Does rip to harddisk remove Cinavia?

[meimeiriver]

It's not that easy as you put it. There's no open source or freeware HD audio encoder on existence, and lpcm takes up a huge amount of space which could otherwise used for video quality

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Yeah, HD audio encoding is tricky; but LPCM is pretty straightforward (I used to rip HD Audio to LPCM, when I was still streaming with my old PS3). But since AnyDVD HD is about ripping to begin with, size shouldn't matter, should it?! (It's all going to hard disk anyway). I now have a Zbox, so no issues with Cinavia; but should I ever need to have it removed, I'd really much rather see it ripped to 24-bit LPCM than AC3. (In fact, when you're going to rip to AC3, you might as well just extract the existing Blu-Ray AC3 stream, and be lossless about it)

 

[Ch3vr0n]

Anydvd isn't about ripping, it's exit decrypting and enabling playback on devices where playback otherwise wouldn't be possible. The ripper didn't even exist initially. Now you're also mixing up ripping with encoding like CloneBD does. Ripping simply copies, encoding to lpcm requires audio processing and that's something anydvd simply cannot do. You're comparing apples with oranges.

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[meimeiriver]

You're comparing apples with oranges.

Am I?! So, are you saying AnyDVD doesn't convert the audio to AC3 itself? Then how does it remove Cinavia from the HD stream? I mean, is the HD Audio we 'see' just the same, but sans the Cinavia watermark? Little confused now. It seems like you're saying AnyDVD HD doesn't remove Cinavia at all.

 

[Ch3vr0n]

It doesn't, why you think it requires CloneBD to work? Anydvd never was able to encode anything whether it be audio or video. Anydvd taps into CloneBD, it checks is downscaling is being done and if so applies it's fix DURING the actual encoding that's being done by CloneBD. CloneBD doesn't know or care that anydvd is tapping into it, all it knows is that it has been told to encode to ac3 and that's what it does.

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[meimeiriver]

It doesn't, why you think it requires CloneBD to work? Anydvd never was able to encode anything whether it be audio or video. Anydvd taps into CloneBD, it checks is downscaling is being done and if so applies it's fix DURING the actual encoding that's being done by CloneBD. CloneBD doesn't know or care that anydvd is tapping into it, all it knows is that it has been told to encode to ac3 and that's what it does.

Ah well, yes, that would explain it. It's all clear now.

 

[altae]

So the request for encoding in 24 bit LPCM should actually be directed at Elby since they are the developers of CloneBD.

 

[Ch3vr0n]

Lpcm support will need to be added by elby yes, but anydvd will need an updated to the fix then as well to work with lpcm recoding.

 

[James]

So the request for encoding in 24 bit LPCM should actually be directed at Elby since they are the developers of CloneBD.

Encoding to 24bit LPCM will make the files significantly bigger.
Instead, I recommend, that you rethink how you playback your content. I suggest to use a playback device, which can't play original Blu-ray discs.
If it doesn't, it doesn't require an AACS License and therefore doesn't require a Cinavia detector.

 

[meimeiriver]

Encoding to 24bit LPCM will make the files significantly bigger.
Instead, I recommend, that you rethink how you playback your content. I suggest to use a playback device, which can't play original Blu-ray discs.
If it doesn't, it doesn't require an AACS License and therefore doesn't require a Cinavia detector.

Yeah, not rethinking anything. Seriously, judging by the ease at which people are willing to give up their HD-Audio, I wonder how many of you actually listen to HD-Audio!? You need a HD Amp for that, to begin with. I have always streamed HD audio, even in my PS3 days, having converted the HD-Audio first, to LPCM. That way I got to stream both HD-Video and Hd-Audio.

As for 'Encoding to 24bit LPCM will make the files significantly bigger,' a typical LPCM stream will be between 7G or 9G. Yes, that's the size of a full DVD9, but who cares?! If you have room to store/stream a 50G Blu-ray, that's peanuts.

Also, more importantly, have you guys ever heard of the Pismo File Mount Audit Package?! It allows you to mount virtual streams. I use it in VapourSynth, for one. Then I can mount a psy script, and it gives me a directory, with like a 147G (!) uncompressed AVI file. Except it takes up no real space at all, as it's all virtualized. Thay way you can quickly seek thru your AVI, and inspect scenes, etc, and then unmount it again. The same could be done for AnyDVD-HD, if they wrote a Pismo plugin for it. That way the HD-Audio could be represented as a LPCM stream, that really could be however long it needs to be, and be playable, thru your virtualized folder (where you could copy it from too, if you want to rip), without taking up real space. Of course, that would require AnyDVD-HD to do the HD-Audio decoding. But it would be very elegant!

Anyway, to each his own; but I'm certainly not willing to give up on HD-Audio.

 

[altae]

I don't have such problems, generally I play my discs on my pc where AnyDVD suppresses Cinavia protection just fine. But I also cannot see a problem concerning the file size of a rip with 24 LPCM since an ordinary Blue Ray rip is by design about 40 GB. A few GB more or less does not make that much of a difference anymore under these circumstances.

