TOO MANY COMPLAINTS, how about some successes

[mcmenace]

For the record I wasn't singling anyone out. My comment about being respectful even in disagreement applies to everyone.

Fair enough :rock:

 

[ddjmagic]

I'm not gonna pull the trigger on a pre-owned one until I know absolutely for certain a firmware update doesn't enable cinavia. Kind of a hard question to ask LOL.

I know for sure that the BDT210 did not have Cinavia by the end of 2013, I tested it myself.
There has only been one firmware release since then and I doubt it added Cinavia, though I can't confirm that.

 

[gmac1701]

I was concerned about buying a used one for fear that a possible/probable firmware upgrade could leave me back at square 1. That's why I was thinking seriously about the brand new one in the box versus a used one. I've seen the BDT110 listed for $50 but didn't run across any pre-owned 210's, just new ones as mentioned at $200. Seems the 210 has features the 110 doesn't and didn't see any 310's. Maybe didn't dig deep enough.

Odd that the 210 sells for around $200 and the latest model in that series goes for $98 Can't say I've seen that before...could it be somebody knows something? Nah couldn't be that :disagree:

Thanks go out to you or whoever mentioned using paypal too, could make a big difference. I'm not gonna pull the trigger on a pre-owned one until I know absolutely for certain a firmware update doesn't enable cinavia. Kind of a hard question to ask LOL. Much obliged for your time and info. :clap:

I have 2 x BDT110 and they play 3d perfectly, didn't see any reason to go for the 210. Bought them for about £50 ($75) each from ebay using sellers with good feedback. They were never upgraded to support cinavia. Same with the 210, they are selling for £89 ($135) in the UK.

 

[mcmenace]

Gentlemen,

Well I opted for a new Panasonic BDT210 still in the box, manufactured in 2011. I'm concerned about buying pre-owned electronics, especially that old. Having raised 4 kids of my own and now grand-kids, I've seen them abuse just about anything they can get their hands on.

Even if not abused it could have been overused. Not knowing the seller, there's know way of telling how much life is left in it. Decided to be on the safe side and get a brand new one. Got 6 months same as cash, on a $188 purchase, so no big bite out of my check.

Thanks fella's for your help and suggestions, be up the creek without it :clap: Will let you know later this week if it ignores Cinavia. I will ignore firmware updates (if possible) or leave it disconnected from the internet if it automatically applies them.

gmac1701
They were never upgraded to support cinavia. Same with the 210,

If gmac1701 is right, and it sounds like he oughtta know, firmware not going to be an issue.

mcm

 

[Ch3vr0n]

You've got nothing to worry about on the cinavia part. If it was manufactured in 2011 that means it was licensed for BD playback in 2010 or 2011. Well before the cinavia implementation rule, even if they were to bring our a fw with cinavia detection in it, it still wouldn't be able to as it lacks the accompanying hardware to do so.

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[Roycal]

Gentlemen,

Well I opted for a new Panasonic BDT210 still in the box, manufactured in 2011. I'm concerned about buying pre-owned electronics, especially that old. Having raised 4 kids of my own and now grand-kids, I've seen them abuse just about anything they can get their hands on.

Even if not abused it could have been overused. Not knowing the seller, there's know way of telling how much life is left in it. Decided to be on the safe side and get a brand new one. Got 6 months same as cash, on a $188 purchase, so no big bite out of my check.

Thanks fella's for your help and suggestions, be up the creek without it :clap: Will let you know later this week if it ignores Cinavia. I will ignore firmware updates (if possible) or leave it disconnected from the internet if it automatically applies them. Check the firmware rev date and make sure it predates Cinavia requirements.



If gmac1701 is right, and it sounds like he oughtta know, firmware not going to be an issue.

mcm

Good luck with your new/old stock player. It's not likely even a firmware update would install Cinavia unless it is a Sony product. But just to be safe, I would not install any FW updates automatically and only install manually one rev at a time starting with the oldest if absolutely needed to make something work.
As Ch mentioned, most pre-Cinavia players do not even have the signal processor hardware needed to detect Cinavia but it's wise to be cautious.

 

[gmac1701]

They 100% don't support Cinavia even with the last firmware they produced, that's why they are so pricey especially when you can get a new BD player under £50 in the UK.
My 110's have played back every disk I have thrown at them, even the latest 3D titles, original and backup.

 

[Ch3vr0n]

There you go again. I don't need corrected, I don't need stalked, I don't need arguments. You can't copy a cinavia protected disc to play on a standalone bluray player with clonebd. If you think it can, so be it. Like I said, none of the "cin ex crap" ad nauseum, databases, etc. matters to me one way or another, none of it. It's much ado about nothing and I've moved on.

Guess you do need correcting, because YES YOU CAN copy a cinavia protected disc to play on a standalone. That's exactly what i and a lot of other users are doing and it works just fine. Nowhere on the product description page does it claim (that the current version is able) to remove cinavia. All slysoft said that at one point in the future it MAY receive an update to remove it, but that doesn't mean you can't copy discs with the current version because you can. Cinavia discs will just trigger cinavia, thats all but you can still copy them.

