Roku, Plex and TrueHD Audio

[coopervid]

The only way you get full "use" of that is if you send that to a sound system that understands it and can play it as is. Which typically in my experience would be a capable audio receiver that is using most or all of the channels the stream provides. If you just send that to something that does not understand it, transcodes it itself or cannot play it through 6 or 7 channels then you have not accomplished anything in my opinion.

Anything besides an AV-Receiver has too many limitations. If you don't go with that you have to live with too many restrictions anyway. Your choice.

 

[coopervid]

Again - perfect setup: Oppo Clone plus an AV-Receiver. If you don't want that - live with the limitations.

 

[cartman0208]

If that thing would have an ODD and could handle a plex app, I would actually consider it

 

[coopervid]

If that thing would have an ODD and could handle a plex app, I would actually consider it

You use your ODD and make an ISO or file structure and put it on an USB hard drive or a NAS. Why should the Oppo Clone need an ODD?

I'm not familiar with Plex but why do you need a software in the middle of a NAS and the Oppo Clone if the Oppo just plays all these files just fine. Maybe somebody can chime in and report how that works with Plex.

 

[cartman0208]

Why should the Oppo Clone need an ODD?

'cause my 6year old wants to put his kids music CDs into it and start listening, without starting the TV or searching through folders

but why do you need a software in the middle of a NAS and the Oppo Clone if the Oppo just plays all these files just fine

Sorting, categorizing, keeping track of what I already watched ... you really should try it someday

I'm just looking for something that can handle the video-files created MakeMKV (uncompressed video and orginal audio)
Windows looks promising for that ... now to put it into a shiny HTPC with an UHD capable drive, plug that into the soundbar via HDMI and I should be good to to ... in my way of thinking...

 

[coopervid]

Get the 6 year old a boom box with a CD player.

You can do folders on a NAS or USB drives. I stopped using a HTPC some years ago. That was back then the most affordable solution. Now I'm with the best quality solution.

 

[cartman0208]

Just found that video about HTPC and Plex ... the first 5 minutes are quite interesting in terms of audio...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz9kKjEktls

 

[cartman0208]

Well I managed to passthrough Plex over my soundbar to the TV with 7.1 TrueHD from my rather old Notebook.
It dows not support dynamic HDR metadata, but since I do not own a DolbyVision TV and HDR10+ Movies are very rare, I'm fine with HDR10
Now to get a more powerful machine to house PlexHTPC, because my tests with 4K Movies were mostly still pictures with choppy audio

 

[DQ]

Well I managed to passthrough Plex over my soundbar to the TV with 7.1 TrueHD from my rather old Notebook.
It dows not support dynamic HDR metadata, but since I do not own a DolbyVision TV and HDR10+ Movies are very rare, I'm fine with HDR10
Now to get a more powerful machine to house PlexHTPC, because my tests with 4K Movies were mostly still pictures with choppy audio

Plex supports that as a passthrough so long as it's a direct play all the way (I just find that statement on their site). The issue is that no dedicated streaming hardware but the aging Nvidia shield will allow it to pass (that I can find). So unless you use a PC or a Shield you get transcoded by Plex. I looked into the shield and for the cost, the age of the design and the fact it's android I said no to that idea. But that's just me, I am sure many are happy with it or a PC. I used an HTPC for a few years and I just did not care for that experience. To much of a pain vs. dedicated hardware. More capable yes, but 10x the aggravation.

 

[robv14001]

Some info about PLEX and my NVIDIA SHIELD setup. Don't read if you know all about PLEX, NVIDIA SHIELD, etc.

I've been using PLEX and NVIDIA SHIELD for years. Just now I checked, and SHIELD is $150 on AMAZON. You run the PLEX client on SHIELD. (I run the PLEX server on Windows, but you can theoretically run a PLEX server on SHIELD or elsewhere.) In the PLEX client, under AUDIO, you set PASSTHROUGH HDMI. You're on your LAN, so PLEX should send audio and video over the HDMI OUT right to the AVR in what is called DIRECT PLAY (not transcoded to EAC3, for example). I do this, and get perfect 1080p video and TrueHD 7.1, etc. audio sent to the AVR, and a buddy has the same setup and also does 4K video. (The AVR of course plays the sound, and it sends the video to the TV.) When I tried to use TiVo, Fire TV, and other boxes I had around the house, I experienced all the performance problems people have been talking about. NVIDIA SHIELD seemed to be the only box with enough horses to push these high-bandwidth signals. As an aside, my house is gigabit, but I would think 10/100 would also work for the PLEX server to SHIELD.

As for what else PLEX can do, it's pretty impressive. (NOTE: I use an old PLEX server and an old PLEX client. New PLEX S/W might be different.) PLEX completely understands movies, TV shows (seasons, episodes), music, and pictures. (I don't do pictures.) It downloads metadata and more. You can customize a lot. It can also function as an OTA DVR. You install an acceptable TV Tuner card in the PLEX server PC, and tell Plex it's there. It will download the guide, and -- voila! -- you have a DVR. I record network and local news shows every day. Additionally, you can install a PLEX app on your phone. I've actually watched Live OTA TV (and movies) on my phone via PLEX. Encryption is supported over the LAN and WAN.

