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CBR

0x0x0x0x0 said:
Instead of us messing about, can you not download a VBR manifest and a corresponding CBR manifest and show the better bitrate in the latter?
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I'm not sure I'm following? You asked me how to download a CBR stream from AMZ and I've explained how you do it...?

I'm not here to debate whether VBR or CBR from AMZ is better - regardless of the average bitrate of AMZ VBR streams being higher, 9 times out of 10 the CBR stream is of better quality. And just to confirm, I think this is little to do with CBR vs VBR in general. This is purely down to VBR vs CBR on AMZ.

For 99% of people, the difference between the two will be negligable but it's a fact that the CBR is better 90-95% of the time. There are some older shows/movies/encodes that go against this rule and if you see x264 encoding settings in the mediainfo and it's VBR then it's probably better than VBR (there are still exceptions to this). But it's few and far between....
 
Don't see why it's hard to follow: you pretty much said the only way to get CBR is a massively contorted set of steps, I have to ask myself whether it's worth it, would I get CBR at 4.1 or CBR 3.0 for example? Just because the site kicks back something that looks like CBR doesn't mean it's better...
 
Maybe we run into a debate of principles here, but how can a video with a constant bitrate have a better overall quality than a varible bitrate video of the same size (which implicates the same average bitrate)?

Slow and dark scenes might look better in CBR, but when it comes to action and fire in a scene, i want my bits distributed there (meaning VBR), or else it looks like crap... :eek:
 
0x0x0x0x0 said:
Don't see why it's hard to follow: you pretty much said the only way to get CBR is a massively contorted set of steps, I have to ask myself whether it's worth it, would I get CBR at 4.1 or CBR 3.0 for example? Just because the site kicks back something that looks like CBR doesn't mean it's better...
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You specifically asked how to get your browser to stream CBR and at the same time pretty much admitted it's better. I told you how to get CBR from your browser so I don't know why you're still asking questions?

And also like I said, I don't care whether you think the CBR stream on AMZ is better than the VBR stream on AMZ. Download both for yourself and decide as I could not care less. I can tell you that 95% of the time the CBR will be better.

I've got nothing further to add so enjoy your life.
 
cartman0208 said:
Maybe we run into a debate of principles here, but how can a video with a constant bitrate have a better overall quality than a varible bitrate video of the same size (which implicates the same average bitrate)?

Slow and dark scenes might look better in CBR, but when it comes to action and fire in a scene, i want my bits distributed there (meaning VBR), or else it looks like crap... :eek:
Click to expand...

That's why I said I'm not going to get into a debate about VBR vs CBR in general. Relatively speaking and in general, yes you are right. But the encoding settings from source from AMZ are different when they encode CBR vs VBR.

Like I just said to 0x0x0x0x0x0, just download yourself and do your own comparisons. Most people would not tell the difference and most people are even upset that an episode of a TV Show can be 3gb and want it smaller so won't even care about this really small detail
 
cartman0208 said:
Maybe we run into a debate of principles here, but how can a video with a constant bitrate have a better overall quality than a varible bitrate video of the same size (which implicates the same average bitrate)?

Slow and dark scenes might look better in CBR, but when it comes to action and fire in a scene, i want my bits distributed there (meaning VBR), or else it looks like crap... :eek:
Click to expand...

Pretty much what I've been saying since day one... ;)
 
LUT-FC said:
That's why I said I'm not going to get into a debate about VBR vs CBR in general. Relatively speaking and in general, yes you are right. But the encoding settings from source from AMZ are different when they encode CBR vs VBR.

Like I just said to 0x0x0x0x0x0, just download yourself and do your own comparisons. Most people would not tell the difference and most people are even upset that an episode of a TV Show can be 3gb and want it smaller so won't even care about this really small detail
Click to expand...

That's the problem with the CBR brigade, you make a claim, refuse to back it up with any objective metrics, then throw toys out of your pram and say "go look for yourself." Whenever I try to prove something, I always say X is better than Y, because of A, B, C, here is the data, judge for yourself...
 
0x0x0x0x0 said:
That's the problem with the CBR brigade, you make a claim, refuse to back it up with any objective metrics, then throw toys out of your pram and say "go look for yourself." Whenever I try to prove something, I always say X is better than Y, because of A, B, C, here is the data, judge for yourself...
Click to expand...

0x0x0x0x0 said:
I, too, know that CBR is available for every single video on Prime, but in their backroom because that how they want it delivered (preferably at 30Mbps for 1080p), doesn't mean that Amazon will store copies of CBR on its CDN (which they don't own and have to pay for) or stream that to the browsers. If you can get CBR from elsewhere, there are two plausible answers. One, someone's using a screen recorder (maybe even downscaling from 4K); two, someone who can get their hands on submitted materials transcodes it and seeds it... I could find no way to force a web browser, Prime App, or the applet on my UHD player to pull CBR from Prime, and boy did I try!

Why do you say Amazon's VBR is rather poor, what objective metric did you use, you didn't pause and stare at every frame (that's meant to be on screen for at most 1/(24000/1001) of a second)?

Maybe I'm dumb, if so, please tell me how to get my browser to stream CBR from Prime...
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I mean come on....you literally asked for someone to tell you how to get CBR and then bitch and moan when I've shown you how to do so...

The 'problem with the CBR brigade', as you put it, is irrelevant. I don't work for AMZ, I don't give a shit how they deliver their content and I don't care what quality you wish to download. Like I said for most people the difference between the two is negligable so download what you want.