 

[SamuriHL]

Um, that doesn't make a lot of sense, now does it? Sure you can copy it, but what good is a copy thst triggers Cinavia?? There's no logic in arguing that.

 

[Ch3vr0n]

In my case it does, although i have cinavia free players. Copy in the true sense of the word (make a duplicate) applies. Copy as in physical backup Though i do hope they come out with a fix to the cinavia problem soon, but it'll likely be not until CloneBD is more stable.

 

[SamuriHL]

ImgBurn can copy any blu-ray in the strictest sense of the word, but, without the ability to decrypt the resulting copy, it would end up being just as useless a backup as a Cinavia laden backup on a Cinavia infested player. The ability to copy a disc is irrelevant if it can't be played back correctly. As for CloneBD's ability to remove Cinavia, I suspect we're a bit away from that happening. Having the built in ability to detect it in the stream is a great first step though. What people fail to understand about that is that it demonstrates slysoft's understanding of how the detection algorithm works. If you know how the detector works, you can devise a non destructive method of breaking it.

 

[mcmenace]

ImgBurn can copy any blu-ray in the strictest sense of the word, but, without the ability to decrypt the resulting copy, it would end up being just as useless a backup as a Cinavia laden backup on a Cinavia infested player. The ability to copy a disc is irrelevant if it can't be played back correctly. As for CloneBD's ability to remove Cinavia, I suspect we're a bit away from that happening. Having the built in ability to detect it in the stream is a great first step though. What people fail to understand about that is that it demonstrates slysoft's understanding of how the detection algorithm works. If you know how the detector works, you can devise a non destructive method of breaking it.

Well said. Now do you see what I mean about stalked. All my cinavia problems are over as I got the right player, valuable information, thanked those who helped and a certain person jumps in after the fact trying with nonsense to start an absurd argument, yelling no less (caps).

Originally Posted by mcmenace
There you go again. I don't need corrected, I don't need stalked, I don't need arguments. You can't copy a cinavia protected disc to play on a standalone bluray player with clonebd. If you think it can, so be it. Like I said, none of the "cin ex crap" ad nauseum, databases, etc. matters to me one way or another, none of it. It's much ado about nothing and I've moved on.

Ch3vr0n
Guess you do need correcting, because YES YOU CAN copy a cinavia protected disc to play on a standalone.
Cinavia discs will just trigger cinavia, thats all but you can still copy them

Really? That's what triggered this thing days ago. Trying to prolong a dead subject. I don't know if he sits there and scans for my posts then jumps in or what, those last comments serve no purpose but provocation. He just won't let up and always has to have the last word like he knows it ALL. As you, yourself has seen, not the case.....

BTW, FYI, I was informed by slysoft support....

It would then be a job for a copy software to actively find and remove the watermark, but this is not possible at the moment and will not be accomplished by CloneBD, as CloneBD is a "clean" product and will not break any protection or remove any kind of watermark.

Rest assured that we are working hard on finding a solution for this problem. This issue is really nagging us.

So, as you can see, and Ch has seen it, as I've put it here previously, cloneBD will **never** deal with cinavia, leaving anyDVD or an as yet unknown product to deal with it.

 

[mcmenace]

100% don't support Cinavia even with the last firmware they produced, that's why they are so pricey especially when you can get a new BD player under £50 in the UK.
My 110's have played back every disk I have thrown at them, even the latest 3D titles, original and backup.

Same with the 210, they are selling for £89 ($135) in the UK.

Well I paid $188 for a new in the box, 210, with 6 months same a cash so not a terribly bad deal. New players can be had for under $50 here but won't deal with cinavia.

Roycal Good luck with your new/old stock player. It's not likely even a firmware update would install Cinavia unless it is a Sony product. But just to be safe, I would not install any FW updates automatically and only install manually one rev at a time starting with the oldest if absolutely needed to make something work.
As Ch mentioned, most pre-Cinavia players do not even have the signal processor hardware needed to detect Cinavia but it's wise to be cautious.

Thank you guys for your invaluable help. Problems with cinavia are over.

 

[SamuriHL]

BTW, FYI, I was informed by slysoft support....

It would then be a job for a copy software to actively find and remove the watermark, but this is not possible at the moment and will not be accomplished by CloneBD, as CloneBD is a "clean" product and will not break any protection or remove any kind of watermark.

Rest assured that we are working hard on finding a solution for this problem. This issue is really nagging us.

So, as you can see, and Ch has seen it, as I've put it here previously, cloneBD will **never** deal with cinavia, leaving anyDVD or an as yet unknown product to deal with it.

That is contrary to statements SlySoft has said before about CloneBD. Given that it's from SlySoft support, I doubt very much anyone will comment on it publicly, but, it would be good to get clarification on that as it is definitely not what was said before. It was always stated that CloneBD, as some future point, would remove Cinavia once a solution for doing so was found. So that is definitely a bit confusing and contradictory to previous information we've gotten.

 

[Ch3vr0n]

I was made aware by my contact in slysoft early last week that cloneBD would never deal with cinavia because of its 100% legal status. But I was asked to keep that info confidential at the time. Since they asked me that and I do not work for them, or was not my place to divulge that information.

