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ReClock chitchat

Off-topic: this story needs to be told, took yet another vintage PC from the "warehouse", very nice almost audio grade looking aluminium barebone (AC97sound) based on socket478 (1.7GHz Celeron Willamette/128K cache/180 nm/63.5W TDP), this is serious heating-transfer piece of old machinery hah. Put ReClock 1.8.6.0 + SRC dll into work (most of the background processes were killed):

=> FLAC <20%cpu @ 44.1kHz / and / 128k mp3 radio stream <95%cpu @ 88.2kHz (Best Sinc setting)
=> temp36°C and falling under bit exact; under upsampling temp46°C and rising..

+ ReClock works nicely from DVB-T usb dongle too!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_4
(Pentium4 TDP list) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Pentium_4_microprocessors#Northwood_.28130_nm.29
(Celeron TDP list) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Celeron_microprocessors#.22Northwood-128.22_.28130_nm.29
Such are the technological wonders of yesteryear..

I'll probably exchange the fans for modern quiet ball bearing stock (or just decrease voltage/rpm on that noisy guy inside PSU), new thermal grease, and add some Sweex CMI 96kHz PCI card on Dogbert's GPL drivers, perhaps look for the latest P4 cpu revision on this socket to decrease the heat/sound signature if possible, and it will pump hot air, ehm music in another room. Nice experiment would be sourcing 2nd hand full P4 Northwood/1.6GHz/512K with TDP <40W or lowest P4 HT (TDP 66W) 2.4GHz. Alternatively, one could/should discard those energy hungry internals for good and replace it with modern nano/mini mobo with PCI slot, but hey it was on zero budget so far..

I'll match the alu box with nice ext. tin box w. scroll volu-ps2-mouse hack, so far the floppy donated nice sturdy bearing and provisional knob (details described earlier)..
 
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Thanks for the link, but those vintage PC projects of mine are just for fun,
so 10-20EUR for Sweex sound upgrade is the way to experiment. Also these old PCs have got quite attrocious USB noise and related issues, so any DAC connected would only suffer.

My main audio-video rig is build around dual core Atom ION and if you recall my test published here, ReClock b62 is doing very fine in multithread on that platform, that's where I'll likely add a proper DAC, that' why I'm still researching how to proceed..
 
bang for bucks is stellar on the CMI chips w/ dogbert's drivers for sure :agree:

and the PSU on the Monitor 02 looks pretty weak too, I wouldn't trust the massive EMI it must throw onto the audio circuits or its reliability a few years down the road(I'll prolly sell it in a few months anyway :D).
 
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hah, indeed...the stock 8738 drivers output 14bit over S/PDIF: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=49350&st=75

nasty :D

and I've been told that the precision driver on the Musiland only support 16/32bit and that KS doesn't run in exclusive mode on XP.

there's also an "auto" sample rate button, but only on XP...it was the same for the Envy24 drivers, Vista/7 are indeed evil.
 
Another tidbit form the land of integration, remotes, ..
This Enermax Aurora looks as very promising human-interface-device, in fact this is rumored to be the world's very first wirless keyboard-laser trackball-scroll wheel combo plus it's beaming the way it should be on RF/2.4GHz (comes in black brushed aluminium too, yay): http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/710/2

So, for less than 2x price of Griffin Powermate usb volume knob this baby delivers significantely more oh..
(e.g. think about that wireless scroll-wheel mapped via volumouse among other things)

btw. I'm long time user, almost 10yrs of the original ATI Remote Wonder (and the late Plus rev.), it was the only usable RF remote available on the market (no infra or BT kind of joke!) with many great free add-on plugins (MPC, VLC, Winamp, Powerpoint, ..), now discontinued. Probably, I'll keep wondering till my very last day, which corporate moron pulled the plug on this great product? http://ati.amd.com/products/remotewonderplus/index.html

--
btw. it would be nice to have similar front end gui for MPC-HC/ReClock with basic controls incl. coverart preview.
Also choosing upsample rates/native/bit perfect on the fly ala PS Audio PW DAC (in our case done by auto restart/relaunch of mpc player/reclock), LeeP was advocating for basic functionality along these lines..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF0VFbTCxtk&feature=related (0:30)
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Thermaltake/Luxa2_LM300_Touch_Pro/5.html (scroll bottom) /Vectir template candidate for their MPC-HC plugin!
http://www.madtech.pl/pliki/zalman/hd160xtc/hd160xt_05.jpg

I guess it could be hacked by auto hotkeys, stream info plugin into the player, and some java/flash gfx output.
It has been available for Winamp for ages on the RoadRunner (mp3car) front end.

