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Bluray titles w/ TrueHD and 5.1 PCM do not work over SPDIF

It doesn't have to, if you set PowerDVD to 6 speakers (5.1).

In my case, I have a 7.1 setup so I would want to set PDVD to 8 speakers. I'm just curious for the few movies like Gladiator which is 6.1 dobly digital EX will DDL or DTS Connect take that signal and down convert it to 5.1.
 
In my case, I have a 7.1 setup so I would want to set PDVD to 8 speakers. I'm just curious for the few movies like Gladiator which is 6.1 dobly digital EX will DDL or DTS Connect take that signal and down convert it to 5.1.
DD 6.1 EX doesn't need to be downconverted, it already is (there is no 6th channel, it is encoded in the 2 surround channels)
If you use DTS Interactive, you suddenly only have 5.1 speakers (from the compters point of view), the Auzentech cards can only encode 6 channels.
But your amp (if it is a decent one) will "upconvert" the missing back channels using either DD-ProLogix IIx, or DD-EX, or DTS-ES or whatever this is called.
If you have a discrete back channel, this signal will probably be lost or mixed into the surround channels by PowerDVD.
 
Correct, you'll need one of these babies to decode TrueHD right from the SPDIF:



It's not a bug, you need the decoder on the receiver or it will have to be converted to AC3 before it gets to the SPIDIF.

I ran across two weird bluray title....ghost rider and stomp the yard. If you go into audio options, you only have two options, TrueHD or 5.1 PCM (uncompressed). Usually there is a 5.1 Dolby Digital option. It defaults to TrueHD sound. The problem with both of these formats is that it only outputs 2.1 over SPDIF.

The only work around I know besides going to analog sound is to choose 5.1 pcm (uncompressed) sound. While the movie is playing, go to pdvd config choose audio and then s/pdif mixing and select mixing - dts. Then you'll get 5.1 sound however 1) it does not sound as good because I think of the mixing and 2) its a pain in the a#%. I like to be able to do this with my PC remote.

Also, if you leave the setting on PDVD as s/pdif mixing, and you launch another movie, it goes back to 2 speakers and not spdif. You have to go back to pdvd, switch to spdif. The s/pdif mixing only works with these two particular bluray movies.

Weird and annoying.
 
Correct, you'll need one of these babies to decode TrueHD right from the SPDIF:

It's not a bug, you need the decoder on the receiver or it will have to be converted to AC3 before it gets to the SPIDIF.

Thanks guys.

NesNYC, If I get a receiver like this will it play 6.1 or even the upcoming 7.1 titles from Bluray over SPDIF or will I have to use the analog inputs?
 
Look at the logos on the front, they will decode everything from SPIDIF. But you may want to make sure it will do the 7.1 first or wait until the next versions are out. I'm going to get this one but only after the price drops a bit.

Thanks guys.

NesNYC, If I get a receiver like this will it play 6.1 or even the upcoming 7.1 titles from Bluray over SPDIF or will I have to use the analog inputs?
 
Look at the logos on the front, they will decode everything from SPIDIF.

AFAIK, you will not be able to send TrueHD or DTS HD via SPDIF. The bandwidth of Spdif is not sufficient for the new sound formats. You will need an HDMI connection for that.
 
AFAIK, you will not be able to send TrueHD or DTS HD via SPDIF. The bandwidth of Spdif is not sufficient for the new sound formats. You will need an HDMI connection for that.
Correct. And you don't *want* this anyway, because if you send the encoded bitstream instead of LPCM, there is no way that the player can mix tracks or add button sounds....
IMHO TrueHD or DTS HD or DD+ or (pick any HD sound format) decoding in the amp is a waste of money.
 
As James said earlier, it is better let the player do all decoding and mixing. "The player", as I understand, could be both software player, like PowerDVD, which outputs via sound card, or standalone player. This is actually quite reasonable.

Why are then receivers like one pictured above (the latest Sony model) needed at all, i.e. why all this new decoding functionality is added to them? It should be just an amplifier then (maybe with some sound processing functionality), which receives 7.1 LPCM signal via HDMI, amplifies it, and otputs to speakers.

P.S.: I wrote this before I saw the previous post from James.
 
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Look at the logos on the front, they will decode everything from SPIDIF.
Absolutely not true. When it comes to multichannel, SPDIF is [and always will be] limited to legacy codecs: Dolby Digital (incl. EX) and DTS (incl. ES and 96/24).

If you want to hear multichannel audio from Dolby Digital Plus, DTS-HD (non-core HR or MA) or Dolby TrueHD, here are your choices:

1) Decoded by player into PCM and transmitted over HDMI (1.0 or higher) to an A/V receiver
2) Decoded by player into PCM and transmitted over 5.1/7.1 analog connection to an A/V receiver
3) Transmitted over HDMI 1.3 as original bitstream to be decoded by the A/V receiver. Both the player and the A/V receiver need to be HDMI 1.3 or higher.

At this very moment there's not a single Blu-ray or HD DVD player in existence that can do option #3. Samsung 1200 has the necessary hardware, but the feature has not been enabled in its fimware. Same thing with Toshiba XA2/XE1, but it's coming in a firmware update in September.

Also, note that at the moment there are no BD/HD players capable of decoding DTS-HD MA.
 
