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Aacs targets Anydvd Hd

And I am sure SlySoft will be able to put up a good fight.

Just like many times before.
 
Movies shown in cinemas will be given a new watermark invisible to the human eye, but easily picked up by AACS-enabled players. Once the watermark is detected, the player will stop playback completely, according to the Heise Online. Of course, this would actually require a user top be watching a cam movie in an AACS-enabled player, like a HD DVD player or Blu-ray Disc player, so the effect it would have is unknown.

Let me get this straight- someone is going to cam a movie, burn it to an hddisk, and an aacs player will recognize an invisible watermark in the video that the camera picks up and tranfers to the disk- that prevents this 10$ disk I bought outside of Central Park in NY from playing in my state of the art blu-ray player?

Unless corner pirates at the carts on 5th avenue want to start charging 50$ for a special blu-ray edition of the latest pirate movie, the economics will kill this not to mention the idea tha a camcorder won't pick up on something liek this.

WTF? Why don't AACS start another business turbo charging Yugos!

Do these idiots realize that most people coping disks are dong it for personal use because AACS will not give them the functionality they want? What a bunch of morons.
 
regarding watermarking:
although nothing is done with the projected movie,i was reading somewhere that where the cinema screen is,either one or more 'bright infra-red' lights is shone into all of the audience areas which interferes with the camcorder (all the camcorder can 'see' is this bright light shining into it.the human eye cant see this infra-red shining light,but the camcorder is sensitive to it).
it was summat like that anyway.

This does sound like a way to stop camming, maybe it's being done.
But watermarking is somewhat different and a lot meaner than that. There have been so many speculations around about what watermarking actually is...

1. Audio: for those of you who don't know what a DCT (Discrete Cosine Tramsform - a fourier related transform) is: imagine a continuous, clean 440Hz (a) sine wave, something that could come out of an ideal, perfect wooden flute.
The DCT will transform this signal from its time domain to its frequency domain. That does sound a little like science fiction talk about "scotty, invert the deflector's phase and reroute energy through the Heisenberg compensators", but it's pretty simple: the result is a long series of zeros and a single peak value at - well? - 440Hz, right.
And you can imagine, how you can compress the hell out of this single information.
Now you know, why this type of transform is so commonly used in compression scemes like MP3 and MPEG (ok, it gets a little more complicated with "real music and speech").
Because there is always a backward transform that will restore my 440Hz sine wave from the information "440Hz and nothing else", it runs both ways.

Now about watermarking: if you're clever enough, you can modify the information in the frequency domain in a way that it will show a certain pattern that can be detected later on - while it will still go unnoticed when listening to the sound.
In case of the sine wave above it will probably not be possible, but this really is not the typical soundtrack of a movie, right?
If the pattern is complex enough, it will be very improbable that it will "accidentally" show up in non-watermarked material, especially not over a longer period of time (like a whole second).

One thing to note: "inaudible" in this context is usually being taken too literally. A very basic requirement is, that the watermark must be at least near the audible range, because that's what our speaker systems are made to reproduce. Otherwise the watermark would be simple to cut off too.
It will usually even be right in the middle of our audible frequency range. So you really can hear it, you just can't notice it (or at least hardly can).

2. Video: not much to say here. You can treat a black and white image as a two-dimensional signal and pass it through a 2D variant of the DCT. The same applies here, just that your watermarking pattern can be 2-dimensional - even sort of a "picture" in the frequency domain (which will transform into some slight noise in the visible time domain).

The "cure" to both watermarking schemes would be simple: wipe out the sound and the video and the watermark is gone. But so is the movie.
So, what you have to do is cut out the watermark with a scalpel, resulting in as little damage in audio/video as possible. This requires either knowledge of the pattern or the knowledge of it's position in the stream or ideally both.

So, whoever feels up to the task - whenever they start coming up with watermarking and you're first to send us working code, that kills the watermark with little "collateral damage", there's probably a nice pay check waiting ;)
Hey, maybe even I'm lucky and it's me. Then I'll get the paycheck.... that I'd get anyway, .... well, .... that's life....

I would be mad if I bought AnyDVD-HD and could not decrypt newer discs with these new security measures but I could understand. Slysoft has not won the battle yet with AACS.

