The Lookout, Region 1 - AnyDVD 6.1.7.1 cannot properly handle this disc

Discussion in 'AnyDVD HD (DVD issues)' started by Pelvis Popcan, Sep 6, 2007.

  1. Pelvis Popcan

    Pelvis Popcan Well-Known Member

    I read the other thread here:

    http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=6872

    It was locked after three pages because Webslinger concluded there was nothing wrong with AnyDVD, plus there was some poster who seemed to want to argue that it was his right to discuss copying his rented DVD publically. :mad:

    I bought this disc today from a local retailer.

    I always want as close to accurate as a backup as possible, so I always do a "clone" type of backup... "Copy Disc" in Nero, or CloneCD, and use dual layer blanks when needed.

    The Lookout Region 1 DVD failed at exactly 77% in both of these applications with AnyDVD 6.1.7.1 used as the on-the-fly decrypter. CloneCD reports that there are 14 unreadable sectors. I tried it on three different DVD drives and two different computers.

    At first I thought it was simply a bad DVD, so I returned it to the retailer and told them it looks like a bad disc, and exchanged it for another one.

    EXACT SAME PROBLEM, ***EXACT*** SAME UNREADABLE 14 SECTORS!

    At this point I didn't own or use DVDFab, so I deceided to buy DVDFab Platinum to see if that had any problems. I installed DVDFab Platinum 3.1.8.0 and tried copying The Lookout using the "Clone" method, without AnyDVD running (with DVDFab's own decryption and protection removal coding).

    It had ***no problems***.

    This leads me to conclude that DVDFab has identified this DVD has having a type of protection that they then coded their application to remove. AnyDVD is therefore not handling this disc correctly.

    Although some of this might have been posted before, here's all the data:

    Nero Info Tool, "Disc" tab, without AnyDVD running:

    [​IMG]


    AnyDVD Info Window:

    [​IMG]


    Nero 7.10.1.0 CopyDVD error window when Ignore Read Errors **is NOT** selected:

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Pelvis Popcan

    Pelvis Popcan Well-Known Member

    (continued because for some reason the forum is set to only allow four images (including smilies) per post)

    Nero 7.10.1.0 CopyDVD window when Ignore Read Errors **is** selected:

    [​IMG]


    CloneCD 5.3.0.1 log window:

    [​IMG]
    (Again I would like to point out that these **EXACT SAME SECTORS** failed on **TWO DIFFERENT RETAIL COPIES**)


    DVDFab Platinum 3.1.8.0, AnyDVD **is NOT** used or running, "Ask retry/ignore/abort when reading error" **is** selected, "Skip sectors after a reading error" is set to 0:

    [​IMG]


    I would like to point out that I have not burned any of the ISO's with the unreadable sectors from Nero or CloneCD (with AnyDVD 6.1.7.1 running). It's possible that the burned ISO's from those applications may play without any issues, but I haven't tried, so I don't know.

    I attached the IFO files (copied without AnyDVD running) as well.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 6, 2007
  3. DrinkLyeAndDie

    DrinkLyeAndDie Retired Moderator

    Pelvis Popcan, could you uninstall and go back to AnyDVD 6.1.7.0 and try backing the movie up and see what happens? I know for a fact that AnyDVD 6.1.6.9 and 6.1.7.0 handled the movie perfectly.
     
  4. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    There's more than one thread, by the way.

    Anyway, here are some posts to look at:

    http://forum.slysoft.com/showpost.php?p=44290&postcount=3

    http://forum.slysoft.com/showpost.php?p=45402&postcount=35

    http://forum.slysoft.com/showpost.php?p=45156&postcount=13

    http://forum.slysoft.com/showpost.php?p=45269&postcount=19

    http://forum.slysoft.com/showpost.php?p=45275&postcount=21

    http://forum.slysoft.com/showpost.php?p=45383&postcount=30

    http://forum.slysoft.com/showpost.php?p=45421&postcount=39

    Because there isn't. However, the reason I closed the thread was due to people arguing about rentals (and the name calling)--and not for anything else.



    Wrong conclusion

    1. Anydvd ripper works
    2. Anydvd ripper + shrink works
    3. Anydvd + Clonedvd works
    4. Anydvd + Clonecd works (slowly, but at least, the backup works)

    Because Anydvd can't alter VOBs on the fly, Clonecd might be copying some of the structural protection from Arccos protected discs. If so, I don't think there's much that can be done about that--unless you rip first with Clonedvd or Anydvd ripper. However, the resulting backup from Clonecd does work.

