. That is a fact and I have plenty of logs and screenshots to prove it. Slysoft/Elby know's it, look how they tried creating space with this latest release. You can thank me for that, they've been getting failures to analyze every day, or can try and justify what even they know needs fixed. You're barking up the wrong tree.

25025.314816 and divide by 1000 to get Gigabytes which gives you 25.02314816 your shrunk disc size came in at 24.894983929 so smaller than the actual disc size reported in the logfile.

But bigger than the 23.0 GB available. Look how close that is ... a few hundred MB's and you're forgetting about the amount of MB's it takes to close the session, removing more space available for burning, that right there could cause a burn failure. My Verbatim and Ritek blanks when inserted into the burner each report 23.0 GB available, again without allowing for closing the session. Arguing with me isn't gonna change what's going on. Maybe you should ask them.

 

[Turkleton]

It doesn't take up any of the "user" available space to close a disc when it's being written in one go. Whatever the drive reports as available free space on the disc is how much real data you can write to it.

 

[mcmenace]

With the burning issues the program has they should have put in a warning message in the program that burning is not stable, burn at your own risk, we recommend the use of BD-RE until the program becomes more stable. Especially when they are charging for a product and its wasting bd-r's.

yep, and keep in mind this is 4 months since it was released. Seems to be getting worse instead of better.

 

[mcmenace]

It doesn't take up any of the "user" available space to close a disc when it's being written in one go. Whatever the drive reports as available free space on the disc is how much real data you can write to it.

Thanks for that, knew of space taken up by disc closing sessions, but if only in multi-sessions then not a problem for most users. If that's the case the full 23.0 GB is available to write.

 

[Ch3vr0n]

Then stop using it, problem solved. Some things get changed, having a negative effect this tells them what they did isn't working and have to try a different thing. It can also fix things. Creating new things has ups and downs, nothing that gets created goes only up or only down.

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[mcmenace]

Then stop using it, problem solved. Some things get changed, having a negative effect this tells them what they did isn't working and have to try a different thing. It can also fix things. Creating new things has ups and downs, nothing that gets created goes only up or only down.

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Why the attitude? Spent $100 on a program that was supposed to work 4 months ago and just stop using it?? Not without a refund and impossible to pay me for wasted time. Why should I "get rid of it" anyway. Does it's share of movies NP. I'm sure they'll figure it out eventually. I'd rather point out problems as they appear to help get it right. I'm doing things that are working towards a fix. You're simply trying to make excuses for them. What does that accomplish? Doesn't matter why, how or where this came from, fact is it's there and needs to get resolved.

Just made and watched a perfect 25 GB backup of Seeking Justice 105 mins. Not my equipment blanks or anything else except the failure of the program to burn 2 hours+ movies on 25 GB media. It's nothing personal why do you take it that way? At least I'm not here whimpering because somebody pointed out a big time failure, but trying to send as much info as I can for analyses by those who are capable of doing something about it.

What would you rather me do, since stop using the program is not an option? Just sit here and have to use 50GB blanks on every movie slightly over 2 hours and say nothing? That's not how things get straightened out. You've done the same thing every time I find a problem and you're doing it again.....why? They have to know what's broke before they can fix it.

 

[Ch3vr0n]

I use it simply for testing and bug reporting ATM, want guaranteed working discs: bd-rebuilder until clonebd is more stable.

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[Adbear]

No adbear, I don't need to know anything about that stuff than I already do. For one thing you're wrong about how much space a blank disc has. Both my ritek and verbatim 25 GB blanks report 23.0 GB available when I click on the icon and bring it up. You must include who knows however many MB's it takes to close the session after the burn every time. Whomever is in charge of cloneBD might wanna know all that though.

I'm just reporting what I see and trying to figure out why movies in excess of 2 hours will not burn properly on a 25GB disc....and they won't no matter how you play with numbers. That is a fact and I have plenty of logs and screenshots to prove it. Slysoft/Elby know's it, look how they tried creating space with this latest release. You can thank me for that, they've been getting failures to analyze every day, or can try and justify what even they know needs fixed. You're barking up the wrong tree.