Is this about winning a battle? We're aiming to supply a tool that will ideally always allow you to do with your bought content whatever you like.
And as long as it is not pumping it up to torrents, we even feel good about it.
But I have no illusion, that we're ever going to "win the battle" in a sense that AACS will draw back and quietly say "we retire, thanks for the fun". They want the money badly.
 
... special blu-ray edition of the latest pirate movie ...

If players are going to recognize watermarks in audio streams, they will probably do so regardless of what media they are playing, e.g. this applies to sound coming not only from blu-ray discs, but from DVDs, CDs, and even from media files on hard drive. And if they recognize a watermark, they will act accordingly, e.g. stop playing the media whatever it is.

'Watermarks' is actually quite powerful concept: you can't remove them without damaging the movie. But to defeat them, you could simply use "unlicensed" players/decoders which ignore them. But when they are widely used, you can certainly say good bye playing a BD-RE or even DVD-RW copy of commercial movie on PS3.
 
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Also I can imagine possible complications with Watermarks:

Imagine you record a wedding ceremony with your camcorder. And music playing on a background by a CD player has those watermarks. So I guess you will not be able to see or even process your footage, or maybe your Sony camcorder will just shut, refusing to continue recording :D
 
Which reminds me of an old quote from Star Wars

Princess Leia: "The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers. "
 
I expect that if this gets worse and worse people will just watch the movie at the theater and then used there DVD Recorder and record it from HBO or something is what I expect.
 
This does sound like a way to stop camming, maybe it's being done.
it is to stop (supposed to stop) people camming in the cinema's-i'm not 100% sure,but i think it is happening canadian cinema's if my memory serve's me correctly.
 
I am not a physicist, but the reality of this seems a bit far fetched. I could be wrong too I suppose.
 
Pointless investment of lots of money that could be spent in better ways ...

Basically - and it has been proven time and time again - no matter what protection they put in there, it can - and will - be cracked. The problem with protection media is that at some time you need to be able to play it back. Meaning that, if you look at software playback: at some point, the video image data will end up somewhere in the videomemory and the audio data will be routed through a soundcard driver ... They can only try and make it harder so it would take a long time or be very difficult to crack on short notice. But then again, some smart kid will come along and find a workaround... Before you know it: gone is the investment in all the useless protectionschemes, that usually cause more trouble (support, play back issues etc) than they are really worth... Maybe the industry should have somebody help them make a proper cost/benefits analysis... When will they understand nobody (except them, because they THINK they are going to make extra money if they do it) wants things like AACS, HDCP or region coding for that matter. Java based menu's? Why? Ok, it's an additional feature that can be useful to some degree, but only a minor one IMHO. People buy the disc for a movie and maybe some additional making of footage and interviews, not for an animated menu - if there is one thing to it: many of them are annoying - as they often have long animations that take way to long and cannot be skipped through... Is it worth the added cost to the player and the added mastering cost? People want: better value for their money and logical pricingschemes. CD's costing more than their DVD equivalents in many cases for example: Illogical! (I hear Sarek of Vulcan in the back of my head!) Ofcourse they will be copied: blank media is MUCH cheaper than the original, which is way too expensive (when talking about album cds). For high definition media it'll be very simple: if they keep the blank media prices at the level they are now or lower the original prices so they keep them max 1-2 eur/usd above the price of the blank media, there will be far less people making illegal copies and far more originals will be sold... (provided the prices do not exceed 20 EUR/25USD by much for a single high def movie) People who really want to make backups of their discs and and data will still pay for their media, but what is the use of making a backup of an HD movie if the originals are nearly as cheap as the blank media (or in the current case: usually cheaper)???

I'll end up with a quote from everybody's favourite engineer:
" the more they overtake the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain" - Montgommery Scott, Startrek III - The Search For Spock.
 
I am not a physicist, but the reality of this seems a bit far fetched. I could be wrong too I suppose.

it's not far fetched at all.
get a remote control for a tv or video etc....press one of the buttons on it and point it at your camcorder when it is in record/record stand by mode and you will see the infra red led of the remote control flashing.bear in mind the power of this IR LED-remote controls are usually only power by 3 volts.
a lot of security cameras on the other hand are often accompanied by larger,mains powered IR Lamps so that they can continue working when it turns night.
the ones used in the cinemas to stop camming (!) of films are probably similar to these but i would imagine even more powerful and even have a greater angle of coverage too.this will cause glare on the lens of the camcorder.

anyway,lets get back to AACS..........:agree:
 
You know your program has truely made it when you have a huge company coming after you.

