Maybe you should not upgrade to Vista

Discussion in 'Third Party Products' started by James, Feb 10, 2007.

  1. PrincipalityFusion

    PrincipalityFusion Well-Known Member

    Honestly, from the sound of his other posts, he would believe that only to have something to argue with someone else about.
     
  2. ocgw

    ocgw Well-Known Member

    Honestly, spoken like a true lemming lol j/k

    Somebody once asked me if I had a good reason NOT to switch, to which I replied, "shouldn't I need a good reason TO switch" (spend my money)

    In the end Sammy is right, I will be forced to pay for this upgrade:rolleyes: (lateral move at best) because all the other lemmings did

    Remember the discussion about what constitutes a "fact", it is a demonstrable fact that XP sp3 is faster than Vista, and Windows 7 isn't finalized, so my willingness to debate aside, there is pretty solid ground for my position

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/xp-vs-vista,1531-11.html
    http://news.cnet.com/Windows-XP-outshines-Vista-in-benchmarking-test/2100-1016_3-6220201.html
    http://www.geek.com/articles/news/windows-xp-testing-faster-than-vista-in-2008-2007124/
    http://lifehacker.com/5076370/windows-7-preview-boots-20-faster-than-vista
    http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9065458
    http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2008/03/why_is_windows.html
    http://www.pcworld.com/article/139911/early_tests_say_sp3_speeds_windows_xp.html
    http://www.mobilecomputermag.co.uk/20071128181/windows-xp-faster-than-vista.html

    You thought I was makin' this chit up? lmao

    btw the only thing I see in Vista is a pretty desktop, & I already have Webshots w/ 800 pics for free

    pss. I got my phenom II @ 3.8Ghz 24/7 100% load stable running BD Rebuilder @ ALL HIGHEST SETTINGS turning out BD-9's in 7hrs that you could never tell from the originals in side by side testing son;)

    :bowdown::bowdown:

    The moral of the story is, "properly done you can have compression w/o loss of "quality" if an unnecessarily high bit rate was used in the source material"

    "Lead, follow, or get out of the way"

    "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't all out to get you"

    ocgw

    peace
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  3. Adbear

    Adbear Well-Known Member

    My answer to that is just because you can't see the difference between the original Blu-ray and a BD9 doesn't mean that others can't. I'd never shrink anything down to a BD9 as there will always be loss of picture quality no matter what you think.

    Also you may want to go back and check those articles, many are well over a year old and in some cases 2 years old and in some they even say that Vista is faster from a cold boot. And at least 3 of the articles you linked to are referencing the same source for their claims, a company who tested it on 1 laptop.
    In one of the articles they demonstrated it as a fact that from standby XP was quicker, but from Cold boot Vista was quicker.

    I also want to be able to use a more stable 64bit version of windows, 64bit XP is buggy as hell, and no one bothers to write the software or hardware drivers for editing hardware for it due to that reason.
    I hardly call it being a 'lemming' because we want to use something that works better, is more stable, and having read through the articles you posted seems to be faster running more applications from cold boot
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  4. ocgw

    ocgw Well-Known Member

    1) Have you ever shrank a blu ray down to BD-9 w/ BD Rebuilder @ the highest quality setting to KNOW for yourself, I have already stated that I have NEVER seen a blu ray shrink job that looked good until I tried it, but then again, I took absolutely no shortcuts;)

    I rebuilt my PC solely to accomplish this specific task8)

    2) I still have not heard a compelling reason to switch from a known proven OS other than all the other lemmings are doing it

    I argued your point for a full year, and after being argued down by many I decided to see for myself, time to get back in front of the learning curve

    Lead, follow, or get out of the way

    ocgw

    peace
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  5. Adbear

    Adbear Well-Known Member

    Yes I have, and it still doesn't look as good as the original Blu-ray unless the original is pretty crappy in the first place. There's a reason why the bitrates are so high which is always lost when shrinking down, especially when using something like BD rebuilder. even using x264 and manually setting everything using your own command lines you get a loss of quality. It's very rare you get complete transparency to the original unless you're looking at something like an mpeg2 original in which case you may be able to shrink it down without much loss. Try running them side by side on decent screens (50inch plus) and you'll start to see the difference, colours change slightly, the BD9 can look slightly softer, in high motion you get slight blocking or blurring that wasn't there in the original. A lot of things can only be seen when watching the film in motion and aren't that perceptible when looking at still shots

    I've already given a good reason to go to Vista, stable 64bit operation, and as stated in 1 of the articles you posted faster running of operations from cold boot on a higher percentage of programs than under XP