But since you now have posted that all I can say is that they still are working on a solution to the problem. But being able to detect the signal is a start to the fix, since you can't remove something if you can't detect it ;-)

It will likely be an add-on software that will do that is my guess, I have no official information on that. I do hope that however they do it, it does not require the user to download a 'cinavia removal database file' a few 100MB in size. With the number of cinavia infected movies steadily increasing, for a movie collector that could mean significant total download size.

Personally I don't care if that would mean a slower processing time, if can take as long as it needs to for all I care. As long as it doesn't need a downloaded file to be loaded into the application.

Now on your 'personal comment' about me.

- I'm not trying to prolong anything
- I don't sit here and scan for your posts (or anyone's for that matter) waiting to jump in
- I do let up, don't need to have the last word and I definitely don't know it all. If that were the case I'd definitely have a well paying job.

So I would suggest we drop the past 'issues' and move on from here. Since it is out in the wild now that cloneBD will not deal with cinavia but 'something else' will. The question now is what will that 'something' be?

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[ddjmagic]

Since it is out in the wild now that cloneBD will not deal with cinavia but 'something else' will.

That's a shame

 

[mcmenace]

That is contrary to statements SlySoft has said before about CloneBD. Given that it's from SlySoft support, I doubt very much anyone will comment on it publicly, but, it would be good to get clarification on that as it is definitely not what was said before. It was always stated that CloneBD, as some future point, would remove Cinavia once a solution for doing so was found. So that is definitely a bit confusing and contradictory to previous information we've gotten.

I can understand them wanting to have cloneBD remain a "clean" product, ala cloneDVD, no copyright issues with either. Since it's spread to standard DVD's as well, whatever they come up with will have to handle both, another reason not to use cloneBD. I'm not trying to get anyone in trouble, but that did come directly from support and whomever didn't say to keep it quiet.

 

[mcmenace]

That's a shame

Another reason I got the BDT-210. The support person said it's "really nagging them" but that doesn't mean a solution is imminent. BTW, if anybody following this want to consider the Panasonic 210, I got it new from Amazon yesterday for $188 and 6 months interest free to pay, with no money down. Problem is only 6 remain.

 

[Ch3vr0n]

you won't get me in trouble, if that's what you mean. After all i didn't first post it , and if they didn't ask you to keep that intel private then they can't get you in trouble too either You are right (and it's my guess too) that the implementation of cinavia on DVD's may have been another reason not to use CloneBD. After all that would require additional workload in the software design, make code more complex potentially creating issues, and likely demand a namechange (CloneBDVD?? )? Though spread of it on DVD's is even smaller than on BD's, Sony was and still is pretty much the only user of it.

Now i'm probably as curious as you are as to how they will tackle the issue of actually removing it and which product it will be. I'll definitely keep my eye on any new of it.

As SamuriHL said, it was initially stated (pretty much from the early news of CloneBD) that cloneBD would eventually receive an update to do it. However they've also said from the start that this was not a fact and could change at any time, which now it has. Any type of product development encounters bumps in the road and design changes, it would seem that the change to drop cinavia removal support would be one of those bumps and/or design changes.

But i'm pretty sure you'll agree with me that cloneBD atleast being able to DETECT it is a step in the right direction, you first have to detect something before you can remove it. Now the issue at hand is, what will slysoft's answer be to that Cinex thing and when will we see signs of it? One can only hope "soon(tm)".

** edit ** and as many others did, i already had a Panasonic DMP-BD85 but when i started with 3D i picked myself up a DMP-BDT110. Neither have cinavia to worry about and play just about everything you throw at it.

 

[mcmenace]

So I would suggest we drop the past 'issues' and move on from here.

Suggested that once, then the cloneBD backs up cinavia comment.

Also stated life too short for things that don't really matter, like above statement. Everybody knows if it does it's useless anyway unless one has an older unit, pre-cinavia.

That said, willing to bury the hatchet once more. It takes two though, please keep that in mind and stop yelling at me and things of that nature. I was taught to respect my elders.

you won't get me in trouble, if that's what you mean. After all i didn't first post it , and if they didn't ask you to keep that intel private then they can't get you in trouble too either You are right (and it's my guess too) that the implementation of cinavia on DVD's may have been another reason not to use CloneBD. After all that would require additional workload in the software design, make code more complex potentially creating issues, and likely demand a namechange (CloneBDVD?? )? Though spread of it on DVD's is even smaller than on BD's, Sony was and still is pretty much the only user of it.

Not unless you work for tech support and were told not to say anything The spread of cinavia could be on any bluray now dvd that sony not only makes but distributes as I saw on Equalizer, which is a Universal movie distributed by Sony (follow the path on IMDB if you wanna see how it came about).

So it's gonna spread, my guess is sooner than later as I've already saw it on non Sony movies (Equalizer) and now DVD's (Ouija) Hence the purchase of the BDT210. They'll all soon enough, if not already realize the problems it's causing, although I have no idea as to the cost or ramifications of implementing it vs not bothering.