RE: "8x Blu-ray burners"

[andy o]

So from the link in the sticky, I'm trying to gather which I can get. I don't think I need a burner just yet, so there's an LG equivalent for its burner. I was also eyeing the Panasonic burner which seems to have a considerable read advantage for DL BD-ROMs, but there's no read-only counterpart. BTW, do these matshita desktop drives also suffer from the region lock the laptop drives do?

The Pioneer doesn't seem to have a read-only counterpart either (the previous-generation one did), but it does seem cheap enough if you don't buy the version with Cyberlink software. Which brings me to this post:

Don't do it

I have a LG 6x BD/HD-DVD reader which is "riplocked" to 4.8x BD-ROM/BDMV, the LG 8x burner is "riplocked" also

Get the Pioneer 8x Burner 203, it is not "riplocked", I just got mine delivered yesterday, the LG is going in my "spare" rig

I'm not sure that you can call that "riplocked". The LG specs for the 6x drives do state 4.8x for dual layer discs. So I'm wondering if the 8x LG drive is actually riplocked. The specs for that one do say 8x.

Thanks for any comments.

 

[ocgw]

So from the link in the sticky, I'm trying to gather which I can get. I don't think I need a burner just yet, so there's an LG equivalent for its burner. I was also eyeing the Panasonic burner which seems to have a considerable read advantage for DL BD-ROMs, but there's no read-only counterpart. BTW, do these matshita desktop drives also suffer from the region lock the laptop drives do?

The Pioneer doesn't seem to have a read-only counterpart either (the previous-generation one did), but it does seem cheap enough if you don't buy the version with Cyberlink software. Which brings me to this post:

I'm not sure that you can call that "riplocked". The LG specs for the 6x drives do state 4.8x for dual layer discs. So I'm wondering if the 8x LG drive is actually riplocked. The specs for that one do say 8x.

Thanks for any comments.

Well Andy my friend I will lay it out for you

My LG BD-ROM/HD-DVD reader's specs are 6x read of BD-R (SL), but only 4.8x BD-ROM (SL) (BDMV), that is a classic "riplock"

The new 8x LG Burner reads BD-R @ 8x, but only 4.8x on BD-ROM (BDMV) making it even worse

The Pioneer BDR-203 has no such limitation, it reads both BD-R, and BD-ROM (BDMV) @ the same high 8x speed

ps. The Pioneer records to a couple of kinds of discs that the LG cannot

note: BD-ROM's are high quality "pressings" w/ real physical pits and should be easier to read than BD-R, LG is just caving in to Hollywood or Sony for some gain somewhere (probably discounted payments to the BD Consortium (Cartel)

ocgw-proud owner of both LG and Pioneer BD drives

peace

 

[Webslinger]

BTW, do these matshita desktop drives also suffer from the region lock the laptop drives do?

For dvds, yep

 

[andy o]

Well Andy my friend I will lay it out for you

My LG BD-ROM/HD-DVD reader's specs are 6x read of BD-R (SL), but only 4.8x BD-ROM (SL) (BDMV), that is a classic "riplock"

The new 8x LG Burner reads BD-R @ 8x, but only 4.8x on BD-ROM (BDMV) making it even worse

The Pioneer BDR-203 has no such limitation, it reads both BD-R, and BD-ROM (BDMV) @ the same high 8x speed

ps. The Pioneer records to a couple of kinds of discs that the LG cannot

note: BD-ROM's are high quality "pressings" w/ real physical pits and should be easier to read than BD-R, LG is just caving in to Hollywood or Sony for some gain somewhere (probably discounted payments to the BD Consortium (Cartel)

ocgw-proud owner of both LG and Pioneer BD drives

peace

I got the same LG BD/HD-DVD drive everybody else has, and I'm pretty sure that I've done almost 6x with single-layer BD-ROMs at the end of the rips. That's how I found out about the 4.8x limitation (I hadn't bothered to read the specs for that), because some discs (DL ones, it turned out) were maxing out at 4.8x instead of the almost 6x I had seen before. I've never had a BD-R in this drive.

Anyway, that the 8x drive does this too sucks. Specs for BD-ROM do say 8x. Thanks for the info. The Pioneer one does seem like a good value, but even so right now it only seems to be available at retail price ($209).

 

[ocgw]

I got the same LG BD/HD-DVD drive everybody else has, and I'm pretty sure that I've done almost 6x with single-layer BD-ROMs at the end of the rips. That's how I found out about the 4.8x limitation (I hadn't bothered to read the specs for that), because some discs (DL ones, it turned out) were maxing out at 4.8x instead of the almost 6x I had seen before. I've never had a BD-R in this drive.

Anyway, that the 8x drive does this too sucks. Specs for BD-ROM do say 8x. Thanks for the info. The Pioneer one does seem like a good value, but even so right now it only seems to be available at retail price ($209).

