Bluray titles w/ TrueHD and 5.1 PCM do not work over SPDIF

Discussion in 'AnyDVD HD (Blu-ray issues)' started by bachuka, Aug 11, 2007.

  1. bachuka

    bachuka Well-Known Member

    I ran across two weird bluray title....ghost rider and stomp the yard. If you go into audio options, you only have two options, TrueHD or 5.1 PCM (uncompressed). Usually there is a 5.1 Dolby Digital option. It defaults to TrueHD sound. The problem with both of these formats is that it only outputs 2.1 over SPDIF.

    The only work around I know besides going to analog sound is to choose 5.1 pcm (uncompressed) sound. While the movie is playing, go to pdvd config choose audio and then s/pdif mixing and select mixing - dts. Then you'll get 5.1 sound however 1) it does not sound as good because I think of the mixing and 2) its a pain in the a#%. I like to be able to do this with my PC remote.

    Also, if you leave the setting on PDVD as s/pdif mixing, and you launch another movie, it goes back to 2 speakers and not spdif. You have to go back to pdvd, switch to spdif. The s/pdif mixing only works with these two particular bluray movies.

    Weird and annoying.
     
  2. James

    James Redfox Development Team Staff Member

    You can use an Auzentech soundcard with Dolby Digital-Live or DTS-Connect encoder, then you can leave PowerDVD set to analog output and still use only a digital connection to your receiver.
     
  3. bachuka

    bachuka Well-Known Member

    That does sound pretty cool...which model would you recommend from Auzentech...I have not ever tried their soundcards. Will 6.1 sound work over the digital connection if you choose analog output on PDVD?
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2007
  4. James

    James Redfox Development Team Staff Member

    X-Plosion is the cheapest with DTS-Interactive, so I took this one and I am quite happy. You only have to remove the control panel startup from autorun in the registry, otherwise it will reset your speaker configuration to 2 speakers everytime you boot... :mad:
    But I can live without the C-Media audio control in the task bar.
    Sound quality is pretty impressive even when using the analog outputs.

    EDIT: I am running XP, not Vista.
     
  5. Humpa

    Humpa Well-Known Member

    "even when using the analog outputs"?
    That's the best possible sound! Since you can't get truehd over spdif, the only option currently is to use 6 (or 8 ) analog outputs. That's what I do with my auzentech meridian. I love the sound. Even my wav files sound fantastic - better than they ever did with my various soundblaster or turtlebeach cards.
     
  6. James

    James Redfox Development Team Staff Member

    I know. But a lot of (even expensive) soundcards have distortions on the analog lines (which the Auzentch cards do not have).
    What I meant was "it even sounds good when using the analog outputs" (not like the motherboard sound, and even if this card is purchased because of the realtime DTS encoder).
    Further, most amps / receivers don't have bass management or any other post processing on the multi channel analog inputs, which can be a major pain. PowerDVD bass management? Ha, ha. The NVidia PureVideo decoder does it properly (I use it with ZoomPlayer), but this doesn't help with HD DVD or Blu-ray. Unless you have a really expensive amp (like the big Denons or Onkyos) you're probably better off when using a digital connection, even if the transmission isn't lossless. And 1.5MB/s DTS really isn't that bad (and 640kb/s Dolby Digital isn't that bad either, I was really surprised that I couldn't hear the difference betweeen Dolby Digital Live and DTS Interactive).
     
  7. Humpa

    Humpa Well-Known Member

    could you speak more of the bass management?
    I forgot about that, but noticed that I didn't have as much bass out of my sub-woofer as I do when playing normal DTS or 5.1 dvd's via spdif from my dvd player. I was going to drop a grand on new receiver, but built an HTPC insted (though that price tag keeps going up!!) - I just have an old yamaha htr-5250

    I'm still rather new to the HTPC world, and though I have a good collection of high-def movies building up, I haven't really watched that many of them yet. I'm more of a techie and get more enjoyment out of building things than actually using them. :rolleyes:
     
  8. James

    James Redfox Development Team Staff Member

    Sure. If you have a 5.1 or 7.1 speaker set with "small" satellites, you usually divert the very low frequencies (e.g., below 100 Hz) from every satellite to the subwoofer. This is fine, as the human ear cannot locate the direction of very low frequencies. Without bass management the low frequencies have to be played by the small speakers and that sucks as you have experienced yourself.
    Try this:
    Set the Meridian to "DTS Connect" in the Auzentech Control panel (as I said, is it wise to remove it from HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run, assuming it has the same bug as my X-Plosion, but you don't need to do this just for a quick test)
    If the Yamaha is set up correctly (set the speaker configuration to "small" speakers) you will hear the missing bass. I am sure that some movies will now blow you away which previously sounded "thin".
     
