CloneBD and Forced Subtitles

[MerrimanLyon]

Just started trying CloneBD this morning. In general I like it, I've used DVDFab in the past, and the simplified UI for CloneBD appeals to me. But... how do I get it to burn *forced* subtitles? I don't want subtitles all the way through a video, just when someone is speaking in a foreign language. I'm not really fussed about what format I'm outputting in - MP4, MKV, AVI, etc. - is there a way I can achieve what I want?

Thanks

 

[picman]

Nothing for forced subtitles at this point, we're still hopeful.

 

[Pete]

The problem is: there is no real way of even identifying forced subtitles.
These are simply normal subtitles, that are programmatically activated by the code on the disc (HDMV or BD-J).

So all you can do is manually identify which of the subtitle tracks is the force sub - that's what the preview player in CloneBD is for.
Then select that for encoding.

 

[ddjmagic]

The problem is: there is no real way of even identifying forced subtitles.
These are simply normal subtitles, that are programmatically activated by the code on the disc (HDMV or BD-J).
So all you can do is manually identify which of the subtitle tracks is the force sub - that's what the preview player in CloneBD is for.
Then select that for encoding.

What about the subtitle tracks where the forced parts are mixed in with the main track (not a completely separate track)
From what I've seen the preview player only gives the option to see the full subtitle (even though there are also forced parts)

Other tools/players give the option to play/choose just the forced parts, so it is possible to identify them in this case.

From my experience this type of forced subtitle is used more than the completely separate unmarked forced subtitle (which as you said can not be automatically identified)

 

[Ch3vr0n]

I don't do movie only stuff, but if it's so 'hard' to detect them then how come software like handbrake, makeMKV can do it just fine?

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[Pete]

I don't do movie only stuff, but if it's so 'hard' to detect them then how come software like handbrake, makeMKV can do it just fine?

I don't know, I wish I did.
There is a flag in the streams that indicates forced subs, but we haven't seen any discs so far, where it was actually used.

 

[ddjmagic]

I don't know, I wish I did.
There is a flag in the streams that indicates forced subs, but we haven't seen any discs so far, where it was actually used.

I think you are thinking of a separate force track which are never marked as such.
These tracks are impossible to identify as you said (this type is uncommon from my experience)

Most common forced subtitles though are mixed in with the full subtitle track and can be identified - MPC-HC (LAV) and MakeMKV can pick these up fine and have done for years now.

 

[picman]

ripbot264 has always identified any type of forced subtitles. Maybe a contact to the author would shed some light on the process. Lets not give up on this the customer is always right! That's what I was told!

 

[Ch3vr0n]

@ddj: that's what I understand about makeMKV and said so long ago to clonebd to contact those devs, that's why I don't / didn't understand why this wasn't added to clonebd yet. Because I know if IS possible to identify them for the most part, our makeMKV wouldn't have been able to add them either

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[picman]

That's at least 2 free tools that can produce forced subtitles. We are paying good money for a product that should be able to do what these free products can do.

 

[ErichV]

Most of my blu-ray discs have forced subtitles in separate tracks.
Only one movie of my collection uses forced flags for the standard subtitle track, but this method is not unusual.
In rare cases, someone forgets to set the forced flags, so the forced subtitles have to be identified manually (there is a thread for German discs dedicated to this topic).
BDSup2Sub helps you to find the subtitles with forced flags easily.

 

[Pete]

Ok, I just checked back.
I was misinformed (rather misunderstood).

What they meant, was that it's not possible to tell whether there are forced subs present beforehand (by the UI), since that requires scanning enormous portions of the video.
But forced subs can and will be implemented.

 

[Ch3vr0n]

Now that is good news for those that rely on them! Guess it's only a matter of time then before we see an entry about it in the change log.

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[picman]

That is good news! Thank you.

 

[fhdaddy]

Still not fixed?

Is there still no fix for the forced subtitles?

 

[Tablecleaner]

Now that CloneBD is finally able to output MKV-files with selectable subs, I was wondering what' s the status on forced subs? I am really missing an option to
- create an MKV -file only with forced subs, i.e. a "selectable" subtitle with the "forced" flag or
- create an MKV -file that has only forced subs burnt into the video.
Have you guys finally figured how to identify forced subtitles on a BD?

 

[ddjmagic]

Forced subtitles are still not an option as of yet in an MKV, even if you manually figure it out yourself you can't currently mark the track as forced.
Hopefully this is added soon

That being said, it is impossible to automatically identify some forced subtitles as they aren't even flagged as forced.
Only way would to actually be able to play the full disc/menu to see what are being selected.

 

[CountryBumkin]

Any updates on this?

I have (English language) Captain Phillips (BD) which uses subtitles for the Somali pirates. I tried ripping to a "movie only" rip but I can't find the correct audio/subtitle track for the Somali pirates. I tried all the subtitle options (3 English subtitle selections, using permanent and selectable subtitles), but non seem to show the Somali language.

If I play the movie from the BD using PowerDVD14 and AnyDVD HD, the Somali subtitles automatically show (I don't need to select anything).

I believe it was mentioned that there is some type of "MKV header editing" I need to do to turn "On" forced subtitles - if this is true, please explain or link me to the steps needed.

I hope someone can help.

Thanks

 

[ddjmagic]

I have (English language) Captain Phillips (BD) which uses subtitles for the Somali pirates. I tried ripping to a "movie only" rip but I can't find the correct audio/subtitle track for the Somali pirates. I tried all the subtitle options (3 English subtitle selections, using permanent and selectable subtitles), but non seem to show the Somali language.

On my USA retail disc, the forced Somali only subtitles are contained within the 2nd English subtitle track (within the full English subtitles)
Unfortunately CloneBD does not have the ability to preview or extract those forced parts yet, however in this case 'smarter' playback software (like PowerDVD 14) still should be able to play just the Somali parts from the CloneBD MKV output.

Make sure you unselect every subtitle track except the 2nd English track in CloneBD and proceed with the MKV output.
Now playback the MKV in PowerDVD 14 but do not select the subtitle track, PowerDVD will automatically play the Somali only parts (first Somali parts start just after 4m30s if you want to test/check).

Note: Other 'Smarter' players like MPC-HC etc can also work like the above (though you may have to adjust settings first)

Edit:
I've just tried this myself and it seems PowerDVD 14 is not actually smart enough when it comes to MKV's and the above only works with 'movie only' Blu-ray structure.
You would either need to use another player (like MPC-HC) or use a different tool that can extract the forced Somali parts when creating the MKV.

 

[CountryBumkin]

Thanks for your reply.

I ended up ripping the movie to m2TS format using "ClownBD". I selected all of the subtitles since I didn't know which was the correct one.
Now I can play the movie with JRiver Media Center and I get the Somali dialog.