NVIDIA SHIELD is getting a bad rap here. It's not that bad. It does run Android, which is disgustingly ad-filled these days (like all the streaming boxes it seems). However, if you're running an old enough version (like I am), you can turn off all the ads. I basically see three icons when I turn on SHIELD: PLEX, a FILE-MOVING utility, and surveillance-camera S/W. That's it. Nothing bouncing around telling me to buy something or watch some ad-filled movie. The NVIDIA SHIELD remote control in newer versions is improved over older versions, but the ones I have still leave a lot to be desired. What I use is a repurposed AMAZON FIRE TV remote, since SHIELD and PLEX can work with it. Indeed, if you get the setup right using CEC, you can control the volume of the AVR with the AMAZON REMOTE as well as do all the PLEX controls you might need.

Some comments on SHIELD: even though NVIDIA claims they fixed this, I think it's still a problem: HDCP. I had to switch to a HDCP 2.2 AVR to accept the output of SHIELD, otherwise PLEX could not send TrueHD, etc. I earlier here or elsewhere mentioned PLEX (or something in the mix) will transcode if the box it's running on doesn't pass some HDCP test. When I read here about Roku problems, I assume the Roku box is streaming, in which case I wonder where it's getting TrueHD. If it's using the PLEX app (which does exist in Roku TVs), then either the Roku TV doesn't have the horses or it's having an HDCP issue. What you need is a box that runs the PLEX client, and the box has to have the horses, hence SHIELD entering the discussion. As someone mentioned, too bad the AVR itself didn't support a PLEX client. Using a non-TV PLEX client, run the PLEX client to the AVR, and let the AVR drive the TV. Be wary of HDCP issues. Finally, SHIELD may be "old tech," but the main one I have has been running fine for years. In other words, if you want to call it old tech, do so, but it still keeps doing what I want it to! These SHIELD boxes are still being sold. And they've got the horses. The one for $150 on AMAZON is my second SHIELD (bought as a backup, which I loaned to the above-mentioned buddy). This newer SHIELD works as well as my older SHIELD, and I was able to eliminate the aggravating Android ads on it, too. SHIELD runs a lot of the Android apps, and is a game box, so it does more than just run the PLEX client. For example, I also run the surveillance app on SHIELD.

 

[DQ]

Plex is fantastic. It's mature and stable and most of it is well thought out with ease of use in mind. In short, it just works. And I do a lot of shenanigans with it.

As far as Roku, from what I understand you saying, you are incorrect. The Roku does not support any of the lossless audio codecs, not even in pass through. So this has nothing to do with the horsepower of a device it's just not supported. Which makes sense as that is just not what they are made for at this time. But you are right about embedded Roku's in a TV. They suck and are underpowered. Even on my Roku TVs I have an external Roku for that very reason. They perform significantly better. The modern Roku sticks and the Ultra are not the beast the Shield is but that are not shabby. I run 4k through them. That's 4K I ripped myself not from a streaming platform. It's about a 100-150mb stream and they hang with it (only over Wifi, their ethernet is only 100mb which sucks).

I have not spoken anything about the Shield that was not fact. I think it's a great device and it DOES handle the lossless audio codecs. But the Android thing turns me off personally and while the hardware is good it currently has 1 severe weakness as I understand it and that also keeps me from it. It only has HDMI 2.0. And without HDMI 2.1 you cannot get Dynamic HDR so no HDR10+ or DV. I am no expert on the device, this is just stuff I found when researching it when I was considering getting one.

For now I have personally chosen to stick with the Roku. The only thing I lose for now is TrueHD but when it transcodes it to EAC it still comes out pretty awesome as far as I can tell.

At the end of the day, for me, I rather have HDR10+ than the lossless codec. I am assuming at some point the Roku will support it or maybe the Shield will get updated hardware.

 

[cartman0208]

And without HDMI 2.1 you cannot get Dynamic HDR so no HDR10+ or DV.

Actually you can ... with 4K and 60Hz HDR10+ and DV is possible over HDMI2.0
And from what I gathered, the shield "should" be able to support it.
If you want 8K or 4K@120Hz, then you will need HDMI2.1
Of course as always ... all devices in the chain have to support it.

 

[DQ]

Actually you can ... with 4K and 60Hz HDR10+ and DV is possible over HDMI2.0
And from what I gathered, the shield "should" be able to support it.
If you want 8K or 4K@120Hz, then you will need HDMI2.1
Of course as always ... all devices in the chain have to support it.

I am just repeating what I discovered as per spec and standard of those pieces of hardware.

 

[robv14001]

As far as Roku, from what I understand you saying, you are incorrect. The Roku does not support any of the lossless audio codecs, not even in pass through. So this has nothing to do with the horsepower of a device it's just not supported. Which makes sense as that is just not what they are made for at this time. But you are right about embedded Roku's in a TV. They suck and are underpowered

I assume this was in reference to my post. I did not mean to imply Roku supports lossless audio codecs. In my experience, Roku is just as bad as the other boxes when it comes to higher-quality audio. The real take-home message in my post of course was: PLEX + NVIDIA SHIELD is a good combination if you want lossless audio and 1080p. My buddy does the same thing and some of his movies are 4K, and he's never complained.