    The same could be said about 'lemmings' who are staying with XP because someone wrote an article 2 years ago saying Vista was rubbish and therefore they don't even try it. You will always get people who go one way or the other without ever finding out for themselves. I've done extensive testing my self (it's part of my job) and find no speed benefits to XP over Vista and like I said Vista 64 is much more stable than XP 64
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  6. ocgw

    ocgw Well-Known Member

    We will just have to agree to disagree on the first point, I am a convert, but I will tell you 1 thing if I had not seen it w/ my own eyes I would have bought 2 more 1500GB HDD's w/ my $300+ USD I just spent on my new cpu and hsf

    On the 2nd point, XP Pro 64bit is stable in my PC thank you very much;), sorry 'bout your luck

    ocgw

    peace
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  7. Adbear

    Adbear Well-Known Member

    but then you're probably not trying to use it with any real 64bit apps like editing software and 64bit hardware that's designed to take advantage of 64bit windows. Sure if you just install xp64 and use it just like that then it's unlikely to crash, but if you then want to use any halfway decent editing, or authoring packages then they just don't work well. There's a reason why they steered clear of 64bit XP and that's was due to it being to unstable for them to use properly. It caused them so many problems trying to get the software working that they dropped it in favour of an operating system that is much more stable
    It has nothing to do with my 'luck' I build editing systems for a living and have tested extensively and found XP64 to be very unstable when using in the realworld editing environment which is why it was never really used for anything like that
     
  8. ocgw

    ocgw Well-Known Member

    I am not impressed, I have been shooting and editing video for 15 years w/ various editing software, been building and selling PC's for 10 years

    XP 64bit just hasn't given me any problems sir

    What else can I tell you

    btw "They" are still building and selling expensive High-end professional Windows XP Pro Turnkey quad xeon video editing solutions everyday for ppl that aren't "impressed" w/ Vista either, so I don't know where you get your information from sir, just thought you should know

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/487180-REG/B_H_Photo__Adobe_Production_Premium_CS4.html
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/462171-REG/B_H_Photo__Avid_Liquid_Pro_7_0.html
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/514375-REG/B_H_Photo__Avid_Media_Composer_v3_0.html
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/487181-REG/B_H_Photo__Matrox_RT_X2_with_Premiere.html

    From what I have seen "serious" video editors don't even use Microsoft OS's

    btw, my reencodes still aren't softer, blocky, or blurred, I can see pores in their pores, and I see well enough to have scored expert rifle in the US Army LOL

    ps pls tell me you know that Windows XP 64bit Pro is based on Windows Server 2003, a known stable 64bit platform

    ocgw

    peace
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  9. Adbear

    Adbear Well-Known Member

    I'm not impressed that you can shoot a rifle.
    I get my information from building high end editing systems for nearly 10 years. 3 of the links you gave are for software only systems with no hardware cards involved and don't state whether they use 32 or 64bit windows. The fourth one is still using CS3 which is no longer sold with the RTX2 unless they have some old stock still lying around for which you won't be entitled to the free upgrade as it ran out before christmas
    To say that serious video editors don't use MS OS's is just wrong, we sell systems to TV and film companies as well as Advertising companies, and they all use PC based systems due to the lack of restriction and better realtime performance you can get out of them.

    As far as I'm aware Avid liquid never had any real Vista support as they stopped developing it and have no intentions of taking it further at this time.
    Avid Media Composer doesn't support XP64 but does support Vista 32 and 64
    The RTX2 only got 64 bit drivers in the CS4 drivers so it isn't supported under XP 64 in that package. And the CS4 suite is not validated to work on XP 64 either.
    If they were really serious about what they sell they'd be offering 64bit Vista so you can take advantage of the extra memory, especially with the CS4 suite and Media composer, and offering more up to date systems to run on than q6600 CPU's that run at 2.4ghz with 4GB of RAM
     
  10. ocgw

    ocgw Well-Known Member

    Funny how some guys can discount everyone elses links but never provide any

    bottomline: they make money selling that chit that you said they never really made

    ps. If you are unaware of the superior vision it takes to score expert rifle in the US Army (only 12 of the 160 men in my basic training unit scored expert) that is your ignorance (read lack of knowlege)

    ocgw

    peace
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  11. Adbear

    Adbear Well-Known Member

    You were the one who made the links as proof, I just pointed out the flaws in the systems they are building.
    Just go to the Avid website, it's on there for OS's for Media Composer.
    Go to the Adobe site for the supported OS's for CS4
    CS3 never had official support for 64 bit windows of any kind and therefore neither did the RTX2
    For liquid I found that these guys had posted this:
    http://www.dvc.uk.com/acatalog/Avid_liquid.html
    which is essentially the same as the internal email we got direct from Avid/pinnacle. We've still not seen or heard of even a beta of the new software which leads us to believe that they aren't giving it any real priority and may not even bother as they weren't happy about Liquid being in competition with media Composer.

