PDVD8 & TrueHD Audio

[thedatman]

It turns out that most receivers probably have this capability, but the average user won't know how to use it. I think that my argument about the digital-to-analog converter quality still applies. Anyway, I know that there will still be some analog diehards, but when HDMI audio is fully implemented on PCs, they will be the only ones still using analog.

Only because I spent way to much money on this baby. I'm not getting rid of it till the warranty runs out. Besides someday they will have an upgrade to hdmi 1.3 or what ever the final one is.

and if that's a big if cyberlink does start encrypting the analog outs to be sent to a audio card capable of decrypting the analog at that point perhaps slysoft can help us out and us analog guys won't be left behind.

just like we paid extra for the HD option on anydvd I'm sure many would gladly pay for that too.

 

[roog]

Not me. As soon as I get all the pieces in place I'll go HDMI and use LPCM. However, CURRENTLY analog is the best sound I can get from my equipment which is why I use it. My only point on this analog vs digital "debate" is that far too many people equate digital to ALWAYS being superior to analog which is not the case. That's the only real point I was trying to make. HDMI has enough bandwidth to send an LPCM stream to a receiver. I'm good with that. It eliminates some of the drawbacks of analog (cable length, quality, etc). But SPDIF vs analog on HD audio tracks isn't even a question in my book.

I have no problems with your approach. By HDMI being fully implemented on PCs, I meant the use of LPCM as well. Right now, you can only get S/PDIF through HDMI on PCs. My real rub is the myth that analog is always better than digital.

From the specs that I've seen, it looks like HDAudio on PCs might have enough bandwidth for 8 channel LPCM. However, it remains to be implemented in a way that the output could be routed through HDMI. If a way could be devised to make it work, this would definitely be the lowest cost way to provide full bandwidth 8 channel audio through HDMI.

 

[roog]

Only because I spent way to much money on this baby. I'm not getting rid of it till the warranty runs out. Besides someday they will have an upgrade to hdmi 1.3 or what ever the final one is.

and if that's a big if cyberlink does start encrypting the analog outs to be sent to a audio card capable of decrypting the analog at that point perhaps slysoft can help us out and us analog guys won't be left behind.

just like we paid extra for the HD option on anydvd I'm sure many would gladly pay for that too.

Your in for a long wait. It looks like your amp has a 20 year warranty. By that time, who knows what the standard will be?

 

[SamuriHL]

I have no problems with your approach. By HDMI being fully implemented on PCs, I meant the use of LPCM as well. Right now, you can only get S/PDIF through HDMI on PCs. My real rub is the myth that analog is always better than digital.

From the specs that I've seen, it looks like HDAudio on PCs might have enough bandwidth for 8 channel LPCM. However, it remains to be implemented in a way that the output could be routed through HDMI. If a way could be devised to make it work, this would definitely be the lowest cost way to provide full bandwidth 8 channel audio through HDMI.

Indeed. That would be pretty sweet. For now I may end up picking up that Onkyo 576 receiver when it comes out and hooking up my PS3 through it. That would certainly give me the absolute best sound quality I'm going to get. I'd VERY much like to get my HTPC up to that level of sound, though, so, I really do hope they get us a solution this summer. Of course, I'm going to have to pick up another couple of speakers if I get the Onkyo as I only have 5.1 sound right now. Darn.

 

[roog]

Indeed. That would be pretty sweet. For now I may end up picking up that Onkyo 576 receiver when it comes out and hooking up my PS3 through it. That would certainly give me the absolute best sound quality I'm going to get. I'd VERY much like to get my HTPC up to that level of sound, though, so, I really do hope they get us a solution this summer. Of course, I'm going to have to pick up another couple of speakers if I get the Onkyo as I only have 5.1 sound right now. Darn.

The Onkyo 576 looks really nice for the price but unless you have some really efficient speakers, in my experience, 80 watts per channel is not enough to get the volume level I want.

 

[SamuriHL]

The Onkyo 576 looks really nice for the price but unless you have some really efficient speakers, in my experience, 80 watts per channel is not enough to get the volume level I want.

