Resolution question with AP

[wright96d]

No customer deserves to be burned for paying money and supporting the product/development team.

You're right. But my point is, if someone is buying this product, they should be using the trial first. It's not as if the trial hasn't been affected by these issues. If someone is using the trial, they'll be well aware of the lack of HD.

 

[DrXenos]

Difference between PAL / NTSC and Secam is not the resolution. There are use different framerate (because the electrical frequency). PAL for example 25 fps, NTSC 29.9 or movies 23.97 etc. but nowadays all TV and Computer manage all standard and unstandardized framerates.

Not true, PAL and NTSC are color encoding schemes, and yes, these standards do define resolution (PAL is higher). The frame rates are more because of AC frequency of the countries either standard is used in.

 

[drambuie]

I have nothing to do with Plex but I use the 720p resolution for everything, even before 1080p was gone I used 720P because it looks fine and the file is 1/4 the size.

With some film sources, all you are getting with 1080p over 720p is more film grain and no extra image detail. Before Prime went SD, some 1080p content there was significantly larger file size compared to the same length 1080p content on Netflix, but riddled with film grain exaggerated by compression artifacts (mosquito noise) created by that film grain. I have wondered if Prime's encoding might be a bit inefficient.

 

[wright96d]

With some film sources, all you are getting with 1080p over 720p is more film grain and no extra image detail. Before Prime went SD, some 1080p content there was significantly larger file size compared to the same length 1080p content on Netflix, but riddled with film grain exaggerated by compression artifacts (mosquito noise) created by that film grain. I have wondered if Prime's encoding might be a bit inefficient.

If the 1080p content on Amazon is riddled with film grain and mosquito noise, then that's closer to how the actual source looks. Netflix encodes are so low bitrate that it doesn't matter how efficient the codec is, they're not going to be better than the higher bitrate encodes on Amazon.

 

[RedFox 1]

This part needs to be re-worded temporarily until it is fixed:

Anysteam

Features:

• Amazon Prime download supported up to Full HD (1920x1080)

If this is not re-worded, and HD downloads for AP stay down for awhile, then I feel the devs are not being fair towards new buyers. I bought lifetime license for mainly AP downloads just a few days ago. Technically, I did not get burned since AP HD downloads worked the day I purchased the product. But I would be upset if I spent that amount of money on a product and this advertised feature did not work on day one. Having a free trial period does not excuse false advertisement for this feature that is not included.

I understands that HD downloads being down is not Red Fox's fault, but it is their duty to accurately describe product features for new buyers. My request is very reasonable for current/future buyers of this program. It is not like I am requesting something crazy and difficult for Red Fox to do in this situation.

This will be done in due time, if it has to be done at all.

 

[RedFox 1]

You're right. But my point is, if someone is buying this product, they should be using the trial first. It's not as if the trial hasn't been affected by these issues. If someone is using the trial, they'll be well aware of the lack of HD.

Anystream still offers HD content.

 

[wright96d]

This will be done in due time, if it has to be done at all.

It's already been done.

Anystream still offers HD content.

Clearly I meant Amazon.

 

[lajoes]

I found this thread very interesting while waiting for AS to be patched. Until the HD issue with AZ is figured out, I'm looking at the older flicks that are only offered in SD. But I do have a question about some video resolutions that no one mentioned: are any of the resolutions in the attached file NTSC?

 

[Ch3vr0n]

Resolutions and PAL/NTSC aren't the same thing.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Wowfunhappy]

^ It's true though that they completely skip over 480p, which is probably what lajoes meant. That's very mildly interesting.

I think what's going on here is, actual 480p screens usually have a 4:3 aspect ratio. That means you'd need to add black bars, and assuming the content is 16:9 that would leave you with 360 usable lines. And... look at that, 640x360 is an option!

 

[Lowpro]

What is the difference between the NTSC and PAL Video standard?
SD Video that is intended for viewing on a television, whether on a tape, a DVD, or delivered via satellite or cable, needs to meet the standards of the country in which it will be viewed (NTSC countries 60hz, PAL 50hz). In North America, that is NTSC, (National Television System Committee). NTSC video is 29.97 frames per second or fps, at a size of 720x486. The NTSC standard is also used in other countries including Japan, South Korea, and most of Central and South America. Europe, China, Australia, and most other Asian countries use another standard known as PAL (Phase Alternation Line). PAL video is 25 fps, at a size of 768x576. There is a third standard called SECAM, (Sequential Couleur Avec Memoire). There is not a SECAM standard for DVD. Countries using the SECAM standard use PAL for DVDs. The internet has several sources for NTSC/PAL listings of counties and the corresponding standard.