 

[James]

Yeah, not rethinking anything. Seriously, judging by the ease at which people are willing to give up their HD-Audio, I wonder how many of you actually listen to HD-Audio!? You need a HD Amp for that, to begin with. I have always streamed HD audio, even in my PS3 days, having converted the HD-Audio first, to LPCM. That way I got to stream both HD-Video and Hd-Audio.

I listen to HD audio all the time, and haven't been hit by Cinavia once.
Converting to LPCM isn't a good solution. Think about object audio like Atmos, Auro 3D or DTS:X. You can't convert this to LPCM lossless.
Just leave the audio untouched and let the Amp decode it.

Also, more importantly, have you guys ever heard of the Pismo File Mount Audit Package?! It allows you to mount vurtual streams. I use it in VapourSynth, for one. Then I can mount a psy script, and it gives me a directory, with like a 147G (!) uncompressed AVI file. Except it takes up no real space at all, as it's all virtualized. Thay way you can quickly seek thru your AVI, and inspect scenes, etc, and then unmount it again. The same could be done for AnyDVD-HD, if they wrote a Pismo plugin for it. That way the HD-Audio could be represented as a LPCM stream, that really could be however long it needs to be, and be playable, thru your virtualized folder (where you could copy it from too, if you want to rip), without taking up real space. Of course, that would require AnyDVD-HD to do the HD-Audio decoding. But it would be very elegant!

And at which point are you hit by Cinavia? Use a playback device not requiring an AACS license and enjoy the show.

Anyway, to each his own; but I'm certainly not willing to give up on HD-Audio.

I don't understand why you even think that you have to.

 

[meimeiriver]

I listen to HD audio all the time, and haven't been hit by Cinavia once.
Converting to LPCM isn't a good solution. Think about object audio like Atmos, Auro 3D or DTS:X. You can't convert this to LPCM lossless.
Just leave the audio untouched and let the Amp decode it.

And at which point are you hit by Cinavia? Use a playback device not requiring an AACS license and enjoy the show.

I don't understand why you even think that you have to.

Yeah, I don't think (public domain) Atmos decoders exist yet. (And even if there were, my Amp can't handle that: I'd have to buy a brand new one). The way it's currently done (ffmpeg/eac3to) is just to discard the surplus Atmos data.

And yes, I use a Zbox, plus Kodi, so the times I'm actually hit by Cinavia is 0. My eye simply caught a story about AnyDVD-HD having licked Cinavia, and I was kinda disappointed to read that this process involved converting to AC3 (at which point I figured at least 24-bit LPCM would be in order).

 

[James]

And yes, I use a Zbox, plus Kodi, so the times I'm actually hit by Cinavia is 0.

Good. So you certainly don't have to rethink your playback strategy.
I thought you have a Cinevia problem, and that this is the reason you asked.

My eye simply caught a story about AnyDVD-HD having licked Cinavia, and I was kinda disappointed to read that this process involved converting to AC3 (at which point I figured at least 24-bit LPCM would be in order).

If you ever listen to a track de-Cinaviaized by AnyDVD, you will immediately be certain, that AC3 really isn't the problem.
AnyDVD's Cinavia removal is for the casual viewer, who wants to watch a copied disc while doing some housework. It is quick, easy and hassle free. But is not "high-end" audio in any way. It won't sound better with LPCM. Trust me.
People who desire quality in a home theatre setup should evaluate other options. Like you did. Like I did. Like any sane person should do.

 

[mcmenace]

Try this tread, seems to be getting answers

Ch3vr0n said: ↑
Mount your iso or load it into CloneBD directly, make sure in AnyDVD you have "remove cinavia watermark..." setting enabled. On the Last screen before you hit go select "downscale audio to ac3". If you did it correctly the fox icon will turn purple.
Did all that, don't forget I've had this program since December, '14. BTW, exact same thing with Mockingjay 2. Leads me to believe it's not the disc at all but the protection hasn't been defeated.

Don't see the usual guys jumping in and saying how they got it, of course if you remember a year ago somebody here said to ignore me cos I was PO'd about cloneBD's slow progress and crashes, which were being blamed on my high-end PC but mysteriously went away and PC stayed the same.

Well it got fixed and I went away. Don't wanna spend my life here, thought this was place to go to get answers. Rethinking my commitment to anyDVD if it cant do 2 movies now and once they get wind of that, they'll use it on all the movies. May start a thread about this so people thinking about re-upping, like myself, are aware.

Ch3vr0n said: ↑
I'd suggest you send that image to elby along with the last log you have of that disc. Perhaps that will give them something to work with. Perhaps you can use MediaInfo or something on the m2ts file CloneBD identifies as clip 520.
Actually wondering about cloneBD, Redfox relationship. Sent my original issue to Elby support as usual.....

Dear Sirs,

Went to burn Mockingjay Part 1 with cloneBD, partial, cinavia protection checked. Got to 46% of reading and stopped. No errors, just "froze". Created an ISO file with anyDVD HD successfully, burned it with IMGburn successfully but it did not remove the cinavia because IMGburn won't work with anyDVD activated although the backup was successful and is watchable until Cinavia kicks in.