It's only 80? Crap. That won't do with my speakers. The yamaha can drive these things through the roof. The 605 is 90 which would probably be ok. And I just looked on Amazon...they're blowing out the Onkyo's right now. 350 bucks for the 605. TEMPTING....SOOOO tempting.

 

[SamuriHL]

OH FRACK ME!

http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR606&class=Receiver&p=i

::MAJOR DROOL:: I think my heart just broke.

 

[frg]

A guy once explained to me a basic analogy of digital sound . He said, " analog sound is like a wave infinitely smooth. Digital, say CDs take that same wave instead of being smooth it would have 44.1 thousand steps. In 24/96 you would have 96 thousand steps. I never really understood the difference between 16 and 24 bit. The step analogy make since to me perhaps over simplified

About the difference between 16 and 24 bit, it is exactly like with a picture.

On your PC, try switching the Color Quality in the Display Properties of your Monitor, from 32 to 16 bits, and you will notice that the color palette will be drastically reduced.

Well it's the same with sound!

Using more bits allows to define with more nuance a sound.

You will notice f.i. that dialogues become more intellligible, when encoded with 24 bit instead of 16.

To make it short:
- Frequency means definition, like 1024x768 or 1920x1080 for a picture.
- Bit allocation means nuance, like 16 bit or 32 bit colors for a picture.

Hope this helps you...

 

[frg]

I have no problems with your approach. By HDMI being fully implemented on PCs, I meant the use of LPCM as well. Right now, you can only get S/PDIF through HDMI on PCs. My real rub is the myth that analog is always better than digital.

From the specs that I've seen, it looks like HDAudio on PCs might have enough bandwidth for 8 channel LPCM. However, it remains to be implemented in a way that the output could be routed through HDMI. If a way could be devised to make it work, this would definitely be the lowest cost way to provide full bandwidth 8 channel audio through HDMI.

By the way, unzipping DTHD or DTS-MA inside the HTPC, would be the only right way to send HD soundtracks to an amplifier!

If HD soundtracks are decoded inside the amplifier, it will be impossible to mix a second soundtrack (from a PiP comment f.i., like in Resident Evil: Extinction).
In fact this could be only used when watching the bare movie (i.e. with no interactivity at all).

When sending LPCM to your amplifier (which only needs to be HDMI 1.1), the only problem will be that you won't ever see the Dolby or the DTS logo light on in your [last generation, HMI 1.3, more expensive ] amp's display.

How frustrating!

 

[roog]

OH FRACK ME!

http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR606&class=Receiver&p=i

::MAJOR DROOL:: I think my heart just broke.

I'd go for the 805. Plenty of power (130W), THX2 ultra, and better DACs. You should be able to find it at a higher discount than the lower price models. The only thing I don't like is it only has 3 HDMI inputs. I like having 4 for PC, PS3, XBOX 360, and Cable. I could make out with 3 if I used Component Video for the 360 but I hate the way they implemented the S/PDIF connector.

 

[SamuriHL]

I'd go for the 805. Plenty of power (130W), THX2 ultra, and better DACs. You should be able to find it at a higher discount than the lower price models. The only thing I don't like is it only has 3 HDMI inputs. I like having 4 for PC, PS3, XBOX 360, and Cable. I could make out with 3 if I used Component Video for the 360 but I hate the way they implemented the S/PDIF connector.

I'd have to look at the price. That's going to be over 500 bucks I think. I'm not sure my budget will allow that any time soon. I'm not even sure I can swing 500 at the moment.

 

[kdssrugby]

I was perusing the AVS forums lately, and I ve been noticing a lot of DTS HD MA tracks are being reported to have loud pops. Some are: Golden Compass, AVP:Requiem, the Fly and a number of others. I curious if anyone knows if this is a hardware issue or an encoding issue. It makes me leary to want to play those tracks (once we have DTS HD MA capability) and risk my speakers.

 

[roog]

If HD soundtracks are decoded inside the amplifier, it will be impossible to mix a second soundtrack (from a PiP comment f.i., like in Resident Evil: Extinction).

Samuri says he's done PIP using LPCM. Look at his earlier posts.

 

[SamuriHL]

Samuri says he's done PIP using LPCM. Look at his earlier posts.

