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Blocked BD copy playback (Cinavia)

SamuriHL said:
How, exactly step by step, was the disc backed up and burned for the PS3's consumption?
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14072010780.jpg

This is made about 20mins in Losers.
It's a bdrip (xvid+ac3 so ps3 will like it).
Message 3 only appears after 20 mins of playback. Then it becomes funny, wherever you seek, you've got the ban: plays a bit with sound then mute. Pause it or ffw, same.
 
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Let me guess after ffwd or rewind, it give you grace period of 12 sec or so before going mute.
Anyways thanks for screenshot.
 
Hawk said:
Let me guess after ffwd or rewind, it give you grace period of 12 sec or so before going mute.
Anyways thanks for screenshot.
Click to expand...

Not really. I think it is direct proportional to the time you didn't play the movie (while it was paused, ffwed, etc).

And here's a shot from the bd itself. Of course, from a bd-r copy of it:
14072010789.jpg
 
florinsasu said:
And here's a shot from the bd itself. Of course, from a bd-r copy of it:
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Have you tried making a 1:1 ISO using a dual layer blank (I assume this is a dual layer disc)? I would assume it would still generate the message 3, but you know, testing...
 
Pelvis Popcan said:
Have you tried making a 1:1 ISO using a dual layer blank (I assume this is a dual layer disc)? I would assume it would still generate the message 3, but you know, testing...
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that's a 1:1 copy. aacs disabled though (that's what triggers the message3)
 
I suppose that it's ironic that where all the digital encryption failed, it will be analog audio that will prove to be the most successful protection.

I guess this could eventually create a market where someone could make a set top player that cannot play back AACS discs, so it won't need to incorporate Cinavia and will be completely legal. But you will only be able to play back unencrypted discs on it (such as backups).
 
Good info. Thanks! If you have the ability, check any of the software players you own. I'm guessing it'll work in those....for now.
 
Pelvis Popcan said:
I suppose that it's ironic that where all the digital encryption failed, it will be analog audio that will prove to be the most successful protection.

I guess this could eventually create a market where someone could make a set top player that cannot play back AACS discs, so it won't need to incorporate Cinavia and will be completely legal. But you will only be able to play back unencrypted discs on it (such as backups).
Click to expand...

SamuriHL said:
Good info. Thanks! If you have the ability, check any of the software players you own. I'm guessing it'll work in those....for now.
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Won't be much help since it is analog sunset in 31-Dec-2013.
 
Hawk said:
Won't be much help since it is analog sunset in 31-Dec-2013.
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I wasn't referring to that info! :) The analog crap is history long before that. I don't believe that's the proper way to go about this anyway. For now, use a player that ignores it. Hopefully PDVD and TMT ignore it for now. :D And then maybe SlySoft will get a chance to look at one of these discs and figure out some kind of magic. If not, well, all you hardware player guys are pretty much screwed. :bang: :D
 
Ah, gotta you. Make perfect sense. Know let see how long Sly guru takes to figure it out.

BTW If you don't update ps3 you will be able to play new disc as well given that AACS and BD+ can be removed from the disc and PS3 firmware stays below 3.40

In other words decrypt disc with anydvd and burn it on BD Media and watch on PS3 with firmware version lower than 3.40. (Problem Solved)
 
I've already updated my PS3. I don't care though as my solution is to convert it to MKV and use WMP or 7MC to watch it, bitstreaming with ffdshow. This protection isn't going to bother me in the least. :)
 
No.....not yet, anyway. There's rumors out there that someone's developing a mod chip to do just that but I've not seen much on it.
 
Just had some terrible thoughts.

There of course is more than one "audio watermark." So I believe it is highly likely that there are several types of Blu-Ray watermarks that will work along with HDCP, just as they have currently shown to be working along with AACS.

This would mean that a future model television set could receive an HDMI signal that contains a Cinavia audio watermark that says, "Hello, I am Cinavia watermark type 38542, which means that if I am not accompanied by the correct HDCP signal, then please blank the screen and display a 'you got owned' message."