    Some drives do make worse readers than others--and some discs that were released may be bad.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2007
  5. DrinkLyeAndDie

    DrinkLyeAndDie Retired Moderator

    I tried to find that quote because I knew I had read sector errors but I couldn't find the post.

    So, having been reminded of that and it happening where it did and then seeing Pelvis Popcan's post... my comment about trying an older AnyDVD version is now unnecessary.

    I didn't read through all the posts but I'm pretty sure I posted numerous different methods for backing it up.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2007
  6. Fred0149

    Fred0149 Well-Known Member

    I never had a problem with The Lookout using anydvd6170, and clonedvd.
     
  7. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    Yeah, really, the issue in this thread is that Clonecd is a 1:1 sector copier, so it's going to copy the bad sectors, since Anydvd can't (or doesn't seem to be) completely unprotect the disc on the fly. Anydvd ripper can--but that's not on the fly. The Clonecd backup will work, but some of the protection may be retained on the backup.

    In all honesty, I would like to see a better solution for Clonecd implemented (that will allow for the original layer break to be maintained--and also to have all the bad sector junk removed as well, even I suppose if that does mean ripping first). I suppose I really should rip first and clean everything up, but I'm just too lazy . . .
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2007
  8. Vincent VanTassle

    Vincent VanTassle New Member

    Great work with this.

    Let's see...

    Blades of Glory comes out, DVDFab is updated within 24 hours, AnyDVD... over 1 week.

    Other DVD's come out which AnyDVD can't handle, DVDFab is updated within days, AnyDVD... not even updated yet.

    Someone posts a DVD that AnyDVD can't handle, others report the same... Webslinger locks the thread. Then, after overwhelming evidence is presented showing that there's a problem, Webslinger continues to chastise the user and insist there isn't a problem. Notice how he tries to explain that CloneCD is a "1:1 sector copier," yet he fails to address how the same problem happens in Nero. AnyDVD is supposed to remove "Copy protection based on unreadable sectors," funny how I never had CloneCD report a bunch of unreadable sectors on arcos/puppetlock discs until today.

    I am sorry SlySoft, I can understand fumbling the ball every now and then, but this is a major dive in quality and support. I've never even had the need to post here before, and now I never will, because I am moving to DVDFab. You've lost my confidence and it will take some time and effort on your part to recover it.
     
  9. ricoman

    ricoman Well-Known Member

    Well VVT, if you leave it is your loss. I use both AnyDVD and DVdFab and I find the quality is noticeably better with the AnyDVD/CloneDVD. The only problem I've had in more than 3 yrs. was Blades of Glory. Admittedly I was dismayed at how long it took Slysoft to get a handle on it. What are these "other" DVDs you talk about that is giving AD a problem. I backed up Lookout with the previous version with no problems at all.
     
  10. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    I agree. Anydvd works with this title.


    The real difference in time between an actual working version of dvdfab that worked properly and an anydvd update that was released once and worked was 1 day.

    Regardless, we can play tit for tat over and over. Dvdfab took longer to address protectdvds from Germany--and dvdfab still doesn't help if I want to watch the original discs on my computer.

    Blades for Glory R1 came out on August 28th. dvdfab released a beta that finally worked properly on Sept. 1st. Slysoft released an update on Sept. 2nd. Big deal.

    Anydvd will be updated--and it remains a superior decrypter, unless, of course, you always prefer ripping first.

    More people posted that it worked fine.

    Yes, because the thread degenerated into people arguing and name calling.

    Overwhelming evidence? How does what Drinklyeanddie wrote about the Clonecd backup working fit into "overwhelming evidence"?

    Uhh? Where?

    Is there a problem if the backup works?

    Clonecd is a 1:1 sector copier.

    Nero disccopy would encounter difficulties because Anydvd does not alter the disc structure on the fly. You need to rip first. If you use Anydvd ripper--you can then use whatever you want.

    Nero Recode works perfectly fine with this title and Anydvd ripper.

    Dvdfab can't decrypt on the fly for other programs--so this isn't even something you can discuss with dvdfab. You have to rip first no matter what other program you want to use. :doh:

    If an issue exists here, it only exists when Anydvd is decrypting on the fly for 1:1 disc copiers; most of them are not as powerful as Clonecd, and if people understood how Anydvd worked, they would realize that chances are they're going to have to use Anydvd ripper first if they want to use third party software with some Arccos protected discs. Anydvd with Shrink, Recode, Clonedvd, Dvdnextcopy, etc. works perfectly fine.