*Most PAL players should play an NTSC DVD but most NTSC players will not play a PAL disc. There are some specialty NTSC devices that can play PAL discs but they are the exception. All computers will play both as long as the region code is not restricting playback.

Do I need to worry about NTSC and PAL with Blu-ray discs?
Yes. NTSC and PAL use different FPS (frames per second) rates. But the Blu-ray specification clearly defines what frame rates players must support. All PAL players must support frame rates of 23.976, 24, 24.97, 25, 29.97, 30, 50, 59.94, and 60 but NTSC only need to support 23.976, 24, 29.97, 30, 59.94, and 60 fps. To create a Blu-ray compatible in all players keep your frame rate at 23.976, 24, 29.97, 30, 59.94, or 60 fps. Other considerations that may affect compatibility are Region Codes. Please refer to that section for more details.

 

[lajoes]

That's a lot to absorb, so let's see if I understand this:

1. NTSC vs PAL my biggest concern would be "frame rates". I've had to buy PAL DVD & BD discs because the movie wasn't available here in the states. As far as viewing goes, as long as I don't tell anyone that before showing it, they don't notice any difference. My disc players are Samsung and OPPO regional free.

2. Download Resolutions as available via AS means: The higher the resolution the better the picture quality then? I'm not worried if there are black bars on the sides for older movies/shows because they look better than if they were stretched to 16:9.

Everyone's responses have helped me grasp the difference tween NTSC & PAL, but I think #2 (about picture quality) is the question that I need to get a better understanding of as it relates to which resolution to select for the best picture.

I appreciate you guys taking the time to educate me on this!

 

[DrXenos]

That's a lot to absorb, so let's see if I understand this:

1. NTSC vs PAL my biggest concern would be "frame rates". I've had to buy PAL DVD & BD discs because the movie wasn't available here in the states. As far as viewing goes, as long as I don't tell anyone that before showing it, they don't notice any difference. My disc players are Samsung and OPPO regional free.

2. Download Resolutions as available via AS means: The higher the resolution the better the picture quality then? I'm not worried if there are black bars on the sides for older movies/shows because they look better than if they were stretched to 16:9.

Everyone's responses have helped me grasp the difference tween NTSC & PAL, but I think #2 (about picture quality) is the question that I need to get a better understanding of as it relates to which resolution to select for the best picture.

I appreciate you guys taking the time to educate me on this!

You biggest concern should not be frame rate. It should be, will your equipment support the disc you want to purchase. In the DVD days, I had (still have) an Oppo that would
play anything (any format, any region). It was awesome.

As I said before, the frame rate has more to do with the source country (and the AC frequency they use) than whether its NTSC or PAL.

Typically, with Blu-ray, you don't have to worry because most are either NTSC or PAL. This is nice because most often they will be in the original frame rate of the source material. You have to be careful, though, because (like everything) there are exceptions. There is one TV show I like where I purchase the UK versions because they are in the original frame rate, where as the US ones are converted to 23.976 (it's a British show).

When I choose a disc, I try to get one that's in the original frame rate, aspect ratio, etc., regardless of what that is.

Found this on Wikipedia and thought it might help you:
"The term PAL was often used informally and somewhat imprecisely to refer to the 625-line/50 Hz (576i) television system in general, to differentiate from the 525-line/60 Hz (480i) system generally used with NTSC. Accordingly, DVDs were labelled as PAL or NTSC (referring to the line count and frame rate) even though technically the discs carry neither PAL nor NTSC encoded signal. CCIR 625/50 and EIA 525/60 are the proper names for these (line count and field rate) standards; PAL and NTSC on the other hand are methods of encoding colour information in the signal."

 

[Lowpro]

Download Resolutions as available via AS means: The higher the resolution the better the picture quality then? I'm not worried if there are black bars on the sides for older movies/shows because they look better than if they were stretched to 16:9.

For a given streaming selection the same source is used. The source is just down-converted for the lower resolution options so yes, for best picture quality download the highest resolution option. The more dense the pixel structure the better the quality will be. As for aspect ratios, content is shot in all sorts of different aspect ratios. Consumer 2K and 4K displays have an aspect ratio of 1.78:1 more commonly know at 16:9, the standard for HD broadcasts. If the correct proportions are maintained you'll have black bars above and below the feature presentation for aspect ratios north of 1.78:1. If the aspect ratio is south of 1.78:1 you'll have black bars on the left and right sides instead. (The standard for SD broadcasts is 1.33:1 more commonly know as 4:3.) If the content is an SD source that's not enhanced for widescreen displays with an aspect ratio other than 1.78:1 you'll have black bars on the left and right and top and bottom.