EDIT: Sorry just to add, the VBR vs CBR as I'm referring to in this conversation, is purely AMZ encodes and nothing else. I'm not comparing the two in general outside of AMZ
 
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From what I read in other threads, the CBR streams had a MUCH higher bitrate than the commonly available VBR streams, like 4 times the bitrate... of course those look better ...
BUT...
If I put 2000hp in a Toyota, it easily beats the 500hp Ferrari in a drag race ... that doesn't mean I want the Toyota :LOL:
 
LUT-FC said:
I mean come on....you literally asked for someone to tell you how to get CBR and then bitch and moan when I've shown you how to do so...

The 'problem with the CBR brigade', as you put it, is irrelevant. I don't work for AMZ, I don't give a shit how they deliver their content and I don't care what quality you wish to download. Like I said for most people the difference between the two is negligable so download what you want.

EDIT: Sorry just to add, the VBR vs CBR as I'm referring to in this conversation, is purely AMZ encodes and nothing else. I'm not comparing the two in general outside of AMZ
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I think you need to go back and re-read what I send in the second thing I said... What I said was Amazon want the content delivered, i. e. to THEM by the STUDIOS, hence "in their backroom". What Amazon do internally is very different to the customer facing side, I would've thought that was obvious...

If your reply were "hack the CDN to supply whatever" doesn't mean that I'd be ready or willing to do so. As things happened your "how to" was way more convoluted than reasonable, and given that you already have it installed (otherwise how would you reasonably know about it), one would have thought that's it's literally a trivial matter for you to download two plain text manifest files and show the difference.

Since as you're huffing and puffing while not putting up a seemingly trivial piece of evidence, I can only draw one conclusion...
 
0x0x0x0x0 said:
I think you need to go back and re-read what I send in the second thing I said... What I said was Amazon want the content delivered, i. e. to THEM by the STUDIOS, hence "in their backroom". What Amazon do internally is very different to the customer facing side, I would've thought that was obvious...

If your reply were "hack the CDN to supply whatever" doesn't mean that I'd be ready or willing to do so. As things happened your "how to" was way more convoluted than reasonable, and given that you already have it installed (otherwise how would you reasonably know about it), one would have thought that's it's literally a trivial matter for you to download two plain text manifest files and show the difference.

Since as you're huffing and puffing while not putting up a seemingly trivial piece of evidence, I can only draw one conclusion...
Click to expand...

What the studios give AMZ, NF etc. is irrelavent to what the consumer gets and has nothing to do with our conversation, nor how AMZ and NF encode their files (CBR and MPL being the best encodes (most of the time) respectively - there is another one you can argue with...

Bitrate (whether it be VBR or CBR) is not a way to prove better quality by showing you two mediainfo's if that's what you mean?

Lastly, I couldn't give a f++k what you download and I hope that's clear. If you download VBR/CBR, someone videoing in a cinema etc. I really couldn't care....YOU! Yes YOU! asked how to download CBR. I told you how to do so (which I've now removed because you're such a prick)
 
LUT-FC said:
What the studios give AMZ, NF etc. is irrelavent to what the consumer gets and has nothing to do with our conversation, nor how AMZ and NF encode their files (CBR and MPL being the best encodes (most of the time) respectively - there is another one you can argue with...

Bitrate (whether it be VBR or CBR) is not a way to prove better quality by showing you two mediainfo's if that's what you mean?

Lastly, I couldn't give a fuck what you download and I hope that's clear. If you download VBR/CBR, someone videoing in a cinema etc. I really couldn't care....YOU! Yes YOU! asked how to download CBR. I told you how to do so (which I've now removed because you're such a prick)
Click to expand...


I'm still waiting for the two manifest files... Can you prove anything or just going to be arm waving? I would've thought if you wanted to make a point, it'd be literally a matter of seconds...
 
0x0x0x0x0 said:
I'm still waiting for the two manifest files... Can you prove anything or just going to be arm waving? I would've thought if you wanted to make a point, it'd be literally a matter of seconds...
Click to expand...

What are you asking for??? Two mpds? 1 from the VBR manifest and 1 from the CBR manifest?

Happy to send you this but what does it prove?
 
LUT-FC said:
What the studios give AMZ, NF etc. is irrelavent to what the consumer gets and has nothing to do with our conversation, nor how AMZ and NF encode their files (CBR and MPL being the best encodes (most of the time) respectively - there is another one you can argue with...

Bitrate (whether it be VBR or CBR) is not a way to prove better quality by showing you two mediainfo's if that's what you mean?

Lastly, I couldn't give a f++k what you download and I hope that's clear. If you download VBR/CBR, someone videoing in a cinema etc. I really couldn't care....YOU! Yes YOU! asked how to download CBR. I told you how to do so (which I've now removed because you're such a prick)
Click to expand...
Please watch your language. Stay on topic and don't get emotional.
 
0x0x0x0x0 said:
Instead of us messing about, can you not download a VBR manifest and a corresponding CBR manifest and show the better bitrate in the latter?
Click to expand...

No matter what, 95% of the time constant bit rate on Amazon is always going to be better no matter what the bit rate is for variable bit rate. Mainly because Amazon does better with constant bit rate versus their variable bit rate version
 
I'm starting to think that there is literally no evidence to support all of this arm waving, why is nobody putting anything up that someone else can look at?
 
Don't even bother mentioning the words screen recorder because it is totally irrelevant.
 
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