    It is possible that Anydvd, on the fly, isn't doing something completely right for Clonecd with this title (I do admit this is a possibility), but the backup works, regardless.

    Your loss. Have fun always ripping first if you want to use another program!

    1st time poster promoting dvdfab . . .
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2007
  11. Pelvis Popcan

    Pelvis Popcan Well-Known Member

    Well, as I said, I didn't burn (let alone thoroughly test) the ISO's from Nero or CloneCD... have you? Others say they "work," but I'm not sure how thoroughly they are testing their ISO's. Did they play through the entire movie, along with the subtitle and audio tracks, and also check every menu item and extra? There may be problems, there may not...


    This fails to explain why it also occurs with Nero's "CopyDVD," but does not occur with DVDFab Platinum's "clone" function.


    This is the first disc I've ever had where AnyDVD behaves this way. If "some of the protection will be retained," doesn't that mean AnyDVD isn't handling the disc properly? DVDFab Platinum is also doing a 1:1 clone, yet it doesn't report these bad sectors.

    Perhaps the burned ISO from Nero or CloneCD will be fine, but "unreadable sector" errors are very off-putting. I think this disc should be looked into further by SlySoft.

    Have you actually seen or heard of CloneCD reporting unreadable sectors when used with AnyDVD on other titles? If so, with what titles did it occur?


    This is the first DVD I've ever had that reports unreadable sectors in Nero and CloneCD. I've backed up quite a few of the discs with Arccos / Puppetlock and also "bad sector programs," and I've never seen this.

    Additionally, it has always been my understanding that CloneCD maintains the original layer break on dual layer DVD's.


    Please try to be civil and not cause the thread to degenerate to the point where it gets locked.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2007
  12. Charlie

    Charlie Well-Known Member

    How about this remove the beta and use the official release and see if there is a difference as I recieved a perfect backup then if not I say it is a bad source disc.
     
  13. DrinkLyeAndDie

    DrinkLyeAndDie Retired Moderator

    NOTE: If you are prone to violent reactions to sarcasm do not read this message.

    Your point? I don't use DVDFab and I won't say it's bad because it isn't but since you made a point to bring it up then I'll respond.

    Note that DVDFab may have released an update quickly but it took 3 updates before a full disc rip of Blades of Glory successfully backed up w/o pixellation and scenes being removed. It removed too much from the original while removing the protections. The version that did work successfully was released 5 days ago which would make it Saturday September 1st. AnyDVD 6.1.7.1 beta was released on Sunday September 2nd. So, um, IMHO it looks like DVDFab actually only beat Slysoft by at maximum 24 hrs. Oh, and AnyDVD worked right with the first update to handle the protection. But who is really counting... right?

    Like? Are we talking about Curse of the Golden Flower R2 and Paris By Night 89 - Live in Korea? I'm sure they'll be dealt with in due time. The protections on them are probably better dealt with when Slysoft actually possesses a physical disc since, in both cases I believe, the file system is intentionally corrupted. So wait maybe an extra couple days or maybe get a beta that doesn't fully work. Hmmm... well, since I don't copy rentals I don't have a return date to worry about so I'll wait and make a backup when Slysoft releases an update.

    The Lookout was able to be backed up with AnyDVD 6.1.6.9, 6.1.7.0 and 6.1.7.1 beta. Refer to all the posts I made about it. Yes, CloneCD had sector read errors but the copy completed and CloneDVD could deal with it. AnyDVD ripper handled it just fine. Generally when threads get locked there is a reason: (1) the same issue has been discussed in another thread and people are creating endless new threads or (2) the thread about the movie is nothing but an endless circle of statements which accomplishes nothing. The Blades of Glory thread is a perfect example.

    Slysoft has fumbled nothing and DVDFab took 4 days and 3 updates after the release of Blades of Glory to actually have a fully working fix. Slysoft took 5 days and 1 update after the day of release. And Slysoft didn't receive the DVD til God knows when. Wow, one whole day. Oh the humanity!

    Personally, I don't think you really did anything but troll with your posting and shockingly [not!] it's your first one ever. You really didn't offer any direct information as to any specific movies that had issues or threads that got locked. I, on the other hand, did. If you had offered more detailed information I could have taken your statements more seriously.

    I'm sorry that you lost confidence and you have the right to use any software you want. Feel free. Regardless of anything enjoy your movies.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2007
  14. Pelvis Popcan

    Pelvis Popcan Well-Known Member

    The thing is, Nero's "Copy DVD" function also has similar read errors, but DVDFab Platinum does not.