But bigger than the 23.0 GB available. Look how close that is ... a few hundred MB's and you're forgetting about the amount of MB's it takes to close the session, removing more space available for burning, that right there could cause a burn failure. My Verbatim and Ritek blanks when inserted into the burner each report 23.0 GB available, again without allowing for closing the session. Arguing with me isn't gonna change what's going on. Maybe you should ask them.

Again you are wrong. Don't use Windows Explorer to see how big a disc is as it misreports the size, always has. Use a decent program such as Imgburn if you want to get the real size of a BD-R. All SL BD-R's are the same size 25GB/23.3GiB this is an industry standard. The information about the size of the disc is stored on the disc itself along with other information such as manufacturer and the dye used on the disc. You even get to see the size of your discs in your CloneBD logfile and it clearly shows them as being 25GB/23.3GiB.

The only reason you wouldn't be able to get the full amount onto a disc is due to poor manufacturing of the discs which is pretty common. As I tried to explain in my previous post your shrunk size comes in at under that size so if the writer/discs were able to write to the full extent as they should be able to then the files would fit on the disc, but due to poor manufacturing your discs aren't being able to be written to the full outside edge so it returns a write failure when it gets to the outside. Elby have obviously tried to reduce the size of the output to allow for these manufacturing defects, but they possibly need to look at reducing it bit further.
It also has nothing to do with how many hours are on a disc but to do with the amount of information. You can take a 90 minute film and if the original bitrate is very high then when it gets shrunk down it could easily fill the disc just as much as a film over 2 hours long. It's just more noticeable with longer films as they have more information to start with.

I've never said you're not having a problem, but trying to explain why the issue happens. If the discs were perfectly manufactured you wouldn't have the issue as the discs would be written with over 100MB to spare.

You also don't have to use DL discs. You could choose the 25GB output option then try moving the slider down by about 1GB and see if it then fits. That's why the slider is there to allow for manual size adjustments.

 

[mcmenace]

I use it simply for testing and bug reporting ATM, want guaranteed working discs: bd-rebuilder until clonebd is more stable.

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I don't have that luxury, I'm stuck with this product, so I'm gonna have to try and help when I can. It's kinda sad though this long after release we're even having this conversation...

 

[gereral1]

Once they work out all the bugs I might buy it but still waiting and reading posts........

 

[Ch3vr0n]

What luxury? Bd-rebuilder us completely free. So yes you do.

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[mcmenace]

Again you are wrong. Don't use Windows Explorer to see how big a disc is as it misreports the size, always has. Use a decent program such as Imgburn if you want to get the real size of a BD-R. All SL BD-R's are the same size 25GB/23.3GiB this is an industry standard. The information about the size of the disc is stored on the disc itself along with other information such as manufacturer and the dye used on the disc. You even get to see the size of your discs in your CloneBD logfile and it clearly shows them as being 25GB/23.3GiB.

The only reason you wouldn't be able to get the full amount onto a disc is due to poor manufacturing of the discs which is pretty common. As I tried to explain in my previous post your shrunk size comes in at under that size so if the writer/discs were able to write to the full extent as they should be able to then the files would fit on the disc, but due to poor manufacturing your discs aren't being able to be written to the full outside edge so it returns a write failure when it gets to the outside. Elby have obviously tried to reduce the size of the output to allow for these manufacturing defects, but they possibly need to look at reducing it bit further.
It also has nothing to do with how many hours are on a disc but to do with the amount of information. You can take a 90 minute film and if the original bitrate is very high then when it gets shrunk down it could easily fill the disc just as much as a film over 2 hours long. It's just more noticeable with longer films as they have more information to start with.

I've never said you're not having a problem, but trying to explain why the issue happens. If the discs were perfectly manufactured you wouldn't have the issue as the discs would be written with over 100MB to spare.