In general:

I have a 4K TV, but I don't notice a big difference between 1080p (and 720p) and 4K. (Compared to my old 1080p TV, I think the new, native-4K TV does a better job with 720p, which I assume has something to do with the geometry.) From the User Manual I downloaded from AMAZON for the $150 SHIELD: "Watching 4K content from SHIELD TV requires a 4K display with HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 support." My personal ignorance of using 4K made me forget the bandwidth requirements for 4K; I'd think, however, that 10/100 is surely enough for lossless 1080p. With gigabit, there are surely no worries. (PLEX shows bandwidth requirements.)

I also ran across this in the $150 SHIELD User Manual: "NOTE If you have a 4K or HDR TV, you must attach HDMI 2.0 compatible cables between both the SHIELD and the AVR and between the AVR and the display. Your AVR must also be compatible with HDMI 2.0 (HDCP 2.2) signal." The part here about HDCP 2.2 I believe is what was causing the problem for me before I switched to a HDCP 2.2 AVR. I ASSUME: SHIELD was talking to a 4K TV, so it required HDCP 2.2 to pass the lossless audio. Whatever the cause was of PLEX sending transcoded audio to a HDCP 2.0 AVR -- problem went away with a HDCP 2.2 AVR -- when I complained to NVIDIA, they seemed to make a change in the OS, but I could never get it to work. Maybe it does now (change has been fixed?), but it's been a while since I got an OS upgrade from NVIDIA. Since I started using a HDCP 2.2 AVR, I lost interest in figuring out if the HDCP 2.0 AVR works with PLEX under SHIELD.

I've been able to play everything I've downloaded with AS on my SHIELD+PLEX setup. I want HD video (1080p if I can get it) more than lossless audio, but compressed audio (e.g., 640kbps, which is the best I ever see streaming with AS) is not bad at all. And with MakeMKV for DVDs and BDs, even the preferable lossless audio soundtracks play perfectly with SHIELD+PLEX. FWIW, I use a SONY TV and a Denon AVR. All my SONY 400-DVD Changers died years ago. My SONY 400-BD Changer has been brain-dead since day one. All these "Changer movies" are now in my private, unshared "PLEX data area" now, and I rarely use a mechanical player to watch a movie. I got tired of having to replace mechanical players. Not to mention that with a mechanical player it could take minutes just to get a movie going, but with PLEX it's just the click of an icon.

 

[cartman0208]

I have a 4K TV, but I don't notice a big difference between 1080p (and 720p) and 4K

IMO that depends much on the screen size and the material you're watching ... on a 55" 4K screen with 10 ft away you probably won't notice anything. On my 75" screen I notice a big difference between e.g a movie grabbed from an UHD disk and a 1080p movie I downloaded with AnyStream...

 

[DQ]

My personal ignorance of using 4K made me forget the bandwidth requirements for 4K; I'd think, however, that 10/100 is surely enough for lossless 1080p. With gigabit, there are surely no worries. (PLEX shows bandwidth requirements.)

With gig, yes not an issue. 10mb no way. 100mb probably in most cases but it depends on the movie. Some are much larger than others and will eat more bandwidth. And I am referring to things ripped from a disc. Obviously streaming platforms transcode/trim a good bit. But I know for a fact 100mb is not enough for most 4k (ripped from disc). This is why I have to use the wifi on the Roku to move those and that works well enough. So I am cool with 4K HDR10+ and transcoded audio. I rather sacrifice some of the video for the video personally speaking.

 

[coopervid]

I repeat myself. Post #6. No compromizes regarding video and audio.

 

[coopervid]

...and since MKV profile 8 is not supported by Oppo there are ways to make those profile 7 DV compatible. The outcome quality is proven by the experts to be better than HDR .

DolbyVision Iso erstellen aus einer Profil8 BL+RPU MKV

Profil8 BL+RPU MKV sind diese Hybrid MKVs in der sich das DV mit in den Film gemacht wurde und diese können dann nur an solch Android Playern wiedergegeben werden oder als m2ts am Oppo da das gerade für die CloneOppo Nutzer eher unbefriedigend ist durch ihre Einschränkungen hab ich mir einen...

forum.redfox.bz

English tutorial available on request.

 

[DQ]

I repeat myself. Post #6. No compromizes regarding video and audio.

It's not the same thing really. I get what you are saying and I am sure it is correct but the setups we are discussing offer other functionality and ease of use. Especially when you are talking distributing to multiple devices/TVs. Raw performance is not what is being talked about in this thread. If that is what I was after I would not be using Roku. Eventually either Roku and the like will update or Shield will. It's a toss up who does it first given the market.

 

[coopervid]

You can feed an Oppo clone with SMB1 from a NAS and have there folders / categories. Enlighten me what's missing.