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Ultraviolet DRM protections

You are. Cause they would be sued if they did that. The discs are required to be playable on any licensed player. So, stop worrying about this stand alone nonsense. It's simply not true.
 
SamuriHL said:
You are. Cause they would be sued if they did that. The discs are required to be playable on any licensed player. So, stop worrying about this stand alone nonsense. It's simply not true.
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Couldn't they argue that only the content of the discs is required to be playable, and the Ultraviolet digital copy will fulfill that requirement?

Again I hope you are right; but I know studios are sick and tired of losing sales to decryption and copying of the original discs being possible and they may be willing to take on some risk to be able to stop it.
 
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Pelvis Popcan said:
Couldn't they argue that only the content of the discs is required to be playable, and the Ultraviolet digital copy will fulfill that requirement?

Again I hope you are right; but I know studios are sick and tired of losing sales to decryption and copying of the original discs being possible and they may be willing to take on some risk to be able to stop it.
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I think you are very very confused here. The digital copies are SEPARATE from the actual BD. I think that's where you're having issues with this concept. It's not any different than the current itunes/WMP digital copies except it's a new DRM that's being used. It's not going to affect the existing BD playback in any way. Now, these digital copies...they most likely WILL require some special playback. But the digital copies have NEVER been targeted at stand alone players. They're targeted at portable players like the iPhone/iPod/iPad. What *I'm* hoping for with this is that the portable market is expanded so that Apple's lock on digital copies (let's be serious, who the hell uses the digital copy to unlock the WMP version) is broken. I want my stuff on Android, baby! :D So I see this as having no impact on the actual blu-ray, but, impacting heavily the digital copies...hopefully in a positive way. You register your portable device (up to 12) and can stream on 3 at a time. That's pretty liberal.
 
This is even more different than I thought. This is a pretty whacked way of doing this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UltraViolet_(system)

I'm curious how they know that you've purchased content. Once they've verified that you've purchased it, they then add it to your digital locker so that any device that you register can play it. Alrighty then. That still doesn't say anything about affecting the original BD in any way. But perhaps they're using the BD to unlock the content in your digital locker. Nonetheless, the BD will play on any BD player that they currently play on, including software players.
 
I never even touch the digital copy and bd live is off on my oppo.
 
I used to use the digital copy when I had methods available to me to strip the DRM from them. Lately that's not been possible so I redeem them and then ignore them. I've been making my own from the BD using other software. I'm intrigued by this "buy once play anywhere" concept. It LOOKS like they have to provide you with some kind of encrypted file that your authenticated device can unlock and play. So it would seem that instead of the iTunes/WMP digital copy disc they send with the BD's, maybe they'll be sending a CIFF file on a disc along with the BD instead. The CIFF then can be copied to any device you want to play it on. The device authenticates with your digital locker, and you're good to go. Personally, while I'm against DRM, this doesn't seem so bad to me as far as DRM schemes go. Certainly better than being locked into iTunes.
 
SamuriHL said:
But the digital copies have NEVER been targeted at stand alone players. They're targeted at portable players like the iPhone/iPod/iPad.
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How am I confused? Again, re-read my post. I don't think you are understanding it. I thought I was very clear and edited it more times than I can remember now to try to elimate as much confusion as possible, but my point doesn't seem to be getting across.

I never said or suggested that stand alone players were targeted. At all.

I said the exact opposite. That computer software players could be targeted. In other words, computer software players (PowerDVD, TMT, etc.) will be considered "portable players" and will be updated to play the Ultraviolet digital copy. Since they can play the Ultraviolet digital copy, there's no reason for them to be able to play the regular standard Blu-Ray disc. They could put a version of AACS and/or BD+ on the regular standard Blu-Ray disc that works fine on stand alone players, but computer software players will display a message saying something like, "please use the Ultraviolet digital copy." They won't play the regular standard Blu-Ray disc, so it won't be decrypted for playback. And therefore, AnyDVD won't be able to decrypt it. Unless SlySoft has somehow circumvented the secure components of stand alone players, which they may have done since these components are used on the PS3, and the PS3's security has been circumvented.
 
Pelvis Popcan said:
I said the exact opposite. That computer software players could be targeted. In other words, computer software players (PowerDVD, TMT, etc.) will be considered "portable players" and will be updated to play the Ultraviolet digital copy.
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That CAN NOT happen. They are *LICENSED* players just like any stand alone player. They can't all of a sudden change it so they're no longer able to play a standard blu-ray. If they try this, they WILL be sued into oblivion and I will be first in line to do so as a breach of contract for the software I bought and paid for. They may get ADDITIONAL functionality to play the ultraviolet copies, but, it will not and can not affect the ability to play a standard blu-ray without violating the license agreement they made with those companies.

Since they can play the Ultraviolet digital copy, there's no reason for them to be able to play the regular standard Blu-Ray disc. They could put a version of AACS and/or BD+ on the regular standard Blu-Ray disc that works fine on stand alone players, but computer software players will display a message saying something like, "please use the Ultraviolet digital copy." They won't play the regular standard Blu-Ray disc, so it won't be decrypted for playback. And therefore, AnyDVD won't be able to decrypt it. Unless SlySoft has somehow circumvented the secure components of stand alone players, which they may have done since these components are used on the PS3, and the PS3's security has been circumvented.
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See above. WILL NOT happen. You're making an assumption that because they are software players they aren't licensed the same as any stand alone player. That's not true at all. They are required to update their AACS player keys every 3 months which is their only "special" status, but, if they revoke the player's ability to play blu-ray titles, they will be violating their license agreement with the companies that paid for those licenses and the customers who bought the software under the impression that they are *LICENSED* blu-ray players. What you are suggesting would unleash absolute HELL for them legally if they tried it. They are stupid, but, not THAT stupid.
 