EDIT: I think this was already posted.
 
AACS Business.

I believe that the main AACS business objective is not preventing users from copying their DVD, but making it "ILLEGAL" so that presecution for copyright infringment can take place.
I mean, if a DVD had no kind of protection, anybody would be implicitly allowed to make as many copies as they want.
A protection schema, as weak as it is, still require someone to "break" it, doing an "illegal" action that can be easily presecuted by the law.
On a final note, please consider that AACS gets paid for using their protection schema on a PER TITLE basis, plus royalties on EACH and EVERY printed copy.
Fighting against Slysoft is just a due action to preserve their reputation. From a business point of view, they couldn't care less. Some HD/BD feature do require AACS to be in place. So HD/BD producers will be FORCED to use AACS, regardless it is secure or not.

My 0.02$.
 
people should be allowed to protect their investments (cd's/dvd's etc..) by making back-ups to computer files or to disc.if discs become unplayable for whatever reason and you take it back to the shop/store where you bought it wanting an exchange,they wouldn't give you one unless the disc was faulty-you would have to purchase a new disc.
you are legally entitled to copy a cd to mp3 so that you can listen to your music wherever you want whilst the cd stays safe at home.
the same is (or should be) true for your dvd's too.it's to do with 'fair usage'.
video ipods,archos's....you're gonna want to put your purchased movie dvd's (and audio cd's too) onto these devices.that is what they were made for.no-one can object to you doing that surely?
they're (ipods,archos etc...) not manufactured so that you can carry round your favourite home videos,or recordings of yourself playing a musical instrument.they are for bought audio cd's and movie dvd's you own.

people will of course always find an illegal use for the software that enables you to do this (ie piracy).
 
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ISo HD/BD producers will be FORCED to use AACS, regardless it is secure or not.
Pressed Blu-ray discs require AACS, yes. HD DVD *does not* require AACS (and there are some titles available on HD DVD without AACS). So anyone publishing on HD DVD can ditch AACS and save the licensing costs. (And allow customers to play the content from media servers).
 
I do obviously agree with you on this!

I was only pointing out what, imho, is the main objective of the AACS system.
At the end of the day it is yet another way to squize some more money out of consumers' pocket.

Murder is forbidden (well, should be!) all over the world. Nonetheless they sell weapons that are made to kill people!
There is nothing like an AACS system on the guns to prevent crime. It depends on how you use them.
If you commit crime, you get jailed. End of the story.
This is the way it should be with digital copyrighted contents: you hold or trade copyrighted material illegally ? You pay for this.

AACS implementation costs have an impact on the final product price. So the consumers have to pay for something they haven't done yet (if ever) !

So please, don't tell me it is a copy protection system... it's just pickpocketing !
 
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slvrbllt said:
Some HD/BD feature do require AACS to be in place. So HD/BD producers will be FORCED to use AACS, regardless it is secure or not.

Pressed Blu-ray discs require AACS, yes. HD DVD *does not* require AACS (and there are some titles available on HD DVD without AACS). So anyone publishing on HD DVD can ditch AACS and save the licensing costs. (And allow customers to play the content from media servers).

That's not completely true.
Networking and Persistent Storage writing, for example, DO require the content to be encapsulated with AACS.
So you are FORCED to use AACS, unless you want to get rid of these functionalities ! :) And if you did, what would then be the benefit of switching to HD-DVD ?
I mean, the price we have to pay for a HD-DVD/BD is not worth just the Hi-Def movie!

Have a look at the "Motorhead" HD-DVD... you will see what you can get with Internet and PS access.
I didn't get the HD-DVD just because I wanted to see Lemmy's face in HD ! :)
 
That's not completely true.
Networking and Persistent Storage writing, for example, DO require the content to be encapsulated with AACS.
So you are FORCED to use AACS, unless you want to get rid of these functionalities ! :)

Can you provide a source for that information? I'm not doubting you, I just need this verified. The reason is, if you're correct, that could be the reason why Heroes disc 2 fails to play in PowerDVD Ultra...maybe. I'm not sure if people can play it without AnyDVD(and hence with AACS still in tact) or whether it's just simply a PowerDVD bug, but, if you're correct about this, that could possibly explain it.
 
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