    But then if you've been building systems for 10 years you shouldn't need my links as you should now which OS's the software and hardware is supported under

    And I'm still unimpressed as it really has no bearing on the Vista/XP issue and to be honest I've had enough people in the past who make claims and turn out to be false that I never believe them, I could just as easily say I'm an astronaut.

    I never said they didn't build systems under XP, I said that they didn't get 64bit support under XP
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  12. ocgw

    ocgw Well-Known Member

    You are the one questioning my vision by saying repeatedly that you can see things that I can't, well I offered info about myself that would lead a normal person to conclude I do indeed have superior vision (and being 1 of 12 in a group of 160 ain't exactly comparable to being an astronaut)

    And I am glad you brought up the issue of integrity, I wasn't going to go there, but now I am going to call BS when you say you ran BD Rebuilder @ highest settings to see if you can get a BD-9 w/o visible flaws "just to see", I think you already had your mind made up about it from your experiences w/ compression in the past and don't really know, I think you just believe it strongly

    ocgw

    peace
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  13. Adbear

    Adbear Well-Known Member

    Nope, I have used it, I even use the x264 using command line so I can do my own tweaks rather than using their front end and if I'm doing encodes from h264 into x264 down to BD9 I and others I work with can definitely see the difference. I've been using x264 since before the BD rebuilder came out either thru megui or by command line so it's nothing new to me, Admittedly it has got a lot better, but not to the extent that it's transparent to the original when taking h264 or VC-1 down to BD-9 even on multi passes.

    Oh and the reason I don't tend to believe about the vision is because it's exactly the same line that gets trotted out across various HD forums when someone is trying to claim that their vision is better therefore what anyone else is saying is wrong. If the quality is good enough for you then fine, but I deal with High bitrate and uncompressed HD every day and can definitely see the difference between the x264 compression to BD-9 and the original sources on the high bitrate Blu-ray's I've tried it with which is why I never shrink the main movie down
     
  14. ocgw

    ocgw Well-Known Member

    Well maybe you can see better than me, but I still see better than average, btw I drove the 988 series HEMTT Tractor in the ADA (Aircraft Defense Artillary) deploying Patriot Missile Batteries in the desert by convoy @ night w/ no lights driving by moonlight in the lead truck

    I would be willing to bet 9 out of 10 average ppl would not see a difference either

    still not switchin' to Vista until I have to lol

    ocgw

    peace
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  15. SamuriHL

    SamuriHL Moderator

    There will come a day when you will see the value in doing so. Trust me. :)
     
  16. ocgw

    ocgw Well-Known Member

    noooooooooooooooooooooooo.........................lol

    ocgw

    peace
     
  17. SamuriHL

    SamuriHL Moderator

    Oh yes, believe me, you will want to be on Vista or Windows 7 at some point in the future. Guaranteed. ;)
     
  18. PrincipalityFusion

    PrincipalityFusion Well-Known Member

    Well, if being a lemming means moving to an OS that offers me real advantages over the previous OS that i was using, then a lemming i am. I tripple boot with XP, Vista (Primary), and Win 7 and Vista does operate better than XP on my system. Windows 7 is about the same right now, but i really think that it will perform better than Vista as they make performance tweaks before release.

    Sure, lemmings follow each other of a cliff because they don't think about what they are following. The difference here is that you have a group of people who for the most part research what they want to buy and see real benefit in it.

    If you really want to jump on a lemming bandwagon, then that would be all the Vista haters who claim that "Vista sucks" or "Vista uses all my memory" or "I hate Vista, it sucks". Those, in my opinion, are the people who are blindly following the crowd without even really trying Vista.

    For one, TMT works much better on Vista than on XP and i've had a much better stable Vista Media Center experience than i've had with the Media Center in XP. I'm not as old as you claim to be, but i'm old enough to know that being unwilling to try new things because you've heard that they suck always keeps you from growing, learning, whatever.
     
  19. ocgw

    ocgw Well-Known Member

    Look, I have always been willing to try new things, maybe I am being narrow minded bro', so go ahead, school me on why I need this, I will listen, I will speak my mind but I know I am in the midst of a talented bunch, that's why I am here, sorry if I am abrasive some times, I always regret it

    Now I do dual boot 32bit/64bit, and a OS that is more HTPC friendly is a temptation. honestly we haven't spoken on the most appealing OS to me, MCE and you just brought it up8)cool

    I am most interested in a idiot proof interface that my wife will embrace

    tell me more

    btw I am not ashamed to say I will turn 45 this year

    "I don't smoke dope,
    I don't chew rope,
    I don't dance, prance or romance
    I've been to Maine, Spain and Spokane, Fort Wayne
    three World Fairs, around the world twice,
    seen goats fvck in the market place,
    but I have never seen chit go on any place
    like the chit I've seen go on around this place"

    ocgw

    peace
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2009