Andy it has nothing to do w/ SL or DL AFAIK

I am quite certain that the LG drive will not read over 4.8x on SL BD-ROM (BDMV) Discs, not just DL BD-ROM (BDMV) discs

It is specifically limited when reading comerial Blu Ray movies (BDMV) "Hollywood", it says so right in the specs

4.8x is 21.6mb/s, 6x is 27mb/s, 8x is 36mb/s

ocgw

peace

 

[damnskippy]

This is why we flash the drives to remove limitations like this correct? Or is this an actual hardware limitation using mediacodespeededit to remove the riplock has nothing to do with?

 

[ocgw]

This is why we flash the drives to remove limitations like this correct? Or is this an actual hardware limitation using mediacodespeededit to remove the riplock has nothing to do with?

I used mcse to get my LG drive up to it's theoritical limit of 21mb/s but that was it, it is a manufacturer "self imposed" hardware limitation that needs a hacked firmware to defeat

ocgw

peace

 

[DrinkLyeAndDie]

MCSE does not remove "riplock" from drives in reference to BD read speed. MCSE removes the "riplock" associated with SD-DVD read speeds. ala42, himself, has posted here saying as much.

Now, having said the above, myself and at least one other person purchased LG HD-DVD/BD combo drives and our read speeds were far below the specs for the drive. After patching the firmware with MCSE the read speeds for BD increased from peaking at 6-8 MB/s to peaking at over 20 MB/s. I wasn't alone in this bizarre experience. Nonetheless, ala42 stated the read speed patch impacts "riplock" and SD-DVDs and not BD read speeds.

 

[ocgw]

MCSE does not remove "riplock" from drives in reference to BD read speed. MCSE removes the "riplock" associated with SD-DVD read speeds. ala42, himself, has posted here saying as much.

Now, having said the above, myself and at least one other person purchased LG HD-DVD/BD combo drives and our read speeds were far below the specs for the drive. After patching the firmware with MCSE the read speeds for BD increased from peaking at 6-8 MB/s to peaking at over 20 MB/s. I wasn't alone in this bizarre experience. Nonetheless, ala42 stated the read speed patch impacts "riplock" and SD-DVDs and not BD read speeds.

I don't know ala42, I suppose he is an authority of some sort if you value his word above our experience

Who is he exactly DLAD?

ocgw

peace

 

[Webslinger]

I don't know ala42, I suppose he is an authority of some sort if you value his word above our experience

Who is he exactly DLAD?

He is the author of MediaCodeSpeedEdit.

 

[ocgw]

He is the author of MediaCodeSpeedEdit.

I thought you were gonna' say that, but alas, I too am 1 of those ppl that got a benefit in BD read speed from mcse, it may have not been intentional, but it did the trick

ocgw

peace

 

[DrinkLyeAndDie]

I thought you were gonna' say that, but alas, I too am 1 of those ppl that got a benefit in BD read speed from, mcse, it may have not been intentional but it did the trick

ocgw

peace

The speed increase wasn't a removal of BD "riplock" at all. As far as I am aware no such thing currently exists for BD drives. What the patching did do was make my drive operate within the stated specs for speeds. Prior to patching my drive didn't even come close to functioning at the actual specifications of the drive. Now, it does. It does not exceed the specs for reading, however. That's important to note. We didn't gain extra speed out of the drive that wasn't originally intended by the manufacturer.

More importantly, after the first time I used the MCSE patched firmware I can now use any firmware for the drive be it patched or unpatched and the speed remains within specifications and not hobbled as the drive initially functioned. This leads me to wonder if the problem with slow speeds had to do with the factory installed firmware.

 

[damnskippy]

I see, good to know. I also got a speed bump after patching though i have not installed an unpatched version to see if it went back down.

 

[ocgw]

The speed increase wasn't a removal of BD "riplock" at all. As far as I am aware no such thing currently exists for BD drives. What the patching did do was make my drive operate within the stated specs for speeds. Prior to patching my drive didn't even come close to functioning at the actual specifications of the drive. Now, it does. It does not exceed the specs for reading, however. That's important to note. We didn't gain extra speed out of the drive that wasn't originally intended by the manufacturer.

More importantly, after the first time I used the MCSE patched firmware I can now use any firmware for the drive be it patched or unpatched and the speed remains within specifications and not hobbled as the drive initially functioned. This leads me to wonder if the problem with slow speeds had to do with the factory installed firmware.