Perhaps, the new Slysoft Player in maximized window will be the platform of the future and capable of doing all that.
James & team> in any case please make it play .ogg and .flac internet streams, I'm sick of switching between MPC/VLC/Winamp all the time, and don't forget proper album list/folders feature ala that famous winamp plugin, thks
 
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a friend of mine is nuts about this RF ATi remote..doing all kind of macros and stuff, but quite frankly I just like the idea of having a big aluminium volume pot, I'd even dare to say that it was an old dream of mine :D

yep, but the latency is quite annoying on wireless keyboards from what I've tried so far...it's acceptable on mice, because well...it's so handy!

anyway, I've checked many forums...it looks like my money will go on the Musiland Monitor for sure...too bad you have to wait 3" to swich sample rates, but well it's so damn cheap and yet the specs seem so impressive :agree:
 
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Hint for the prospective HTPC builders out there, you might consider Atom Ion 330 (dual core) as we discussed/successfully tested with ReClock here, but recently a special edition incl. one PCI slot has come out, at the moment the best are from Zotac and Asus. In this fashion you can add top PCI soundcard (if you don't fancy usb solutions), e-sata transportable storage for FLACs, etc. I think that Asus (AT3N7A-I) has got onboard BT dongle, and Zotan's line adds onboard wify instead, these are affordable mobos with integrated dual core CPU and full HD gfx chip, silent, low power..

This is an example of bit older atom based project, the magic here is to use touchscreen w. LED backlight (Lilliput 629GL-70NP)
http://www.cknetstudio.com/Main.php?pagecount=5&id=85

--

c15803.jpg


In terms of suggested cases, in the [good looks&finish(anodized)/small factor/PCI riser/ext. PSU/not uber expensive..]
category Travla/Casetronic brand seems to be the best option out there. For the audiophiles the C158 model with clean
frontend (DVD drive/usb connectors mounted sideways) looks most appealing..

(mini-itx family) http://www.travla.com/product.php?c1=0000000004&c2=
(more pictures of c158model) http://www.directron.com/c158.html http://www.logicsupply.com/products/c158b_60w
(if PCI is not needed C287, nice rubberpads there!) http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1057/2/

--
edit:

Interesting integration & interaction HTPC control project using internet tablet ala Nokia 770/800/810 as wireless remote, this needs either server demon playing audio files + php control over web browser (as decribed in that 2006 linux project), or standalone software player (w. plugins) which allows for that via LAN network "http remote" (VLC/MPC-HC?), such basic wireless tablet might be more practical than just Lilliput 7" touchpad style device on very short vga cable.. Or you can go with new stuff, real pda like Open Pandora or Archos 5 style internet tablet (but these are more expensive as opposed to 2nd hand Nokia 770/800/810 tablets)..

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9175
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Tablet
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1051311

or google nokia 770/ as remote

Note:
Most of the plugins/solutions seem to be made for the popular opensource XBMC platform, so perhaps a point of departure for us Sly_playerists.. http://wiki.xbmc.org/?title=The_Web_Interface

-
!The easiest general setup (not XBMC exclusive) is to run remote desktop via your Nokia 770/..
videos here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9wcEpVa7ps
Install VNC viewer on the handheld (sourced from Maemo - Nokia's Linux OS website)
and run a VNC protocol client on the host PC like tightvnc (or other VNC compatible).
-
!!As above but with hacked firmware, i.e. we get better overall performance from the device,
plus better software options (native VNC), Firmware: Internet Tablet OS 2007 Hacker Edition for the 770 (or newer)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPRlR_tBAtQ&feature=related
or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aQ62PLi4BQ&feature=related Canola app.
-
ex. of similar N770 project "MCEGuru" primarily for WinMCE (french product?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CII2crrTEe0&feature=related
http://www.mceguru.com/
Linux touchscreen mini-box, what's that? Can we use it..
-
another platform like older (2nd hand) Archos 605wf (w. Qtopia) can be VNC enabled as well (seems sluggish though):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv8bb4v2Jgw
-
old PSP/wifi handheld can be utilized in XBMC as well (perhaps also via VNC in linux distro but it is slow/small LCD)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0C1DfCAohg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SreQg1c-VY
-
with XBMC over "http-remote" interface works pretty much everything, incl. PDAs (WM5/6; forum mentions even older WM 2003 SE) via wifi "XBrunzMC PocketPC" which is optimized for this goal: http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?t=33021
(only for stock XBMC player, no detailed support for ext. player obviously)
/dark bodied HP rx3715 or higher as refurb to complement eyecatching audio components? Ipaq works also as IR control..
/Installing optimized certain Linux distro (w. VNC viewer) over iPaq/Winmobile might get smoother VNC, haven't tested it yet..
Ipaq 4700 seems to most developed: http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/SupportedHandheldSummary