  9. Humpa

    Humpa Well-Known Member

    thanks ... I do have my speakers set to small. But I'll try some of the other settings as well - like "Bass Out", which is set to Both as opposed to SW or Main.
    And I'll check out that bug you mentioned with the DTS Connect, and I'll remove it from the HKLM Run menu if I need to.

    Thanks - I'll let you know how I fared.
     
  10. James

    James Redfox Development Team Staff Member

    The problem is - the analog inputs on your Yamaha are (very likely) only 1:1 "pass through". In this (very likely) case you can play with the bass management options of your Yamaha as long as you want, it won't have any effect.
    Using the the "DTS Connect" feature the Yamaha suddenly "knows what to do", and bass management will work. (You need a digital connection to your amp, of course).
     
  11. Humpa

    Humpa Well-Known Member

    hmmmm ... on the meridian it is called DTS Interactive (it can convert any LPCM to DTS).
    I thought I was going to have to hook up my digital connection, but I already had coax hooked up. If I toggle between 6 channel analog and DTS Interactive (and of course toggle my amp between analog and the digital coax in) the analog sounds dramatically better - better bass as well (even after adjusting the volume, I have to turn up the coax volume to equal the analog). Perhaps I was thinking of something else that didn't have good bass. I'd like to do some more tests though - do you have any thoughts of what might be a good movie or scene to use as a test? I'll go and rent it or buy it - but here's what I have available to me if you want to take a look:
    www.humpa.com/humpa_dvd?type=hd
     
  12. Datus

    Datus Well-Known Member

  13. James

    James Redfox Development Team Staff Member

    Doesn't really help. Even if the digital port supports True HD, no one else does. And no one needs a True HD bitstream. What we need is a soundcard with 7.1 Linear PCM output over a fast digital port like HDMI, best thing would be a graphics card / sound card combo. AMD/ATI tried with their Radeon 2000 series, but from what I heard it doesn't support 5.1/7.1 PCM :doh:
     
  14. James

    James Redfox Development Team Staff Member

    Well, if the analog output works fine for you, wonderful! Maybe PowerDVD has working bass management now, haven't used 1:1 analog for a while. Maybe your Yamaha has bass management on the analog multi channel in. Only your operating manual knows.
    Anyway, if you are happy, just leave it like it is. :agree:
     
  15. Humpa

    Humpa Well-Known Member

    My Yamaha doesn't have any Bass Management in the analog mode. At least that's what I'm assuming, since per the manual the speaker size settings are ignored/do not function in 6 channel analog mode.

    I don't see any bass management functions in powerDVD - just the db controls for the front/center/rear/sub outputs and the CLMEI-2 mode (whatever that is).
    But the bass management settings on the auzentech meridian work - I have my speakers set to small and the LFE crossover setting works too. I can hear the difference when I slide that accross the 50-250Hz frequency range - or when I switch off Flex Bass (which is what they call those bass management settings).

    I just did some more tests with 300 in my dvd player and the 300 HDDVD on my pc. That made it a lot easier to go back and forth between the 2 sources while playing them in sync.
    Though that is not a very fair comparison, considering the 300 dvd only has 5.1 and no DTS available, and the HD has TrueHD. There was no comparison - not on any aspect of the audio. Dynamic range, separation, clarity, bass, were all dramatically better from the pc.

    I guess I can hold off a while longer before upgrading my receiver and jbl's. I live in an apartment anyway, so no sense getting something I won't be able to fully enjoy (especially considering that's what I'm already doing). :rolleyes:
     
  16. James

    James Redfox Development Team Staff Member

    Ah, I understand! If the meridian does have a variable bass redirection, that's great! I remember the Creative cards had such an option (SB Live! and Audigy), I am quite sure the X-Mystique and X-Plosion don't (or I haven't found it).
     
  17. Humpa

    Humpa Well-Known Member

    Glad I got the meridian then. :D
    It is one of the main tabs - Flex Bass
     
  18. bachuka

    bachuka Well-Known Member

    Ok, let's say I set PDVD to analog and use the auzentech to connect to my receiver via a digital connection, now if I play a 6.1 movie will the Dolby Digital Live or DTS Connect encoder down convert it to a 5.1 signal?
     
  19. James

    James Redfox Development Team Staff Member

    It doesn't have to, if you set PowerDVD to 6 speakers (5.1).
     
  20. James

    James Redfox Development Team Staff Member

    I found a similar setting with X-Mystique / X-Plosion. It is a well hidden checkbox called "bass enhancement" which seems to enable the low frequency redirection. But you can't make any adjustments, just "on" or "off".