Should Anydvd HD have a ripper function (X-Protect related)?

[DrinkLyeAndDie]

EDIT:
I am shocked, that a lot of people use AnyDVD, but have no idea what it actually does. Some education is required...

You guys do your job so well that no one really realizes what it does and how complex it is.

Maybe one of the developers should write up a brief yet technical explanation so people are more informed?

 

[SamuriHL]

Believe me, there are tons of misconceptions about what AnyDVD does and is. And people can be downright irritated if you try to correct them. I know what it is and what it does and I marvel at its amazing design every day. The AnyDVD Ripper function....I'm still on the fence on that one. It served its purpose back when it was needed. Now, not so much.

 

[Webslinger]

The AnyDVD Ripper function....I'm still on the fence on that one. It served its purpose back when it was needed. Now, not so much.

It's still needed. And as I, Webslinger, the most powerful mind reader known to mankind, peer into the murky darkness that is our future, I say unto thee, "Anydvd ripper is needed now, and will be needed in the future".

http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=18274

 

[SamuriHL]

I respectfully disagree. A stand alone application should be created for this purpose. One that allows you to rip ISO or files, IMO. The ripper shouldn't be part of AnyDVD.

 

[Webslinger]

I respectfully disagree. A stand alone application should be created for this purpose. One that allows you to rip ISO or files, IMO. The ripper shouldn't be part of AnyDVD.

Well, whatever . . . Your original post mentioned "function". The functionality Anydvd ripper provides is still required, regardless of whether you want to argue if that functionality should be integrated into Anydvd.

 

[SamuriHL]

Well, whatever . . . Your original post mentioned "function". The functionality Anydvd ripper provides is still required.

That's the whole point, though. AnyDVD's job is to remove the protection from the disc at the kernel layer. The OS should never see any of the crap that's on it. Therefore you should be able to "rip" the disc with whatever you want. CloneDVD, Windows Explorer, DOS copy, etc. Ripping, as a function, sure you need that obviously. I just don't believe it belongs in AnyDVD. It's just a personal opinion that has no bearing on reality.

 

[Webslinger]

That's the whole point, though. AnyDVD's job is to remove the protection from the disc at the kernel layer. The OS should never see any of the crap that's on it. Therefore you should be able to "rip" the disc with whatever you want.

Structural protections make ripping with whatever you want impossible, so the functionality Anydvd ripper provides is still required (and will be required).

It's just a personal opinion that has no bearing on reality.

I don't really care if the ripper is integrated into Anydvd or not--as long as Slysoft is providing the option. If you don't include that capacity to rip along with the Anydvd purchase, when the next X-Protect Blu-ray comes out, people will be screaming bloody murder just like they did when Saw III came out in SD.

 

[SamuriHL]

That's my point, though...the AnyDVD Ripper (no offense james and crew) is a kludge. It was tacked on as a fix because people didn't want to purchase CloneDVD to use just as a ripper. Now we've got BD's in the mix. The AnyDVD ripper functionality is not really well suited to this task. A stand alone product, be it freeware or a paid add on (I know, that'd go over really well I'm sure), would be a much more useful thing to have. Hell, give it ONLY the option of ripping as files or ISO for all I care. It'd slim down the code for AnyDVD and make a ripping application more useful.

 

[Webslinger]

That's my point, though...the AnyDVD Ripper (no offense james and crew) is a kludge.

James already described it as such, so it seems doubtful that he would be offended.

It was tacked on as a fix because people didn't want to purchase CloneDVD to use just as a ripper. Now we've got BD's in the mix. The AnyDVD ripper functionality is not really well suited to this task. A stand alone product, be it freeware or a paid add on (I know, that'd go over really well I'm sure)

No. It wouldn't go over well. Anydvd use to work with dvdShrink and no longer did when discs containing structural protection were released. That's when all the screaming started. And based on the past I suspect the screaming would start up again in the future if people can't rip Blu-rays containing structural protection with Anydvd HD.

I agree with you in terms of a development perspective. I don't agree with you in terms of PR/customer support.

 

[James]

I respectfully disagree. A stand alone application should be created for this purpose. One that allows you to rip ISO or files, IMO. The ripper shouldn't be part of AnyDVD.

I agree with you disagreeing.
AnyDVD ripper was only added to please users (Shrink users for DVD, XP users without an UDF2.5 file system with HD DVD / Blu-ray).

It looks like AnyDVD has been developed ignoring the wishes of the users. They don't care about "the beauty of the design". They don't understand, that "a read only disc can suddenly change its content". And it has been extremely difficult to teach people. Some customers have asked our support "but if AnyDVD removes the copy protection from the original disc, it is changed, and I'll get into trouble when I return the disc".
Serious. No joke. They want to start an application with a big red button labeled "COPY".

But AnyDVD was developed primarily with the Home Theater Enthusiast in mind (e.g. subtitle transparency and the jump over annoyances feature are not designed to be activated when you *copy* a disc, but when you *watch it* on a HTPC).
I am sure that people complaining about the high purchase price of AnyDVD just want a "COPY" program. AnyDVD is *not* a copy program. It never was in the beginning! It could not copy anything on its own, until the AnyDVD ripper was introduced (after some years and a lot of complaints).
I believe Home Theater enthusiasts would gladly pay twice the price, if AnyDVD could adjust the subtitle position, so they can see them on their 10000$ fixed height 1:2.35 Cinemascope Stewart Screen. I hope you understand the point I am trying to make.

I believe most people don't care about and don't want AnyDVD's "magic" (which is extremely complicated - much more difficult to implement than a "copy tool" - and can - in rare situations - cause problems with 3rd party drivers or software).
They want a simple, cheap application with a "copy" button. They currently use AnyDVD because it is working so well and is the only option available in many areas (AACS, HD DVD, Blu-ray, BD+).

It is actually quite amazing how successful AnyDVD is, despite the fact that it seems to ignore the needs of the market.

How successful would a stand alone "SIMPLE CLICK" copy program be, featuring our expertise in breaking every copy protection?

Should be a winner, don't you think? I certainly do.

 

[James]

I agree with you in terms of a development perspective. I don't agree with you in terms of PR/customer support.

AnyDVD was designed "blindfolded", ignoring the needs of the customer. AnyDVD ripper was added to satisfy the Customer, but it isn't a good solution.

Most people don't need or want AnyDVD's functionality, the want a robust copy program. Lucky for us, the combination AnyDVD with elby's CloneDVD provided this.

But after ignoring what the customer "really wants" for 5 years, it may be time to try something different...

 

[Webslinger]

How successful would a stand alone "SIMPLE CLICK" copy program be, featuring our expertise in breaking every copy protection?

Should be a winner, don't you think? I certainly do.

Oh, God. Does that wink mean you're joking?

People are going to have a hairy fit if you start removing features and charging for them.

*sigh*

(*I see screaming, angry Shrink users--and angry Anydvd HD users once X-Protect Blu-rays are released*).

 

[James]

Oops, we are off topic... maybe Webslinger can split this discussion into another thread?

 

[SamuriHL]

Excellent post, James. I agree with all of what you said there. That's why I think a "simple click" program based on AnyDVD's technology could be quite successful. Personally I'll take what AnyDVD does as I'm an HTPC fan and love the features. Trying to explain the concept to people who are all about "ripping" is damn near impossible, though. I've tried. I've seen you try. It's an impossible task. Hence, I think remove the ripping functionality and release it as a stand alone app.

 

[Webslinger]

AnyDVD ripper was added to satisfy the Customer, but it isn't a good solution.

Maybe not, but Anydvd in combination with the ripper makes it the most versatile decryption program on the market. Anyway, I know that you're fully aware of the screaming DvdShrink user syndrome, so you must have something planned/thought out that I'm not aware of.

 

[James]

Oh, God. Does that wink mean you're joking?

People are going to have a hairy fit if you start removing features and charging for them.

*sigh*

(*I see screaming, angry Shrink users--and angry Anydvd HD users once X-Protect Blu-rays are released*).

Removing features? Why?
All I am saying is, that a "simple deprotect, copy and burn with the click of a button" application would please a lot of people.
It could be reasonably priced, and a lot of people wouldn't even miss AnyDVD. (e.g., those who "start AnyDVD to copy a DVD, and then exit it" ... AnyDVD is designed as *part of the operating system*, it is not designed to be "started" and "exited" like ... a copy program)

AnyDVD - priced as a premium product, which it certainly is - satisfies those who want or need the on the fly magic. HTPC people with high end TVs and beamers.

 

[SamuriHL]

Removing features? Why?
All I am saying is, that a "simple deprotect, copy and burn with the click of a button" application would please a lot of people.
It could be reasonably priced, and a lot of people wouldn't even miss AnyDVD. (e.g., those who "start AnyDVD to copy a DVD, and then exit it" ... AnyDVD is designed as *part of the operating system*, it is not designed to be "started" and "exited" like ... a copy program)

AnyDVD - priced as a premium product, which it certainly is - satisfies those who want or need the on the fly magic. HTPC people with high end TVs and beamers.

And what I'm saying is if you do that, AnyDVD no longer needs to have ripping functionality. Why not kick in a license for the "simple deprotect, copy, and burn" program for anyone who already has an AnyDVD license? No one gets pissed off, and everyone gets the functionality they want. The ripper gets removed and AnyDVD goes back to its roots finally. (And becomes smaller in the process) Win win win?

 

[Webslinger]

Removing features? Why?

Does that mean you're still going to maintain Anydvd ripper or offer similar functionality for existing customers without charging them extra for it?

 

[James]

Hence, I think remove the ripping functionality and release it as a stand alone app.

As Webslinger already said, and I believe he is right: I can't remove a feature from a product without a lot of people yelling and screaming. So, unfortunately we're stuck with it. I'll even add ISO ripping to AnyDVD (don't worry, it is a very small code module, much smaller than the current ripper), so it doesn't hurt anyone. Maybe it costs some CloneCD sales... but I seriously doubt that.

 

[Webslinger]

And what I'm saying is if you do that, AnyDVD no longer needs to have ripping functionality. Why not kick in a license for the "simple deprotect, copy, and burn" program for anyone who already has an AnyDVD license? No one gets pissed off, and everyone gets the functionality they want. The ripper gets removed and AnyDVD goes back to its roots finally. (And becomes smaller in the process) Win win win?

Actually, I think that's a great idea.