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According to what James says, even when option 3) is widely available, option 1) is still the preferred option, and even option 2) is better.
 
According to what James says, even when option 3) is widely available, option 1) is still the preferred option, and even option 2) is better.
Better in what way, exactly? For audio quality? There's no audible difference between either HDMI-dependent option, I can pretty much guarantee you that.

Hell, I'm not trying to defend decoding in the amp; HDMI 1.3 is a scam. I'm just listing the available options.

But you know... there is actually one scenario where in-amp decoding trumps in-player decoding: DTS-HD MA. None of the players on the market now can decode it, and it's very likely most of them will never decode it, due to hardware limitations.

But some of the players will receive a firmware update which enables DTS-HD MA bitstreaming over HDMI 1.3. Toshiba XA2/XE1 is one, and I'm sure Samsung 1200 will, too. There are more HD/BD-players in the horizon that can't decode DTS-MA, but can bitstream it. Whereas Dolby seems to prefer decoding in-player, DTS is looking for amps to decode DTS-MA.

Mixing button and interactive sounds on-the-fly is a moot point. They will simply be switched off when the user selects bitstream audio. It will be a choice everyone has to make depending on their hardware setup.
 
It looks like new Samsung players will be able to decode Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD.
When player manufacturers list "DTS-HD", they more often than not mean DTS-HD HR. The Panasonic BD10/BD10A decodes "DTS-HD" too, but only DTS-HD HR.
 
Yes! You guys are correct! An HDMI connection IS needed for the new HD audio formats. This is a detail I skimmed over but forgot when posting the new Sony.

So I'm guessing, a fully HDMI 1.0 graphics card with sound integrated would be needed to send the signal right to the receiver in this case? But as you pointed out, there are no software players capable of that yet. And the way I see it, I think software players might stay in limited numbers and features with Hollywood pressuring the companies to implement 'security' features unfortunately :(

Absolutely not true. When it comes to multichannel, SPDIF is [and always will be] limited to legacy codecs: Dolby Digital (incl. EX) and DTS (incl. ES and 96/24).

If you want to hear multichannel audio from Dolby Digital Plus, DTS-HD (non-core HR or MA) or Dolby TrueHD, here are your choices:

1) Decoded by player into PCM and transmitted over HDMI (1.0 or higher) to an A/V receiver
2) Decoded by player into PCM and transmitted over 5.1/7.1 analog connection to an A/V receiver
3) Transmitted over HDMI 1.3 as original bitstream to be decoded by the A/V receiver. Both the player and the A/V receiver need to be HDMI 1.3 or higher.

At this very moment there's not a single Blu-ray or HD DVD player in existence that can do option #3. Samsung 1200 has the necessary hardware, but the feature has not been enabled in its fimware. Same thing with Toshiba XA2/XE1, but it's coming in a firmware update in September.

Also, note that at the moment there are no BD/HD players capable of decoding DTS-HD MA.
 
Yes! You guys are correct! An HDMI connection IS needed for the new HD audio formats. This is a detail I skimmed over but forgot when posting the new Sony.

So I'm guessing, a fully HDMI 1.0 graphics card with sound integrated would be needed to send the signal right to the receiver in this case? But as you pointed out, there are no software players capable of that yet. And the way I see it, I think software players might stay in limited numbers and features with Hollywood pressuring the companies to implement 'security' features unfortunately :(
Do they have HDMI 1.3 cards out yet?
 
DD 6.1 EX doesn't need to be downconverted, it already is (there is no 6th channel, it is encoded in the 2 surround channels)
If you use DTS Interactive, you suddenly only have 5.1 speakers (from the compters point of view), the Auzentech cards can only encode 6 channels.
But your amp (if it is a decent one) will "upconvert" the missing back channels using either DD-ProLogix IIx, or DD-EX, or DTS-ES or whatever this is called.
If you have a discrete back channel, this signal will probably be lost or mixed into the surround channels by PowerDVD.

Ok, here's an update on the Auzentech x-plosion I just bought. I'm running vista 32 bit home premium. Yes, with DDL or DTS interactive, the receiver now reads the signal as DDL or DTS. The problem was that the sound sounded a little off.

I set PDVD to 6 speakers and turned on DDL. The receiver read it as Dolby Digital signal, however, voice was coming out of more than just the center channel. I heard it from the front right and left as well. I switched to DTS interactive and the same problem occurred. I then decided to switch PDVD back to SPDIF instead of 6 channel speakers. I turned off DDL and DTS interactive. Now all sounds fine with center channel the only one producing voice and the rights, lefts, surrounds providing the right sound. I'm now back to my original problem where bluray titles with PCM 5.1 or TrueHD only options do not work right on SPDIF mode in PDVD.

Any ideas?
 
But some of the players will receive a firmware update which enables DTS-HD MA bitstreaming over HDMI 1.3. Toshiba XA2/XE1 is one, and I'm sure Samsung 1200 will, too.

Concerning the XE1, that update is not going to happen. The XE1 can not be upgraded to output DTS HD and Dolby True HD via bitstream.

At least, that is what the german DVD and HDDVD product manager of Toshiba told a HT magazine this month in an interview. But the good news is, 24p update is coming soon.
 
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