Tried to burn the same ISO file that I was able to watch with IMGburn using cloneBD and once again errors appeared at about the same part of the reading process. Is there a way to get a backup of this movie without Cinavia with IMGburn? And why does IMGburn successfully process the ISO file but cloneBD will not?? Please help.

Got this back.....

Thank you for your e-mail.

We are sorry, but CloneBD cannot copy any protected content.

Kind regards,

xxxxxxx
elby Support

What kind of answer is that??? They used to help, especially the gentlemen that signed this. Never got any reply like this, looks to me like a form letter, same kind slysoft put out after they closed.

 

[meimeiriver]

Got this back.....

Thank you for your e-mail.

We are sorry, but CloneBD cannot copy any protected content.

Kind regards,

xxxxxxx
elby Support

What kind of answer is that??? They used to help, especially the gentlemen that signed this. Never got any reply like this, looks to me like a form letter, same kind slysoft put out after they closed.

Why does their answer surprise you? Their site clearly says: "CloneBD lets you copy any unprotected Blu-ray to your hard drive, or any blank Blu-ray disc." (Not that I've ever seen an unprotected Blu-ray, but that's another matter.) It's AnyDVD HD that does the protection removal.

 

[mcmenace]

Why does their answer surprise you?

Because when I asked them questions like that before, they would at least to attempt an explanation. And it's the anyDVD/cloneBD combo thats supposed to work together, and in this case it's not happening. AnyDVD made the ISO that IMGburn copied, but without cloneBD's ability to remove cinavia. CloneBD with same ISO from anyDVD froze at clip 580 or thereabouts. Same thing happened to adbear BTW. Make sense?? Error attached is also a cloneBD error. Doesn't that deserve an answer?

 

[meimeiriver]

Because when I asked them questions like that before, they would at least to attempt an explanation. And it's the anyDVD/cloneBD combo thats supposed to work together, and in this case it's not happening. AnyDVD made the ISO that IMGburn copied, but without cloneBD's ability to remove cinavia. CloneBD with same ISO from anyDVD froze at clip 580 or thereabouts. Same thing happened to adbear BTW. Make sense?? Error attached is also a cloneBD error. Doesn't that deserve an answer?

Error 8007001f usually denotes a not properly working device. Have you simply tried playing the Blu-Ray directly (with AnyDVD HD present)? If the error persists, it's really AnyDVD HD at fault here (or your Blu-Ray player, really). If it plays just fine at the AnyDVD HD stage, it must be CloneBD. (A combination of which is still possible, if AnyDVD HD would not create an entirely compatible Blu-Ray structure, that some players may accept, and others, like CloneBD, not).

I highly doubt it's Cinavia-related, though. Just copying files shouldn't normally trigger any protection mechanism (the Cinavia protection only kicks in when playing the audio track).

 

[mcmenace]

Error 8007001f usually denotes a not properly working device. Have you simply tried playing the Blu-Ray directly (with AnyDVD HD present)? If the error persists, it's really AnyDVD HD at fault here (or your Blu-Ray player, really). If it plays just fine at the AnyDVD HD stage, it must be CloneBD. (A combination of which is still possible, if AnyDVD HD would not create an entirely compatible Blu-Ray structure, that some players may accept, and others, like CloneBD, not).

I highly doubt it's Cinavia-related, though. Just copying files shouldn't normally trigger any protection mechanism (the Cinavia protection only kicks in when playing the audio track).

Thanks for WB, agree not a cinavia problem as related to process. Disagree about blu ray player. I created an ISO using anyDVD HD. I copied it with IMGburn. It played fine disregarding cinavia interrupting sound, but played thru entirely. BluRay player, if the cause, most likely wouldn't allow that to play start to finish. I would rule it out.

Here's the problem IMO. Stated ISO when attempting burn with cloneBD results in program freezing at same clip, for both myself and adbear, over and over using multiple discs of Mockingjay 1, same thing happens. Now tried Mockingjay 2 totally different movie, year later, same freeze at same clip as Mockingjay 1.Seems like they found something that works, protection wise and hasn't been dealt with.

Must be something anyDVD/cloneBD can't handle. If no cinavia, would have had clean copy via anyDVD/IMGburn ISO. Thing is, Part 1 came out last year, part 2 last week. Had to be encountered before by someone here. Maybe not bluray. I think it needs analyzed by those in the know and dealt with accordingly, as any other protection scheme. Especially since last years and this years releases failing with identical causes.

 

[Adbear]

I've actually had it go through a couple of times, so it seems to be hit and miss. I've had more success with a mounted ISO than anything else.

 

[mcmenace]

I've actually had it go through a couple of times, so it seems to be hit and miss. I've had more success with a mounted ISO than anything else.

IMO that's unacceptable for a top of the line program, wouldn't you agree? Hit and miss ISO's?? Mounted or unmounted?? Bet some people here can't even do ISO's much less mount them. Isn't that cloneBD's job? Surely can do better than that. Protection scheme may need re-looked at. Getting same results with Pt. 2 , a year later.