Meet the Robinsons

Discussion in 'AnyDVD HD (DVD issues)' started by boobear1998, Oct 17, 2007.

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  1. mike20021969

    mike20021969 Well-Known Member

    i was about to suggest filehippo for your archive Jon,but they're still showing 6.1.3.2 as the latest one.
     
  2. Jon der Zehn

    Jon der Zehn Member

    Thanks!

    Thanks! I've just read some of the earlier posts and it seems that disabling the AI Scanner is essentially the same thing as the earlier version of AnyDVD when it comes to backing up "Meet The Robinsons."

    Thanks again!
     
  3. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    Just use the latest beta (and enable AI scanner): click http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=8947
     
  4. fordman

    fordman Well-Known Member

    I found an issue on this title when using 6.1.9.0 beta with AI enabled and PUO removal enabled. It seems to play fine with PowerDVD through the chapter 15 and 16 areas where people were having issues, but I found a problem when the PUO removal is enabled. I routinely remove PUOs so that I can skip past warning screens, etc., though sometimes I've found that you can get unexpected results when all PUOs are removed. For instance, if subtitle or audio menus were supressed because they don't exist, and you enable the ability to use the audio and subtitle button on the remote....well sometimes the DVD will freeze, stop playing or end up on an entirely different menu.

    Here's what happened:

    1. I enabled the AI scanner (this happens both at the default and deep scanning levels) and PUO removal.

    2. I jumped right to the title screen (root does the same thing) to get to the title screen.

    3. I selected play and began using the next button to skip past the warning screens, and stopped skipping while the last warning screen was still playing.

    4. The last chapter of the movie is next thing playing, with the credits rolling! Yes, not just at chapter two or something, but right to the end!

    5. I started over, ejecting the DVD, and restarting PowerDVD - same issue.

    6. I started over, and tried bonus features. All worked fine until I got to the audio commentary. This is one of those commentaries that begins playing with the movie immediately after you select it. I skipped warning screens, and I encountered the same issue as noted in 4 above.

    7. I disabled AI scanning, and ran through the previous steps, and I now CAN skip all the warning screens and when I'm done with the last one, the movie plays right at the beginning where it should! I found that if I did NOT press NEXT with the AI scanning enabled, the movie would play at the beginning as expected, and I suppose that if I therefore disable PUO removal, all would be OK with AI scanning enabled, but I wouldn't be able to skip the warning screens like I want...

    CONCLUSION: There are STILL issues with AI scanning. Previous renditions have been shown (per the release notes) to mistakenly remove sections of playable content. DVDFab had similar issues with its PathPlayer technology, and as a safety feature it does a scan to see if the title needs the extra technology, and if not, it disables it for the rip. Perhaps Slysoft should consider the same safety precaution? It seems very likely that as new protection schemes are released, they will cause AI scanning to choke in some manner, and perhaps that will even be targeted now by the copy protection developers, essentially turning AnyDVD against itself to make the customer waste discs on bad backups... As new protection schemes are released it seems that AI will never be "foolproof."

    QUESTION: Especially on this particular title, is there any reason I WOULD NOT want to disable AI scanning to back it up? It seems to work without any added unintended affects that AI introduces, so wouldn't that be preferable? Are there any advantages, i.e., is AI finding additional protections that are not found with it disabled, thereby getting rid of more artifacts left over from the copy protection removal? It just seems like the old, pre-AI methods are BEST if they will work. But then again, AnyDVD states that disabling it is "not recommended." Why?

    RECOMMENDATION: Keep AI disabled and try to back up first. Only if you encounter problems should you then try to rip with it enabled.

    Regards,
    fordman
     
  5. James

    James Redfox Development Team Staff Member

    No, you can disable it.
     
  6. Charlie

    Charlie Well-Known Member

    The latest beta should handle meet the robinsons with the AI Scanner enabled at default.
     
  7. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    Fordman claims it doesn't handle it properly (if you are trying to skip by warning messages).
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2007
  8. Charlie

    Charlie Well-Known Member

    Thanks, I'll test it now.
     
  9. freddyy99

    freddyy99 Member

    I have backed up my copy of Meet the Robinsons with the "skip to menu" feature enabled using the new beta, 6.1.9.0, and the copy worked perfectly!
    As always, thanks to James and the team for all the great work that they do.:bowdown:
     
  10. Charlie

    Charlie Well-Known Member

    Playback on the HDD was fine as well for me too but I had jump to menu enabled as well.
     
  11. fordman

    fordman Well-Known Member

    That's not the skipping I was referring to - I left the intro previews, etc. enabled (did not choose the "remove annoying adverts and trailers" option).