    I'm not trying to promote DVDFab, I'm trying to understand why it's not reporting these read errors with this title, while CloneCD **AND** Nero both report similar read errors when used with AnyDVD.

    This is the first time I've ever run across anything like this with AnyDVD.

    It will take me a while, but I'll try it with AnyDVD 6.1.7.0 later on and see if the behavior is still present.
     
  15. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    No. I don't own this disc.

    Drinklyeanddie is a pretty smart guy; I trust what he reports. The thing is no one who reported back was specifically creating an .iso (but a clonecd image file shouldn't be significantly different).

    Again, I don't know.


    Dvdfab doesn't do anything on the fly. It's basically the same as having a decrypter embedded into Clonedvd or Clonecd. So the program can alter vobs, etc. If you're just doing a Nero discopy with Anydvd running in the background, Anydvd is decrypting on the fly--and nothing can really significantly alter the vobs or disc structure on the fly. So this issue exists with Arccos protected discs being decrypted on the fly. Clonecd is a more powerful disc copier than Nero. Nero is always going to fail first.

    When you use Anydvd ripper, the .vobs, etc., can be altered. So, if you use Anydvd ripper, no problem will exist (other than having to manually fix the layer break position in something like pcgedit/imgburn).



    No, since Anydvd ripper works fine. This is an "on the fly" with a 1:1 copier issue (and only with specific protections). It's similar to why DVD Shrink won't work with certain discs (mostly Sony/Lionsgate releases) unless you use Anydvd ripper first.

    Again, dvdfab never has to nor can work "on the fly" for another program.

    I agree. I'm just saying the Clonecd backup works according to what's been reported (and despite the "unreadable sector" errors).

    James has looked at the .ifos. I can't really make a call here. Slysoft has to.

    Fair enough

    Yes, it does.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2007
  16. RedFox 1

    RedFox 1 Super Moderator

    Hi Vincent:
    I am really sorry we have lost your confidence. If you think you have found something better , then go for it. I am tired of reading your crap here. I hope this will be the last of it. ( Now that you have moved to FAB.) What you have posted is just your opinion and not the opinions of thousands of users of this product. Good luck with Fab.:policeman:
     
  17. Pelvis Popcan

    Pelvis Popcan Well-Known Member

    ..........

     
  18. DrinkLyeAndDie

    DrinkLyeAndDie Retired Moderator

    I did a lot of experimenting. The output from CloneCD was handled fine by CloneDVD and I also mounted and viewed the movie. It played fine for me. If you don't like the fact the read errors exist then I'd suggest you use the AnyDVD ripper and then compress or re-author in a second step.

    I can't explain this because I don't know the difference in how the different products do what they do but that might be part of it. Does DVDFab's clone function do actual 1:1 backup like CloneCD? I have no idea how Nero's CopyDVD works.

    I don't use CloneCD much but this is the first time I saw it, as well.

    I agree it looked weird but there are alternatives. This isn't what you want to hear, I'm sure. I'm not sure they can do too much with CloneCD w/o overhauling it to handle this stuff on the fly yet leave the layer break intact. But, I'm also not a programmer.

    Did you try using Nero CD-DVD Speed and see what it said? I'm just curious. Try using it with and without AnyDVD running.

    Yes, it does but I don't know if they can remove everything on the fly and leave the layer break. But as I said before I'm not programmer.
     
  19. RedFox 1

    RedFox 1 Super Moderator

    I am sure if there are any problems , they will be sorted. Like DrinkLyeAndDie said , there are many other alternatives with Slysoft products to backup this movie correctly. If you choose not to use them then shame on you. The developers will look into any and all problems and sort them, just please be patient. And just for the record there are many instances of bad batches of source discs, so having 2 that did not work is not strange.:doh:
     
  20. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    Yes, actually, I don't think Slysoft gets enough credit here. I don't know if James will be angry with me for writing this, but oh well . . . He told me he didn't want to release 2-3 betas to finally have a version that works properly. He told me he wanted to release one version of Anydvd that worked right--the first time. And he did. He didn't say why. I'll tell you why. Who, in his or her right mind, wants to create confusion with releases that may or may not work? No one. So, I think James is to be commended on waiting for the disc to arrive in Antigua to ensure it works properly instead of just basing everything on .ifos that people post or upload (and then just post a beta version hoping that it will work). James got it right the first time. :clap: