Should Anydvd HD have a ripper function (X-Protect related)?

[James]

Does that mean you're still going to maintain Anydvd ripper or offer similar functionality for existing customers without charging them extra for it?

I would certainly try to use exactly the same code in both products, so it would basically "maintain itself". SamuriHL is an educated software guy, he can explain how such things work...

 

[SamuriHL]

As Webslinger already said, and I believe he is right: I can't remove a feature from a product without a lot of people yelling and screaming. So, unfortunately we're stuck with it. I'll even add ISO ripping to AnyDVD (don't worry, it is a very small code module, much smaller than the current ripper), so it doesn't hurt anyone. Maybe it costs some CloneCD sales... but I seriously doubt that.

I'm not sure I agree on this one. If you were to have the AnyDVD or AnyDVD HD license trump all and register the ripping app, I think people would be totally fine with you removing the functionality. The key is to not have to have people pay more for the functionality they already have. So when this new app is installed, if AnyDVD is detected and registered, boom, good to go. No?

 

[James]

Actually, I think that's a great idea.

I doubt my Boss would like that, as he has to invest the money to develop such an application in the first place.

 

[SamuriHL]

I would certainly try to use exactly the same code in both products, so it would basically "maintain itself". SamuriHL is an educated software guy, he can explain how such things work...

SUCKILY! (Yes, it's my word of the day.) I really think my idea of splitting them out and giving the other program away to registered AnyDVD owners is the better way to go. Maintain ONCE.

 

[James]

I'm not sure I agree on this one. If you were to have the AnyDVD or AnyDVD HD license trump all and register the ripping app, I think people would be totally fine with you removing the functionality. The key is to not have to have people pay more for the functionality they already have. So when this new app is installed, if AnyDVD is detected and registered, boom, good to go. No?

Technically no problem. Convincing my Boss... difficult.

 

[SamuriHL]

I doubt my Boss would like that, as he has to invest the money to develop such an application in the first place.

I can sell him on it. The code would have to be maintained in two separate places should you develop an application like that. AnyDVD already has the functionality and people have already paid for it. *NEW SALES* are where it's at! Sell the product for half what AnyDVD costs for new customers. Those are the people who say it costs too much now. Win them over and you get a bucketload of new customers to offset the cost of throwing it in for AnyDVD owners who've already purchased the product.

 

[Bigrick]

i gotta say i agree with both SamuriHl and Webslinger. personally i dont use the ripper nor do i need it but there are people that do and i can see why they would want it included it also is a good idea to split it from anydvd and make it a seperate program for already anydvd hd users. but i dont really see aproblem if it stays unless im missing some problem it might have caused cause once again i dont use it

 

[SamuriHL]

Technically no problem. Convincing my Boss... difficult.

I don't think so. You want good PR. This would go a long way towards bringing over some of the "it costs too much" people. Any you throw some love to the AnyDVD crowd, as well. Plus, and here's the best part, it makes YOUR life simpler by not having to splice in a code base into both AnyDVD and your new ripping toy. The protection removal could definitely be shared, but, the ripping code could be removed from AnyDVD and only maintained once.

 

[Webslinger]

SamuriHL's idea gets my vote.

You could also charge extra for Blu-ray/HD-DVD ripping (for new customers--not existing ones), just like Anydvd HD costs more than Anydvd. Actually for Anydvd users, their license key should only let them rip (in this new program), since that's really what they paid for. You let the license key unlock the features people can use.

 

[James]

SUCKILY! (Yes, it's my word of the day.) I really think my idea of splitting them out and giving the other program away to registered AnyDVD owners is the better way to go. Maintain ONCE.

After second thought... maybe impossible because of licensing. AnyDVD ripper is based on elby(tm) CloneDVD(tm) technology. We certainly cannot put it in another application - which would not only be competing with CloneDVD, but practically kill it.
What about the users who have bought CloneDVD? Offer them a free license? Now I see my Boss throwing chairs at me, and he would be right, as such generosity might kill ourselves.

 

[SamuriHL]

i gotta say i agree with both SamuriHl and Webslinger. personally i dont use the ripper nor do i need it but there are people that do and i can see why they would want it included it also is a good idea to split it from anydvd and make it a seperate program for already anydvd hd users. but i dont really see aproblem if it stays unless im missing some problem it might have caused cause once again i dont use it

James probably hates me right about now actually. I was a huge advocate of putting it in the program in the first place to placate the DVD Shrink users. I lobbied hard for it's inclusion. And it was, in retrospect, the wrong idea. A separate program should have been created and given to the AnyDVD crowd. And sold as a ripper to the "I just want a ripper" crowd. Win win for everyone, IMO. A stand alone ripper could have SO much more functionality than the basic stuff that AnyDVD includes. And as someone who works on code for a living, I know that having to support kludge code is a pain in the ass. The ripper wasn't designed into AnyDVD...it was added as an afterthought. It works, yes, but, it's not elegant. A stand alone ripper would get the attention it deserves and allow AnyDVD to become slightly lighter weight for the HTPC people.