!!! [.NET VNC Viewer] - opensource VNC client with full screen option and more (reportedly better than RealVNC CE beta)
http://dotnetvnc.sourceforge.net/

vnc_ppc.jpg

http://www.realvnc.com/products/beta/ce/ here kitty: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=445903

!!!UltraVNC (free) now supports even Java client/viewer->server side, so you can control from anything sitting on net and with Java enabled browser only! http://www.uvnc.com/features/javaviewer.html

!!!There are even Mobile VNC servers, so you not just view but have control over that distant PC attached to wifi capable mobile device (incl. file transfer), so this is sort of W/LAN router like extension.. http://www.pocketvnc.com/blog/?page_id=7

Firmware hacked PSP can also work with VNC, but it is comparatively useless Sony like joke:
for the same price, no touch or precise desktop navigating arrows, slow scrolling, slow bootup, ..

---
more here: http://forum.slysoft.com/showpost.php?p=245886&postcount=391
 
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Yes, that sounds as a plan, however I'd rather wait for the first confirmed I2S output hack from the Musiland 02 model (should be possible but didn't find any so far), because you might miss on that one later. I think the floodgates on I2S for low-mid segment are just opening up and there will be no looking back, when the chinese DAC clones take it a standard feature.. :bowdown:
The Spdifs of the world shall be buried deep & down.
 
I have to admit that I'm under the impression that everyone w/ the right skills likes the challenge of tapping out I2S out of anything...but I hardly ever see any DAC w/ BNC S/PDIF, let alone I2S.

if it takes a 4 figures DAC to get I2S, then it's completely pointless to me....plus what I care for is bit-perfect KS, and I will get this from the musiland.
 
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Pls. refer to the previous discussions&links. Yes, I agree even Spdif over BNC starts to appear rather slowly (Musiland, M2Tech on special order), to my knowledge I2S appeared only recently (~1yr) on the highend JAVS/ESI usb DACs, to speak about the mortals can buy hardware sort of level.

However, I2S output is not just a fetish toy of the solder iron gurus, it has practical and very real effects on final SQ. For instance, that's why PS Audio demos this feature in their PW Dac and Transport combo, the difference between native sound (I2S) in comparison to Spdif inputs is very noticable even on shitty speakers, jaws are dropping.

Who said multi-thousand budget? You can get the same result with Musiland/M2tech usb devices (enabled/hacked I2S)connected to ~$250 DAC-preamp kit from TP's[BuffaloII(ESS) or Opus(Wolf)]/AMB Gamma2-LinuxWorks-duino/.. based on the same Wolf chip as the big guys. The estimate on total cost depends on couple of variables, beside the stock kit, people might get fancy with the additional stuff like connectors, cabling, casing. But Wolf based (TP's Opus+2xArduino+Musiland usb ala glt's hifiduino) as bare working circuits should be done (w. out labor costs) ~$300, a complete boxed-finalized <$500. Double that for BuffaloII (ESS 32bit), but that's true high end, even better than PS Audio PW DAC (Wolf based).

Ok, I'll give it to you on that one, lets say you hire someone to mod your M2tech hiFace for I2S output, plus building the I2S input capable DAC from the kit, test it all.. You are still looking at <<<$1k pricetag (for Wolf chip version) in comparison to uber expensive commercial solutions. Obviously you don't get the same advanced buffer/lense or the network bridge as with PS Audio, but the basic detouring around stinky Spdif is there at 1/3 - 1/6 of their price.

Demanding bit-perfect kernel YES, I'am all for it (and trying hard), but that's NOT the end of the SQ story, we should be looking for the next available horizont, because you are still getting the original signal destroyed via ~30yr old Spdif, that's why here comes I2S.

Let's say you have found your utlimate PCI soundcard and opamp combo, you can't drive big headphones and certainly not big speakers directly, you need a preamp (amp), you have to connect these boxes (also integrated usb-spdif DACs are not good as we learned earlier in this thread), analog or digital Spdif will always sound worse to proper I2S -> preamp -> headphone/speaker pathway..

On the downside, for practical purposes, short wiring necessary, the best option is to have usb-I2S card/usb dongle very close to that receiving DAC-preamp or integrated in the box.
 