You also don't have to use DL discs. You could choose the 25GB output option then try moving the slider down by about 1GB and see if it then fits. That's why the slider is there to allow for manual size adjustments.

If you can explain it why don't you tell Elby? Believe me they would love to know. And we have seen to forgot about the elephant in the room, cinavia, since this big time failure is going on. It may never have done them, I dunno. I do know v1030 must scan the disc before burning because it won't write to a disc it sees as too big to fit. I'm going to use that version, as it prevents coasters. Get the burn error but nothing is written. Newest version, supposed to fix it, rushed through IMO, writes even though it won't fit.

If amount of information is the case then why would a b&w film, no extra's 2 barely over 2 hours not burn? Understand I know about this as I've had countless fail. Only thing they have in common is 2 hours+. Why do you think Elby moved their default size around on this past release? Possibly a little more will fix it, if so we'll know soon. They are aware of it.

Funny thing is I got an email telling me update was being tested then released and the very 1st movie I tried (Mission Impossible IV) failed. A good test as way over 2 hours and lots of action etc. I'd love to know whose doing the testing. I offered.

The slider doesn't work and I posed that question last week here and nobody bothered to answer, in this very thread. Slysoft/Elby never suggested using it when I sent in all my failures.

What makes you think my discs are poorly manufactured? I buy the best and from a reputable website. Verbatim and Ritek, both highly rated. I don't get how you can make that assumption off the cuff. Seeking justice wrote to about 1/8" from the edge and works. Never saw one burn all the way to the edge and work, but don't look at every one. Common sense tells me they aren't designed to burn all the way to the edge.

In any case, your missing the point, all excuses aside, this program should work same as clonedvd. I believe strongly that was the intention and has failed to deliver 4 months in. If folks are putting 2 hour+ movies successfully on 25 GB media why aren't they saying so and why is Elby in a jam over it?

Thanks for your suggestions and such, but I don't think they're the answer or it's that easy or Elby would have told me in our numerous conversations or just fixed it.

 

[mcmenace]

What luxury? Bd-rebuilder us completely free. So yes you do.

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Link please

 

[mcmenace]

Once they work out all the bugs I might buy it but still waiting and reading posts........

Good idea, I bought it based on their past successes. Disappointed for sure, but it does do a lot of movies flawlessly. Matter of time till it works OK. I think they'll get this 2 hour mess fixed soon but cinavia is still lurking.

 

[gereral1]

If folks are putting 2 hour+ movies successfully on 25 GB media why aren't they saying so and why is Elby in a jam over it?

You can head over to third party forums and check out my how to series. Ive spent much time creating videos on how to take a move from 45 gig down to 13g. All I can say is try my way then judge the results.... not sure if it breaks the rules.to suggest this....if so delete this post.....

 

[Adbear]

I don't need to tell Elby about these things, they already know about Blu-ray media having poor outer edges, what they need to do is get their algorithm working better so it makes the disc size smaller so it doesn't burn to the outer edges.

I have been writing films over 2 hours long, quite a few of them. So there you go someone has said so. It's not down to the time on the movie but down to the bitrate applied to the movie file. You can take a 90 minute film and apply a high bitrate and it will come out the same size as a 2+ hour movie with a lower bitrate.

Most BD-R's have issues writing to the outer edge. This is down to poor manufacturing and goes across the board no matter who makes them, or where you buy them from. I can make that assumption due to 7+ years of writing Blu-ray discs and 10's of thousands of discs written using different disc manufacturers. The writing surface goes all the way out to the end of the dark brown surface. There is then usually a small clear rim after that, but if that outer edge gets slightly warped during manufacturing then the outer coloured edge of the disc will distort the laser and therefore fail to burn

The reason that 1.0.3.0 gives you a warning message about the size is because in that version the shrunk size is coming out bigger than 25GB, and therefore won't fit on a SL BD-R. In the current version 1.0.3.4 the shrunk size is coming out smaller than 25GB and is failing when burning to the edge of the disc. These are 2 entirely different issues.