 

[SamuriHL]

After second thought... maybe impossible because of licensing. AnyDVD ripper is based on elby(tm) CloneDVD(tm) technology. We certainly cannot put it in another application - which would not only be competing with CloneDVD, but practically kill it.
What about the users who have bought CloneDVD? Offer them a free license? Now I see my Boss throwing chairs at me, and he would be right, as such generosity might kill ourselves.

Who the hell buys CloneDVD without AnyDVD?????

 

[Bigrick]

James probably hates me right about now actually. I was a huge advocate of putting it in the program in the first place to placate the DVD Shrink users. I lobbied hard for it's inclusion. And it was, in retrospect, the wrong idea. A separate program should have been created and given to the AnyDVD crowd. And sold as a ripper to the "I just want a ripper" crowd. Win win for everyone, IMO. A stand alone ripper could have SO much more functionality than the basic stuff that AnyDVD includes. And as someone who works on code for a living, I know that having to support kludge code is a pain in the ass. The ripper wasn't designed into AnyDVD...it was added as an afterthought. It works, yes, but, it's not elegant. A stand alone ripper would get the attention it deserves and allow AnyDVD to become slightly lighter weight for the HTPC people.

and i agree with you 100% but id rather you piss the slysoft crew off then me

 

[James]

I don't think so. You want good PR. This would go a long way towards bringing over some of the "it costs too much" people. Any you throw some love to the AnyDVD crowd, as well. Plus, and here's the best part, it makes YOUR life simpler by not having to splice in a code base into both AnyDVD and your new ripping toy. The protection removal could definitely be shared, but, the ripping code could be removed from AnyDVD and only maintained once.

Actually, the "ripping" part isn't such a big deal anyway, once the protection is gone. Leave the little "rip to harddisk" menu item where it is, and everybody will be happy (including my Boss).

 

[Bigrick]

Who the hell buys CloneDVD without AnyDVD?????

actually i did along time ago when i was using dvd xcopy then that rpogram went to s**t and i got clonedvd and never looked back

 

[DrinkLyeAndDie]

You guys are scaring me.

 

[SamuriHL]

and i agree with you 100% but id rather you piss the slysoft crew off then me

This conversation isn't pissing off Slysoft. James and crew will find it to be a good way to guage how best to meet customer demand. New ideas are always appreciated whether they can be accomodated or not. This thread is driving a new concept that could, in theory, give them another revenue stream if done correctly. And make the code easier to maintain. James' concerns about licensing CloneDVD technology from Elby is extremely valid, however, I would say to that that CloneDVD's life span is short lived at this point anyway. DVD's aren't going anywhere, to be sure, but, those who want the functionality of CloneDVD have bought it already. And most of us that want this kind of software have moved on to BD and HD DVD. Elby should be focusing their attention on that market and release a CloneBD type program to generate more revenue for them. In the process, maybe Slysoft could convince them that allowing the use of CloneDVD technology in a ripper would be beneficial. It's not like the ripper is going to allow you to selectively pick the streams you want to keep....

 

[SamuriHL]

Actually, the "ripping" part isn't such a big deal anyway, once the protection is gone. Leave the little "rip to harddisk" menu item where it is, and everybody will be happy (including my Boss).

Ok, fine. As long as you're content with it being there. I'll concede on that one.

 

[SamuriHL]

actually i did along time ago when i was using dvd xcopy then that rpogram went to s**t and i got clonedvd and never looked back

I have an opinion on that, but, um, yea... No NORMAL SANE person would by CloneDVD without AnyDVD. GRIN

 

[James]

James probably hates me right about now actually. I was a huge advocate of putting it in the program in the first place to placate the DVD Shrink users. I lobbied hard for it's inclusion. And it was, in retrospect, the wrong idea. A separate program should have been created and given to the AnyDVD crowd. And sold as a ripper to the "I just want a ripper" crowd. Win win for everyone, IMO. A stand alone ripper could have SO much more functionality than the basic stuff that AnyDVD includes. And as someone who works on code for a living, I know that having to support kludge code is a pain in the ass. The ripper wasn't designed into AnyDVD...it was added as an afterthought. It works, yes, but, it's not elegant. A stand alone ripper would get the attention it deserves and allow AnyDVD to become slightly lighter weight for the HTPC people.

No, it wouldn't be so much "lighter", as the AI scanner - which came after the ripper was introduced - makes heavy use of elby's libraries. So they can't really be separated.
The HD ripper is very small, as most parts (UDF2.5 parser, I/O handling) are needed to decrypt on the fly (AnyDVD decrypts *before* the disc is visible to the system, so it *cannot* use the UDF or UDF2.5 filesystem of the OS).
So, I don't think it is "as bad as it looks". Adding the ISO ripper will make the program... some kByte bigger, I would guess. no big deal.