See the link below for some common aspect ratios and their pixel resolutions.
Aspect Ratio Cheat Sheet

In my case I author all my AnyStream downloads to Blu-ray. For Blu-ray compliance the given video must have a resolution of 1920x1080, i.e. 1.78:1 (16:9). This requirement was made part of the Blu-ray standard to help ensure the given presentation is always displayed correctly on consumer displays, the original proportions of the presentation being maintained. As such, if I download a video with a resolution of 1920x800 (2.40:1) for example, when authoring to Blu-ray I have to matte the 1920x800 (2.40:1) presentation to 1920x1080 (1.78:1). To do that I add black bars (140 pixels in height) to each frame of the video above and below the image.

With streaming there are no standards in this regard. The aspect ratio of the given display someone is using is not considered. It's assumed that the device and display will by default maintain the proper proportions when displaying the given video. This is not always the case though as I've read numerous forum posts here and there online over the years and even recently where someone is having an issue with a given video being stretched vertically for example when it shouldn't be, the given device failing to display the black bars above and below the video.

That being said, in my experience so far I've found that most streaming/digital downloads do not include the black bars in cases where the aspect ratio is something other than 1.78:1 (16:9). The file size is smaller as a result. This is presumably one of the reasons why. I've encountered exceptions to this however. The most notable so far is with streaming titles only available to rent via Amazon Prime. A number of the streaming rentals I've downloaded with AnyStream, when the presentation has been in something other than 1.78:1, the video has been matted to 1.78:1 (1920x1080), i.e. the black bars are part of the video. I suspect this is done to better control the outcome for rental customers ensuring the given presentation is displayed correctly. I've also encountered a number of Netflix titles where the video includes the black bars as well. Of course I love it when the black bars are already part of the video. That means I don't have to add them myself when authoring to Blu-ray.

 

[lajoes]

For a given streaming selection the same source is used. The source is just down-converted for the lower resolution options so yes, for best picture quality download the highest resolution option. The more dense the pixel structure the better the quality will be. As for aspect ratios, content is shot in all sorts of different aspect ratios. Consumer 2K and 4K displays have an aspect ratio of 1.78:1 more commonly know at 16:9, the standard for HD broadcasts. If the correct proportions are maintained you'll have black bars above and below the feature presentation for aspect ratios north of 1.78:1. If the aspect ratio is south of 1.78:1 you'll have black bars on the left and right sides instead. (The standard for SD broadcasts is 1.33:1 more commonly know as 4:3.) If the content is an SD source that's not enhanced for widescreen displays with an aspect ratio other than 1.78:1 you'll have black bars on the left and right and top and bottom.

See the link below for some common aspect ratios and their pixel resolutions.
Aspect Ratio Cheat Sheet

In my case I author all my AnyStream downloads to Blu-ray. For Blu-ray compliance the given video must have a resolution of 1920x1080, i.e. 1.78:1 (16:9). This requirement was made part of the Blu-ray standard to help ensure the given presentation is always displayed correctly on consumer displays, the original proportions of the presentation being maintained. As such, if I download a video with a resolution of 1920x800 (2.40:1) for example, when authoring to Blu-ray I have to matte the 1920x800 (2.40:1) presentation to 1920x1080 (1.78:1). To do that I add black bars (140 pixels in height) to each frame of the video above and below the image.

With streaming there are no standards in this regard. The aspect ratio of the given display someone is using is not considered. It's assumed that the device and display will by default maintain the proper proportions when displaying the given video. This is not always the case though as I've read numerous forum posts here and there online over the years and even recently where someone is having an issue with a given video being stretched vertically for example when it shouldn't be, the given device failing to display the black bars above and below the video.

That being said, in my experience so far I've found that most streaming/digital downloads do not include the black bars in cases where the aspect ratio is something other than 1.78:1 (16:9). The file size is smaller as a result. This is presumably one of the reasons why. I've encountered exceptions to this however. The most notable so far is with streaming titles only available to rent via Amazon Prime. A number of the streaming rentals I've downloaded with AnyStream, when the presentation has been in something other than 1.78:1, the video has been matted to 1.78:1 (1920x1080), i.e. the black bars are part of the video. I suspect this is done to better control the outcome for rental customers ensuring the given presentation is displayed correctly. I've also encountered a number of Netflix titles where the video includes the black bars as well. Of course I love it when the black bars are already part of the video. That means I don't have to add them myself when authoring to Blu-ray.