I totally concur, mcse didn't fix riplock, it enabled the drive to operate up to its spec'd riplocked speed (like I already said lol)

What I am saying is spec'n a 6x, or 8x BD-R drive to 4.8x BD-ROM (BDMV) is the "designed in" riplock that cannot be broken w/o new firmware

ocgw

peace

 

[DrinkLyeAndDie]

I totally concur, mcse didn't fix riplock, it enabled the drive to operate up to its spec'd riplocked speed (like I already said lol)

What I am saying is spec'n a 6x, or 8x BD-R drive to 4.8x BD-ROM (BDMV) is the "designed in" riplock that cannot be broken w/o new firmware

ocgw

peace

In this situation we are disagreeing on the usage of the term "riplock". Frankly, I'm not completely sure as to it's origin. Most say it was introduced to deter copying videos while elsewhere it is stated that the purpose is to simply slow the rotational speed which will make the drive quieter. The latter explanation makes no real sense to me because what would the point be in selling a 16x DVD reader if it just drops to 2x or 4x for quietness? "Riplocked" drives function at 2x and 4x speeds the last I knew.

Now, what you are talking about are the physical limitations of the drive, itself. As the technology matures will will see faster reading and burning drives. The read speeds in the specs for your drive are not "riplock". Those are the acceptable speeds and the drive is produced to operate within those parameters which is different than intentionally droppping the read speed in certain situations be it to make the drive more quiet or deter copying. We wouldn't say that a 16x DVD reader that actually read at 16x as its specs state is "riplocked". It's merely operating at its peak read speed as it was designed to.

Anyway, this is just a case where we are using the term "riplocked" to mean different things.

 

[andy o]

what ocgw is saying is that 6x and 8x drives say that those are their specifications for "BD-ROM" media, but with BDMV BD-ROMs those actual max speeds go down to 4.8x. That does seem like an intentional limitation. Unfortunately, there is no other type of BD-ROM right now, so we can't really make that assertion regarding BDMV only. We could say that the specs are incorrect and misleading too.

That said, I'm almost sure I've reached almost 6x while ripping SL movies with the LG drive, but now I'm having some doubts. I'm at work, I'll try again later when I get home. With DL movies, it does max out at 4.8x, but those are the actual published specs for DL BD-ROM media of the drive so no surprise there. For the 8x drive though, it's supposed to be 8x for both. If they're limited to 4.8x they lost a customer. I've had good experience with Pioneer drives before.

 

[ocgw]

In this situation we are disagreeing on the usage of the term "riplock". Frankly, I'm not completely sure as to it's origin. Most say it was introduced to deter copying videos while elsewhere it is stated that the purpose is to simply slow the rotational speed which will make the drive quieter. The latter explanation makes no real sense to me because what would the point be in selling a 16x DVD reader if it just drops to 2x or 4x for quietness? "Riplocked" drives function at 2x and 4x speeds the last I knew.

Now, what you are talking about are the physical limitations of the drive, itself. As the technology matures will will see faster reading and burning drives. The read speeds in the specs for your drive are not "riplock". Those are the acceptable speeds and the drive is produced to operate within those parameters which is different than intentionally droppping the read speed in certain situations be it to make the drive more quiet or deter copying. We wouldn't say that a 16x DVD reader that actually read at 16x as its specs state is "riplocked". It's merely operating at its peak read speed as it was designed to.

Anyway, this is just a case where we are using the term "riplocked" to mean different things.

I see what you mean, but think about it, the LG drives are only limited in reading comercial Blu Ray movies (which should be the easiest to read), if a LG can read a dye recorded disc @ 8x it should be able to read a comercial stamped disc just as fast if not faster just like the Pioneer

The new LG drives read and write everything faster than the older drives BUT Hollywood movies, they are selling us out, and will NEVER see 1 more dime of my money until they cease this tactic

That is "riplock" in my book, even if it is disguised as a physical limitation

in my most humble of opinions

btw I am in my 15th year in GM Engineering, I have a good idea how these things work, and there is definitely "chit in the game" IMO

ps. Andy the new 8x LG drive is still spec'd @ 6x BD-ROM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136164

and 4.8x BDMV but it is hard to find now, they want you to find that out the hard way (newegg removed the info from their site)

AND they want $250USD for their top BD-burner compared to $210USD for the top Pioneer

AND the LG doesn't write BD-RE DL:bang:

ocgw

peace

 

[andy o]

I see, I was going by the specs listed on the cdfreaks thread. I was looking at the LG reader actually, which is $150. I figured the read specs would be the same. Maybe I'll just wait a little to see how that thread develops.

 

[Adbear]

Where did you read that it doesn't do DL BD-RE?

 

[ocgw]

Where did you read that it doesn't do DL BD-RE?

Well, it is not listed in the spec @ newegg, I am trying to download the spec sheet from the LG site now, but the USA site is down and the international won't download specs

That is for the 8x LG burner

CD Freaks does an exhaustive review on this drive and never make mention of BD-RE DL like the format doesn't even exist rotflmao

http://www.cdfreaks.com/reviews/LG-...lu-ray-Disc-Rewriter/Blu-ray-performance.html

ocgw

peace