    The "skipping" I was referring to is once you start playing the movie, either from the "Play" button on the main screen or by selecting the commentary option in the bonus features, I press the "next" button on the remote to make it go to the next warning screen. The last one (FBI warning) cannot be skipped, but it can be fast-forwarded. Anyway, when the FBI screen is done, it began playing at the credits, at the end of the movie.

    UPDATE: I just checked it again to list these details, and now I'm finding that it it WILL play at the beginning with AI scanning and PUO removal enabled... The ONLY thing I did between both trials was that I burned 3 DVD images I had on my hard drive to free up space. When it was happening it was repeatable. Then I burned 3 DVDs, and now it is working OK repeatedly. If I can find the conditions to cause it again, I'll report back.

    In the meantime I'll keep AI disabled until I find that I need it. The differences in the drive status window do lead me to believe that AI is either more thorough in removing copy protection remenants, or it is providing more detail on what it finds, so it still seems quite promising.

    Thanks,
    fordman
     
  12. Charlie

    Charlie Well-Known Member

    Thanks fordman, when all possible I do use remove annoying adverts and trailers myself.
     
  13. PHANTOM1939

    PHANTOM1939 Well-Known Member

    Thanx Webslinger

    I'm sorry if this is going into the wrong place.... After wasting 2 discs on MEET THE ROBINSONS, I decided to take a look at the forum. I came across a suggestion by Webslinger to 'disable my AI Scanner'. Thank you.... The grandkids just finished watching the backup and my original gets put away like the rest. This forum is a powerful tool. I try to read it as often as I can. In this case I was 2 discs too late, but thanx anyway. I don't know if I can say this on the forum, but.....I'm an avid ANYDVD and CLONEDVD2 user. I recieve my updates regularly and use nothing else. Once again, thanx Webslinger and keep up the good work..........Pops
     
  14. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    Hi,

    If you haven't already, please ensure you're using Anydvd 6.1.9.0 beta:
    click http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=8947
     
  15. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    Hmm. You aren't forced to watch all the warning screens? If not, it seems to me that 6.1.9.0 worked fine.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2007
  16. fordman

    fordman Well-Known Member

    Yes, with AI and PUO removal enabled, I'm still forced to watch the FBI (which was the last info/warning screen), but this time the movie begins playing at the beginning instead of starting at the end of the movie at the credits, like it did in my first trial.

    So, yes, I agree that because of the difference in my first and 2nd trial, the variability was likely caused by something on my computer (memory contents, etc.) that caused the odd behavior. Therefore it appears 6.1.9.0 fixed the issues with AI on this title.

    However, because of my observations on how many titles AI actually broke working backups (e.g. Blades of Glory), I'll continue leaving it disabled as my default, and only experiment with it if I have issues at that setting. I like to make a backup and move on, and I dont' want to have to watch the backup all the way through to ensure it is OK each time I make one, especially if I've just watched the original. Since AI is in it's "infancy" and as of yet is getting stuck on unique DVD structures (e.g., Lost Season 2 and now the cell interleaving on Meet the Robinsons), I have to assume that it will continue choking on unique DVD structures and producing corrupt backups, at least until every possible DVD structure is encountered, reported and fixed. Once AI scanning has matured to that point, it might be trustworthy, unless of course DVD protection makers begin introducing more odd structures to confuse AnyDVD's AI....

    In summary, it appears that Meet the Robinsons works fine with AI scanning on Meet the Robinsons, though I made mine with it disabled and watched that backup, which played fine all the way through, as well as the special features.

    fordman
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2007
  17. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator


    That doesn't seem right to me then.


    6.1.9.0 handles Blades of Glory perfectly fine--and also probably won't work properly with A.I. scanner disabled.
     
  18. fordman

    fordman Well-Known Member

    It doesn't seem right that I'm still forced to watch the FBI screen even though I have PUO removal enabled? I think I know why, and I've encountered it before even with other decrypters that feature PUO removal, i.e., DVD Decrypter, DVDFab, etc. It seems to matter whether the menu is comprised of actual video (i.e. mpeg converted to vob), or whether it is a still frame with a certain display time specified. I've found that when using PUO removal, the former type can be skipped, while the latter will not allow you to skip it.

    Anyway, my original observation was that I could skip the intro/warning screens until I got to the FBI screen, which I had to let run, and then the movie would start playing at the credits. After burning some DVDs I ran another trial and it behaved the same through the FBI screen, but began playing at the beginning as it should.

    I think I was likely not communicating my observations clearly enough - the conclusion was that I agreed that because of the difference in my trials, it was likely an issue on my end and not because of AnyDVD's AI on this title.

    The point I was making was that there has been a pattern of issues that AI has had with titles as they are being released.