Thanks for assuring me that I was right about getting a better quality picture by downloading the higher resolutions. For a moment there, after reading some posts here and there, I thought they were trying to "inform" everyone that those were just exotic formats (4:33, 7:22, 12:xx, 24:xx, etc).

As for the black bars showing during playback, I like them rather than having the picture stretched to the frame!

But now you've created another topic for me to question: how do you add the black bars when you are authoring? Are you actually burning a disc? I've downloaded rentals and streams from AZ and NF at 1920x800 and 1920x1080.

 

[DrXenos]

Thanks for assuring me that I was right about getting a better quality picture by downloading the higher resolutions. For a moment there, after reading some posts here and there, I thought they were trying to "inform" everyone that those were just exotic formats (4:33, 7:22, 12:xx, 24:xx, etc).

As for the black bars showing during playback, I like them rather than having the picture stretched to the frame!

But now you've created another topic for me to question: how do you add the black bars when you are authoring? Are you actually burning a disc? I've downloaded rentals and streams from AZ and NF at 1920x800 and 1920x1080.

You can add the black bars with Handbrake, but I wouldn't do that. If you transcode as anamorphic, you can use the space normally taken up be the black bars to save more of the original information and have a higher quality result.

Additional, you can configure your equipment to remove the black bars and expand the image on the screen (without distorting the proper aspect ratio).

 

[lajoes]

You biggest concern should not be frame rate. It should be, will your equipment support the disc you want to purchase. In the DVD days, I had (still have) an Oppo that would
play anything (any format, any region). It was awesome.

As I said before, the frame rate has more to do with the source country (and the AC frequency they use) than whether its NTSC or PAL.

Typically, with Blu-ray, you don't have to worry because most are either NTSC or PAL. This is nice because most often they will be in the original frame rate of the source material. You have to be careful, though, because (like everything) there are exceptions. There is one TV show I like where I purchase the UK versions because they are in the original frame rate, where as the US ones are converted to 23.976 (it's a British show).

When I choose a disc, I try to get one that's in the original frame rate, aspect ratio, etc., regardless of what that is.

Found this on Wikipedia and thought it might help you:
"The term PAL was often used informally and somewhat imprecisely to refer to the 625-line/50 Hz (576i) television system in general, to differentiate from the 525-line/60 Hz (480i) system generally used with NTSC. Accordingly, DVDs were labelled as PAL or NTSC (referring to the line count and frame rate) even though technically the discs carry neither PAL nor NTSC encoded signal. CCIR 625/50 and EIA 525/60 are the proper names for these (line count and field rate) standards; PAL and NTSC on the other hand are methods of encoding colour information in the signal."

Once again DrXenos, it appears that I am on the right track and going in the right direction with my hobby here. I too try to purchase the disc to match the original source.

And thanks for the Wikipedia info. I keep forgetting that there are two definitions to remember about NTSC & PAL and their broadcast standards.

 

[Lowpro]

You biggest concern should not be frame rate. It should be, will your equipment support the disc you want to purchase. In the DVD days, I had (still have) an Oppo that would
play anything (any format, any region). It was awesome."

I live in the United States. None of my Blu-ray players support 50hz content. My plasma doesn't support 50hz content either. My projector does though. As such, I have to be careful when importing Blu-ray's from across the pond, especially with respects to TV series content which will often be presented on Blu-ray in 1080i/50 rather than 1080p/24 or 1080p/23.976. I purchased the TV series, "Caprica" on Blu-ray from France a few years back. It's presented in 1080i/50 even though the cover art says 1080p. Still disappointed about that. I have all my DVD's and Blu-ray's stored for playback in Sony 400-disc Blu-ray Players. For "Caprica" I have to drop the given disc in my HTPC's external Blu-ray drive or my PS4 which converts 50hz content to 60hz, so at least I have a workaround.

 

[lajoes]

Good to know hacks!

And I too have been disappointed with some of my overseas purchases too. Now, I will message the seller about that before purchasing, unless, like you, it is the only way to complete a collection.

 

[lajoes]

One of the biggest things I got from all of you is the difference between AS resolution download options vs NTSC/PAL.

I'm glad I wasn't just filling up disc space with some exotic format size but actually getting a better quality picture.

And all the info about how to start streaming and the best format(s) to use.