Right, and that's being done by the player not the amplifier. LPCM is the only way to mix audio streams together. Bitstreaming doesn't allow for that. Bitstreaming is the method used to send a TrueHD/DTS-HD MA/etc track directly to the receiver for it to decode. Using that method, no PIP audio.

 

[hlkc]

hlkc before you start to throw the baby out with the bath water. Let me say this, I would bet your Theta Digital Casablanca probably sound better than any of the receivers that have been talked about here. I would not even be surprised if the Theta using the spdif is going to sound better than a $500 receiver usind hdmi 1.3. I was looking at the Theta Digital Casablanca 3 and it has 5.1 analog ins does yours?

If you have the analog ins than use them with the onboard card for now and go somewhere that you can look at many different audio card, hopefully somewhere you can return it if you don't like it and go with analogs. Unless you want to spend another 4 or 5 grand on a new processor. I'm surprised if they do not have an upgrade path.

Bryston does and they are in the same league. Like I said before Bryston does not even offer hdmi in the upgrade. They will but not until the standard is set. I can wait I have another 17 years of warranty left

Thank you for your compliment!!!

This is bother me the MOST!!! I can't tell you how much I love my Casablanca. If it comes down to I must have other receiver to do all these TrueHD Audio, I might even want to do that before get rid of my CB. Btw, Theta will have the upgrade path to HDMI 1.3 for CB in Sep/Oct but I have the feeling it will cost few thousands of dollars That's why I am trying to go around and see what I can do... They offer something called 6 shooter today and with that I can able to do the analog input for all 6 channels instead of just 2 now. I am thinking to do that now.

 

[hlkc]

Of course this is academic as the audio on a Blu-ray disc IS digital there is no "all analogue" option.

The question is where it gets converted from digital to analogue - on the PC or in the amp. It comes down to which device has the better digital to analogue converters and, if we choose to convert to analogue on the PC, ensuring there is no signal loss in the connectors and cables.

I can't agree more about your statement :agree:

 

[hlkc]

HI hlkc, sorry for taking so long to reply, I ve been studying for exams. You understand correctly. Where does the X-FI prelude fit it? What happens is you buy that card and use it like a normal sound card. You then buy the extension card and place it in the slot next to it and connect it by a cable. The HDMI extension card requires the X-FI prelude to work. You cannot use it by itself.

Actually I just get off a 20 mins call with Auzentech and I got more info now.

1) They are working on a card that with combine X-Fi and X-tension all-in-one in Q3. If you have X-Fi now, you can just get the X-tension. If you don't like me, just wait and get this card and save us a slot.

2) Press release is coming out Q2. No above products we talked here will be release until Q3, the earliest

3) Once we have the combo, X-Fi and X-tension then we can just HDMI 1.3 out to TrueHD receiver and we will able to have TrueHD audio like today DTS and DD...

 

[hlkc]

What I was saying if you had already purchased a $3-5,000 pre-amp / processor it would sound better than a $500 receiver that has hdmi 1.3. Of coarse we will never know for sure. No way to test. So if you can only afford a $500 receiver buy it and enjoy it do all the tweaking you can afford but if you already own a expensive highend unit don't throw it out because it has no hdmi 1.3 input. At least not till the format is actually in place and all products are on the market. Besides most films are in 16/48 anyhow for those that are what you have available today is as good as it's going to get.

Yup, my sytem cost $10K+ and I sure not ready to throw it out to window for a receiver just to have TrueHD logo on it.

I don't meant o show off but here is my system and I love it every min from 2 channel iTune playback to 5.1 PDVD BD playback.

 

[kdssrugby]

Thanks for the update HLKC. I don thave that much room in my case so a 1 card solution would be the best.I update The FAQ on the first page.
And man, that is some crazy hardware you got.I m only a poor university student, so i only have "crappy" Harmon Kardon HKTS 15's. 1000watt 5.1, Sharp 42 lcd and an Onkyo 605.

 

[hlkc]

A word of caution - Don't assume that the Azunetech extension board will support TrueHD / DTS MA bitstreaming. There's a thread about it over at AVSForum, and the folks from Azunetech will only commit to LPCM output.

Edit: Here's the AVSForum link

Yes, when I just on the phone with them, they sounded like he won't or they are still working on that.