P.S. The PS3 is nothing more than a software player, as well. It's in a "secure" (cough cough) environment, but, it is no different than TMT or PDVD in respect to being a software implementation.
 
Pelvis Popcan said:
PLEASE be right! :) ;)
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Indeed. :) Like I said, they remove our ability for our purchased software to play legitimate BD discs, there WILL be hell to pay for it. What I think you really ought to be worrying about isn't whether software players will lose the ability to play discs....it's the elimination of BD as a format. UV supports DTS-HD MA, TrueHD, AVC...It looks as though they want set tops, game consoles, mobile devices, and even BD players to support this DRM. What happens if they decide in a few years to drop BD and use this? Ship a big disc with a CFF on it, the player is authenticated to your digital locker, and the content is able to play. You may be looking at the beginning of the end of the blu-ray format. THAT is what's unfortunately possible...
 
SamuriHL said:
Indeed. :) Like I said, they remove our ability for our purchased software to play legitimate BD discs, there WILL be hell to pay for it. What I think you really ought to be worrying about isn't whether software players will lose the ability to play discs....it's the elimination of BD as a format. UV supports DTS-HD MA, TrueHD, AVC...It looks as though they want set tops, game consoles, mobile devices, and even BD players to support this DRM. What happens if they decide in a few years to drop BD and use this? Ship a big disc with a CFF on it, the player is authenticated to your digital locker, and the content is able to play. You may be looking at the beginning of the end of the blu-ray format. THAT is what's unfortunately possible...
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I guess that's a different way of looking at the same point. So if consumers embrace UV, that could possibly happen (eventually).

I am hoping SlySoft will still be able to decrypt standard Blu-Ray discs if they can't be played on computers! James and Peer have implied that they will; of course I would not expect them to elaborate more on this publicly (for obvious reasons).
 
Like I said, while the blu-ray format exists, they can't stop playback on the PC. The software player mfg's have paid for AACS licenses so it's required that they work. However, I do think the blu-ray format itself has a "limited lifecycle". But that's for ALL players, not just software players. The reason? If you have a fast enough broadband pipe, it'd be convenient to stream UV titles. Building a library like we do now with BD rips? Yup, possible with UV. It'll be touted as more consumer friendly. In some ways, it is. But, it is also still DRM laiden and they could change the rules as we go forward. Consumer beware.
 
SamuriHL said:
If you have a fast enough broadband pipe, it'd be convenient to stream UV titles.
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Somehow I can't see streaming a full 40+ gigs of high bitrate video and lossless audio. Not a problem or concern with a disc, but it is with streaming. But it seems most people don't have a problem compromising quality via higher compression and lower bitrates. The sheer number of people who stream rather than rent titles on Netflix is proof of that. So audiophiles and videophiles will lose out I think with UV, but they will be in the minority.
 
I dont see blu totally going anywhere until they figure out streaming for HD Audio. I cant even get higher than 6mbps dsl in my area, and thats not even good enough to stream vudu HDX awith DD+.

To me, the future is loading movies on thumb drives, and allowing me to rent/buy them from a kiosk just by plugging it in. Even the mailing services could allow you to download the entire movie over time, load it to the thumbdrive, and then plug it in a blu player or something else. Streaming is going to be held back awhile, unless we just allow PQ and AQ to crap the bed.
 
That's the point. As broadband becomes better, larger files will be possible. And the UV file format (CFF) allows for DTS-HD MA and TrueHD so you can get BD quality. And there's no reason that they can't distribute the content physically for now as you said. But that doesn't mean blu-ray itself is a format that sticks around. Once more players support UV and they get a critical mass to adoption...
 
SamuriHL said:
That's the point. As broadband becomes better, larger files will be possible. And the UV file format (CFF) allows for DTS-HD MA and TrueHD so you can get BD quality. And there's no reason that they can't distribute the content physically for now as you said. But that doesn't mean blu-ray itself is a format that sticks around. Once more players support UV and they get a critical mass to adoption...
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But there's also this question that IMO is more critical: Will there be a critical mass of broadband pipes that can support BD-quality streaming? With the current AT&T and Comcast 250GB caps (i.e., 5 full dual-layer BDs per month) on their top-tier broadband services, the answer for now is "no" at least in the U.S., and I understand Canadian caps are even worse.

Until folks can stream more than a handful of BD-quality movies every month, BD won't be going away no matter how many UV devices are out there. (OTOH, DVD may be a different story.)
 
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I think you missed my point. Just because you can't stream it, doesn't mean you can't ship it on discs. Just like you do with BD's today. What I'm saying is they may decide this is the right mechanism for movie distribution, kill off the current blu-ray format, and instead sell discs that use the UV format for HD video/audio. Then in 5-10 years when broadband DOES become better for large file distribution, the same files can be streamed instead of purchased on physical discs. See what I'm saying? NONE of this is going to happen tomorrow. I'm saying that's where I see the danger for existing blu-ray going forward. Streaming is NOT required in order to kill off the blu-ray format. All that takes is simply enough players to support UV and the ability to distribute the files either through physical media and/or streaming. Those that want BD *quality* would still be able to get it. Others that don't care about the highest quality can stream as they do now with netflix etc. Make sense now?
 
I hope they will make it available in Canada as I have Horrible Bosses and Green Lantern already, both have UV. From what I read Flixster only available in the USA at moment, guess I will find out tomorrow when I try to get my Horrible Bosses Digital Copy. I only want the iTunes copy and not sure if it even has that
 
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