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yes, from what I read I2S kills S/PDIF on pretty much every level...but as usual, it will be used as a gimmick.

like on this device: http://headphonia.com/USB-DAC-Stick....html?XTCsid=24d9f1a36d0dfc744ed89f0d33f2c335

I2S AHMAGAD, but then it goes through a crappy OPA2134 in the end :D

but now that I'm decided to get the Musiland 02, it's chinese new year and noone can ship it to me before the 1st of March...bummer!

anyway, I was told that its HP out sounds great on the cd3k...so I'll try that before going tubey.

and the musiland uses async USB...either I will use the built-in HP amp(OP275 does sound good!) or will connect it in analog to a tube amp of some sort....I don't care much for either I2S, S/PDIF or AES-EBU tbh
 
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I don't think that Headphonia example is much relevant to our previous discussion and recommendations (maybe they deliver in their next gen product), but you are probably right that many vendors will just highjack the "I2S" buzzword and run with it, sadly that's to be expected..

Btw. TwistedPear website has been just updated, you can get the best high end DAC a poor man's wallet possibly can afford, BuffaloII (3rd gen): balanced output, direct S/PDIF, I2S and DSD data input formats, .. assembled and tested module for $250, so with additional powersupplies & toroids/transformers (~$40 x 2-3, ~60$ x 2-3x), the IVY-III balanced active I/V line stage with optional filtering IVYII ouput stage ($100), optional digital volume module & firmware ($30), suitable Hammond/Modushop case or similar, IEC power safety module and various connectors/bit & pieces, and Musiland/M2tech hiFace, it's still <$1k and it will rock the house even on Spdif input only (you can leave the I2S adventures for laters). You can also feed with it *headphones directly (with balanced cabling) or even shitty stereo grade amp/preamp for speakers and it will do wonders.. http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/digital/buffalo.aspx

*in similar straightforward layout of the Buffalo's previous gen (as that usb board to the right imagine Musiland/M2tech instead):
http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=762

Overview and wiring schematics for multi-input "mux" version (more also at TwistedP gallery forum):
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/twisted-pear-buffalo-sabre-dac-317919/index82.html#post6279525
 
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sounds like a headache to get all together :D

and a true unbridged balanced HP amp costs an arm an a leg...for very little actual improvement from what some ppl say.

I'm kinda looking for an all-in-one "OMG" solution, hopefully the monitor02 will deliver it! the cd3k is dead easy to drive, even a CMI8738 sounds amazing tbh...it's not like a pesky hd650 or k702, that need mad gear to sound good :disagree:

BTW, I can fully understand why the 16 mins cut of this hit song got so huge in the late 70's: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...a-Don't+Let+Me+Be+Misunderstood&aq=f&aqi=&oq=

Tarantino sure has the right ppl to select his soundtracks! the remastered edition of their full album w/ this title song sounds so damn good(and I usually hate disco)...the SS and instruments separation is just fantastic :agree:
 
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leeperry said:
sounds like a headache to get all together :D
Click to expand...

The kit pioneers like AMB/TwistedPear + community like glt & linuxworks have already done the major software and hardware exploratory work (for ESS and Wolf chips user controlled via duino boards). Now when the dust settles down, it will be very easy for the beginners-diyers, just following these steps: buy the assembled kits + few additional parts, internal wire it exactly "copy cat style" (according to a reference project), upload/update opensource software, and hit the play button.. Obviously, after gaining some confidence, you can tweak, upgrade here and there.

This will explode in similar manner as cheap poweramp kits had done, basically you get the SQ of PS Audio PW DAC for even less than 1/6 of their price, however without some of their HID/connectivity features at the moment understandably, like touchscreen, LAN bridge/lense etc., but no sweat..
 
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yes ok, bring the Chinese clones!

cool I got my cmi8768, will try it later today 8)
 
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CMI8768 in da house, cool! Would it be possible to test/meassure the performance between stock and Dogbert's GPL drivers though? Specifically, the noise level, dynamic range, and stereo crosstalk - there are many free applications available for this task (RightMark Audio Analyzer). That previously linked russian (x-bit) comparative review (also including CMI chips/cards) scared me a bit, as 8738 scored even marginally worse than Realtec ALC850, the CMI8768 was much better (clear winner), but I don't recall they used the GPL drivers, I doubt it since published way back in Q4/2006.
And the noise floor was quite shallow w. spikes anyway for GPL (as it is rumored to be cleaning everything out)..
Thanks http://www.ixbt.com/multimedia/cmi8768.shtml http://audio.rightmark.org/products/rmaa.shtml
 
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well, there's really no need for any RMAA tbh...I can run 100% master volume and there's no hissing noise whatsoever, the stereo image also seems more nervous(better jitter?)..it was very flabby on the 8738.

also, no 88.2/96kHz in analog..I've tried everything, I've reported the issue to dogbert.

only been running it for 10 mins so far, but it's impressive what 10 bucks can buy you these days for sure! I'm sure the Musiland Monitor 02 will blow me away :D
 
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