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Cinavia, Feb, 1, 2012 and forwards

testing97213 said:
Ok, that makes more sense, thank you guys for the that. However, but let me throw this wrench into it: Lets say I have an older BD player, plays my back ups fine but, I decided to buy a new receiver (Elite SC-57)... is Cinavia incorporated into new A/V receiver's?

I run everything through my AV receivers so ... just has me wondering.
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No. Cinavia is detected at the player level or not at all. It's up to the player to detect it and verify the media is a trusted source. Once the streams leave the player, there is no possible way for the trusted source to be authenticated as the AACS encryption has been removed by the player.
 
No doubt. This move to remove ISO compatibility puts them in the same league as Cyberlink back when they removed folder playback from PDVD7. Remember how well that decision went? Oppo can claim how undocumented the feature was and how much pressure they got to remove it all they want, but, the simple fact is that public opinion is now going to shift against them just as it did with Cyberlink. Removing features that are extremely popular with your customers is NOT going to win you any points. Now people who believed Oppo would NEVER implement Cinavia have to be religious about checking new firmware now. If the AACSLA can force them to remove functionality, they can force them to add new features, as well. Yippie. Oppo is no different than any other licensed company. Period.
 
zero7404 said:
if cinavia goes into oppo's future firmwares, they wont be selling at the same volume, at least not for the prices they want ....

the alternative would be to dedicate an old laptop/pc to the tv ....

.....
sent via android
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You are wrong and you demonstrate a misunderstanding of the consumer that Oppo caters to. The reason Oppo is a respected brand is because of the quality of their product and that involves both the physical solidness of their product as well as the performance of their product. Oppo players have always excelled and bench testing and passing tests has demonstrated this. With the Blu-Ray players the product still does amazing on the bench tests. The huge selling point with the Blu-Ray players has been the quality and the excellent upconversion of standard DVDs. The BDP-83, BDP-93, and BDP-95 are excellent at upconversion. No one argues that Blu-Ray playback should be the same along almost any Blu-Ray player with respect to video quality.

If someone just wants a cheap plastic lightweight Blu-Ray player then sure just buy any brand you want. Upconversion of DVD won't match what Oppo does and customer support will not even come close to Oppo. An HTPC will, also, not come close to the Oppo upconversion.

Say what you will but if you don't know what you are talking about... well, you just don't know.
 
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Or you could use your cheap HTPC and get a decent onkyo amp and let that upconvert as it uses the same qdeo chip and allows you multiple inputs and over here costs about the same as buying the BDP-93EU but without the ISO limitation and possible cinavia issue
 
DrinkLyeAndDie said:
You are wrong and you demonstrate a misunderstanding of the consumer that Oppo caters to. The reason Oppo is a respected brand is because of the quality of their product and that involves both the physical solidness of their product as well as the performance of their product. Oppo players have always excelled and bench testing and passing tests has demonstrated this. With the Blu-Ray players the product still does amazing on the bench tests. The huge selling point with the Blu-Ray players has been the quality and the excellent upconversion of standard DVDs. The BDP-83, BDP-93, and BDP-95 are excellent at upconversion. No one argues that Blu-Ray playback should be the same along almost any Blu-Ray player with respect to video quality.

If someone just wants a cheap plastic lightweight Blu-Ray player then sure just buy any brand you want. Upconversion of DVD won't match what Oppo does and customer support will not even come close to Oppo. An HTPC will, also, not come close to the Oppo upconversion.

Say what you will but if you don't know what you are talking about... well, you just don't know.
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I agree with this. However, you have to admit that the decision to remove this functionality, even if it was undocumented, is going to hurt their image. That doesn't diminish the quality of their products but it does tarnish their reputation as being strictly consumer oriented. Now oppo consumers have to be on guard for all new firmware updates because you never know what new surprises you may find. Again, still amazing build quality, but from an image standpoint, they have lost a bit of trust. Please note I'm not blaming them. I know why they did this and the politics they're forced into playing. They really had no choice in the matter. But in the end, removal of that functionality is not going to be a popular decision with oppo owners.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
 
Edit - I see this pertains to ISO file playback, not playback of a burned disc
...
That means the Oppo won't play a burned backup at all? What if I burn a Blu-Ray structured disc I made with my video camera? Doesn't that remove support for that?
 
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Pelvis Popcan said:
That means the Oppo won't play a burned backup at all? What if I burn a Blu-Ray structured disc I made with my video camera? Doesn't that remove support for that?
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Oppo removed the ability to natively play an ISO that was stored on a connected flash device or external HDD connected via USB or eSATA. That is the only thing they removed. Support for AVCHD remains, support for burned backups remains, support for all other currently supported media formats remains.

ISO support existed for all of like one beta firmware update and one official update and was around a few months. It was never officially announced, it was never documented officially, and it's been unofficially said from the beginning by Oppo beta testers that it could be removed at any time. So... it was nice while it lasted, yes, but that's life.
 