This basically means that in the future, when you buy a new HDTV, you may very well end up unable to use it to watch a backup of one of these Cinavia watermarked discs, even if you are using a PC home theater computer that uses a freeware player that ignores Cinavia.

I would be very willing to bet that we will see this Cinavia crap implemented in the coming months and years in televisions, receivers, scalers, and pretty much any other device that has audio inputs, even analog ones.

Very very very upsetting news for people who enjoy excercising their fair use rights on all forms of physical media, as this can be put on Blu-Rays, DVDs, even CDs.
 
Pelvis Popcan said:
Just had some terrible thoughts.

There of course is more than one "audio watermark." So I believe it is highly likely that there are several types of Blu-Ray watermarks that will work along with HDCP, just as they have currently shown to be working along with AACS.

This would mean that a future model television set could receive an HDMI signal that contains a Cinavia audio watermark that says, "Hello, I am Cinavia watermark type 38542, which means that if I am not accompanied by the correct HDCP signal, then please blank the screen and display a 'you got owned' message."

This basically means that in the future, when you buy a new HDTV, you may very well end up unable to use it to watch a backup of one of these Cinavia watermarked discs, even if you are using a PC home theater computer that uses a freeware player that ignores Cinavia.

I would be very willing to bet that we will see this Cinavia crap implemented in the coming months and years in televisions, receivers, scalers, and pretty much any other device that has audio inputs, even analog ones.

Very very very upsetting news for people who enjoy excercising their fair use rights on all forms of physical media, as this can be put on Blu-Rays, DVDs, even CDs.
Click to expand...

Well, I've even heard rumors about a special progam developed by NASA using extraterrestrial knowledge they gathered back in area 52 (the one found after 51 - what the 9/11 terrorists were really after).
They're planning to implant chips into our brains though nanites in our food. Whenever you see a movie with a watermark in it, you'll go deaf and blind.
And if it happens more than tree times, your head will explode.
WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!

You really have to calm down, everything is going to be alright :)
Repeat that 100 times. "I must calm down, I must calm down, ...".

(But you might have given them a nice idea, now, come to think of it - to make sure, you should send in your suggestion, chances are, you'll win a prize :) )
 
Peer said:
Well, I've even heard rumors about a special progam developed by NASA using extraterrestrial knowledge they gathered back in area 52 (the one found after 51 - what the 9/11 terrorists were really after).
They're planning to implant chips into our brains though nanites in our food. Whenever you see a movie with a watermark in it, you'll go deaf and blind.
And if it happens more than tree times, your head will explode.
WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!
Click to expand...

thats not NASA thats Obama. LMAO
 
Musings on how it's implimented

Just some speculation.

The watermark is embedded in the actual aduio itself.
The method used needs to be inaudible ( like tweeking a LS-bit every so often ). But that's not good enough, because it needs to be robust enough to be detectable in a microphone camcorder recording.

So they are not just bit-twiddling. That wouldn't survive the background noise on a camcorder recording, or even a re-encode.

I suspect they are actually creating a very low-rate data stream by introducing detectable acoustic signatures, below the noise-floor ( for them, the noise floor is the program audio. ) I think it likely that they are using correlation techniques. I suspect they are working in the frequency domain, adding a known spectrum of energy peaks at certain frequencies. The player will perform fourrier analysis on the audio stream, to give a spectrum. This will be correlated against the known spectrum, and where the correlellogram goes above some threshold, that will be a '1'. Since the signal level will be very low, the correlation window lengths will likely be large, and also averaged over a longish time ( perhaps tens of seconds ).
This gives a low data rate, which accounts for the times it takes to kick in.

To kill it, we'd need to know the correlation they are looking for. That's reverse-engineering. Once we can read their data stream by observing the correlation peaks come and go, we'd then need to apply carefull filtering to knock back the energy peaks which account for the correlation. You minimise the filtering to reduce the correlation peak to only below the detection threshold.

Then the trivial matter of re-encoding the audio :)



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SC
 
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