    According to the release notes Blades of Glory was broken in 6.1.7.1, and AI was not added until 6.1.8.4. There are threads that noted that with 6.1.8.4 Blades of Glory was broken again, though I'd have to go back to see if it was later discovered to work with AI turned off. However, the advice in the threads at the time was to uninstall 6.1.8.4 and re-install 6.1.7.4 to decrypt Blades of Glory.

    So, unless the "OLD" method coding was somehow downgraded between 6.1.7.1 (which worked when AI didn't exist) and 6.1.9.0, then 6.1.9.0 should be able to decrypt Blades of Glory with AI scanning disabled since it would resort to the method that 6.1.7.1 used - right?

    I realize that the potential power of AI scanning is that it could possibly break a new protection without further tinkering by Slysoft, but the track history so far is that it has required tinkering after new titles are released (as in Meet the Robinsons), or sometimes even break old titles (as in Blades of Glory). Right now the risks seem to outweigh the benefits, but other than another 20 minutes or so, I think a good compromise is to try decrypting without AI scanning (old method) and only turn it on if you fail this way...that's my approach from now on. Of course this could be automated in AnyDVD like DVDFab does - it scans to see if it's PathPlayer technology is needed, and if not it disables it and proceeds with normal decryption.

    By the way, I see that you edited my previous post yesterday! Why? I'm sure I had no profanity, which would seem like the only legitimate reason for a moderator to modify another member's post.... If it was to correct some obvious grammatical error, thanks, but I hope no content was removed.

    fordman
     
  19. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    Yes.

    O.k. that makes sense.

    Perhaps there's nothing Anydvd can really do about that then, and if so, 6.1.9.3 handles this disc properly (or, at least, as best as it can).

    Actually, I was the one maintaining the sticky threads updating information about discs that didn't work properly. 6.1.8.4 handles Blades of Glory fine, provided you didn't backup extras. Otherwise, 6.1.8.4 wouldn't work. 6.1.8.6 onwards handled Blades of Glory perfectly fine.

    You're mistaken, but that's understandable as you don't understand how A.I. scanner works. I'm not willing to reveal what I know unless someone from Slysoft does so first (a few people here know what I mean).

    Pathfinder, at the moment, is more bugged than AI scanner is (8 Below --Japan, a disc where both programs mess up, is one example), and your comments here really underscore that you don't understand how the A.I. scanner works.

    Oh. I didn't edit what you wrote, but rather what I wrote (what you quoted) due to slight paranoia on my part. If I had edited the contents of your post, you would have seen a reason.

    And swearing is not the only reason why I would modify a member's post.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2007
  20. fordman

    fordman Well-Known Member

    Hi Webslinger,

    First of all, let me say that I respect your knowledge and opinion, and above all else I appreciate the time you spend helping users like me.

    I've been a licensed Slysoft (AnyDVD, CloneDVD, CloneCD, CloneDVD Mobile) user for about a year. I purchased a DVDFab license recently when I found AnyDVD was unable to handle Blades of Glory, and contrary to usual Slysoft response, AnyDVD couldn't handle it for quite some time (I believe there was a delay in getting the DVD to Antigua from what I read), so I don't hold that against Slysoft. However, it impressed me that within a day of it's release, fengtao had DVDFab already working with this title. I actually used his free product and was so impressed, I decided to add it to my arsenal as a backup for those rare occasions when AnyDVD is stumped on a new title. I've only used the other product for decrypting, so in retrospect I could have did without DVDFab. I found that CloneDVD is soooo much more polished and capable when deleting specific titles from a movie, and CloneDVD also cleans up the protection remnants much better.

    From the DVDFab forum on CDFreaks, fengtao revealed in general terms how PathPlayer works - it examines all the user selectable buttons on all menus and follows/logs what plays as a result. Anything that isn't played as a result of a user selection is likely copy protection and can therefore be stripped.

    You are right - I don't know the specifics of how AI scanning works, but I would hazard a guess that it works something similar to the description I wrote of how PathPlayer works, with some basic structure checks in addition. I'd be really surprised if I'm wrong, but if I am, I can live with that, because I don't need to know how it works, but I DO know the results of it's actions, and that's what is important to a user like myself. From my point of view, it has failed or otherwise caused more problems than it fixed. However, I attribute that to the fact that it's new. You are correct that PathPlayer has similar, and maybe worse bugs than AI scanning, and fengtao recognized the possible consequences of that and made it's use a fallback - if a particular title doesn't need it, then it is disabled and ripped via the old method... My opinion is that AnyDVD should follow a similar approach, but I can replicate that by disabling it manually and only enabling it if I encounter problems.

    OK, thanks for addressing that. I didn't perceive that you had revealed anything you shouldn't or otherwise wrote anything inappropriate, but you're the best judge of that.

    Kind Regards,
    fordman
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2007
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