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DrinkLyeAndDie said:
Oppo removed the ability to natively play an ISO that was stored on a connected flash device or external HDD connected via USB or eSATA. That is the only thing they removed. Support for AVCHD remains, support for burned backups remains, support for all other currently supported media formats remains.

ISO support existed for all of like one beta firmware update and one official update and was around a few months. It was never officially announced, it was never documented officially, and it's been unofficially said from the beginning by Oppo beta testers that it could be removed at any time. So... it was nice while it lasted, yes, but that's life.
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Yup. Seemed like a nice feature to have, but, as we've learned over the years, when the AACSLA threatens to pull your license if you don't comply, well, that's a pretty big motivation. People can, and probably will, gripe about it, but, Oppo is not the one to blame for this. They were trying to offer people a useful feature and were slapped down by "the man". :D It's still a top notch player regardless.
 
Is there anything in AACS or CSS licensing that states that manufacturers must not allow ISO file playback?

I'm curious as to how exactly Oppo was strong-armed into taking away a feature that benefited their customers.
 
Not difficult to understand. "You will remove this, or your license will be expired forcefully." "ok" SAD PANDA.
 
Pelvis Popcan said:
Is there anything in AACS or CSS licensing that states that manufacturers must not allow ISO file playback?

I'm curious as to how exactly Oppo was strong-armed into taking away a feature that benefited their customers.
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The studios requested its removal. Studios happen to be part of the BDA. In fact, some Studios are on the Board of Directors of the BDA. A refusal to remove the support could have lead far and wide with Oppo being unable to produce any further licensed Blu-Ray players and the AACS LA could also get involved and revoking that license would also be major. I suspect the statement in the firmware release notes is putting the situation mildly.

Refer here for a more descriptive post I previously made including quotes from Oppo that shed more light on things rather than wording it as a simple request.
 
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While I agree it's slightly off topic I think it has relevance to Cinavia in that the studios clearly can force Oppo to bend to their will. From a Cinavia standpoint, I think that means that future Oppo products will definitely have Cinavia in them, and it's not inconceivable that current players *COULD* (warning: speculation) be forced to be upgraded.
 
SamuriHL said:
While I agree it's slightly off topic I think it has relevance to Cinavia in that the studios clearly can force Oppo to bend to their will. From a Cinavia standpoint, I think that means that future Oppo products will definitely have Cinavia in them, and it's not inconceivable that current players *COULD* (warning: speculation) be forced to be upgraded.
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I removed that part before I saw this. After back-tracking to the beginning of this tangent the source post concerning Oppo in this thread related to Cinavia and the removal of the feature. As such I removed the comment I made. :)
 
DrinkLyeAndDie said:
I removed that part before I saw this. After back-tracking to the beginning of this tangent the source post concerning Oppo in this thread related to Cinavia and the removal of the feature. As such I removed the comment I made. :)
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Meh. No problem. :)
 
If it is possible to develop an algorithm to either cancel out the Cinavia signal or distort it so that it is no longer reliably detected and if the hardware only detects Cinavia after all audio processing has been performed in the player, then it may be possible to add Secondary Audio to a Cinavia infected file and use the players ability to mix in Secondary Audio to defeat Cinavia detection. The primary soundtrack would not have to be modified.

I suspect the studios have thought of this and they probably detect Cinavia immediately after decoding the primary soundtrack and before mixing in other audio sources, but it's a thought.
 
SamuriHL said:
Not difficult to understand. "You will remove this, or your license will be expired forcefully." "ok" SAD PANDA.
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I still don't get how that's legally possible, if there is nothing in the licensing that Oppo agreed to that said they couldn't make ISO file playback possible.

If the studios say, "You will remove this, or your license will be expired forcefully," wouldn't they say, "Under what grounds?" If the answer is, "Because of this section of the license that you agreed to," that follows (and is actually the case with Cinavia), but if the answer is, "Because we don't like it," I can't see how they can have their license "forcibly" removed if they follow and agree to all of its provisions. To me, that would be like them saying, "We don't like the color of your player. Change it, or your license will be expired forcefully."
 
Well I assume they sign a license agreement for a set period of time like a year. All they have to do is say if they don't remove it then they won't get a new license at the end of that period which would mean no new machines could be sold, no new updates etc
 
Pelvis Popcan said:
I still don't get how that's legally possible, if there is nothing in the licensing that Oppo agreed to that said they couldn't make ISO file playback possible.

If the studios say, "You will remove this, or your license will be expired forcefully," wouldn't they say, "Under what grounds?" If the answer is, "Because of this section of the license that you agreed to," that follows (and is actually the case with Cinavia), but if the answer is, "Because we don't like it," I can't see how they can have their license "forcibly" removed if they follow and agree to all of its provisions. To me, that would be like them saying, "We don't like the color of your player. Change it, or your license will be expired forcefully."
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The aacsla seems to have quite a bit of control. I'm guessing the license agreements they put in place are incredibly restrictive and heavily stacked in their favor. You need to remember that all they have to do is revoke a player key and that player is done. I sort of liken it to the mob. :)

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
 
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