1.2.0.4 codec question

[sycor]

It's great that there is a distinction between the DV and non-DV content since the DV seems to mess a lot of people up with the colors and equipment not being able to play. But aside from that, is there a benefit to using AVC over HEVC or visa versa? From what I can tell is HEVC should provide a smaller file or a better quality at the same size file. But for example, The Matrix on HM for AVC offers up to 1920x816, meaning the black bars should not be there. In HEVC it's 1920x1080 meaning the bars are there. So, while the resolution is technically the same, the lack of black bars is typically preferred, no? And of course the HEVC offers up to 3840x2160 so obviously a higher resolution availability with HEVC.

 

[obertc]

@sycor, depending on the version of AVC that is used, both (AVC and HEVC) will support up to 8K UHD (8192 X 4320). Now, whether your hardware will support it is a different story. As far as your movie listed (Matrix), this has nothing to do with AS. AS is just pulling what's the content provider gives (I'm sure you know this ... I'm just reiterating for future readers of this post that may not). The biggest draw to using HEVC is the compression ration to the quality. Tests have allegedly shown that HEVC will compress (read smaller file size) 25% to 50% over AVC and still retain the quality. Many times when I use Handbrake to compress files, even though the input file is 1920 X 1080, it wants to resize it to 1920 X 800. When I change it back to the 1080, the picture goes across my entire screen, edge to edge. But even at 800, I still don't notice "black bars", just that the movie doesn't go edge to edge. This may be due to my TV and it's settings. Also, I view/play my movies via my laptop (external HDD) using VLC and showing on my TV (HDMI cable from laptop to TV). This may also have something to do with it.

So, far all the writing above, the take-away is AVC (version 4 and up) and HEVC will support the same resolutions, but HEVC will compress better at the same time having the same quality as the larger AVC file. Am I the sharpest pencil in the box ... naw, took me about 45 minutes of reading wiki between the two. If you're into that kinda stuff, it's really good reading actually.

I'd be more than happy to discuss further, but if you do, I think the topic should be moved to the general discussion forum. While the mods here are as a pretty tolerant bunch of folks as I've ran across in different "forums", to continue on (IMO) wouldn't be the right thing to do and they should (and rightfully so IMO) flag it as not being an "Anystream" issue and ask we move it.

Peace ... OB

 

[Pete]

Exactly. Or in short - it boils down to:

• mostly compatibility (though HEVC is supported by most equipment by now)
• the black bars: compression-wise they don't make a difference (black bars don't increase the size of the output file by much, maybe 1%)
  But in some situations the encoded black bars might prevent certain equipment from displaying the movie the best way it can (e.g. a wide screen projector)

 

[sycor]

Thanks guys. Yeah that's what I able to gather too but just wanted a bit of ELI5 to confirm. And I did a test run myself too, which I could/ should have done before, but I think this topic may also help other AS users in choosing options. The AVC file was about 800mb larger which doesn't sounds like much, but would add up over time.

 

[shades6057]

Just adding two cents. I did a couple movies both ways (AVC (H264) and HEVC (H265)) and noticed around an average of 33% reduction in size using HEVC (depends heavily on how much is going on in every scene of the movie, based off the algorithm it appears to use), and could not (I'm talking visually on several outputs, not any 'lab controlled' environment) distinguish a visible difference in quality. Also, I use Plex. The HEVC worked wonderfully on my FireTV sticks (I've got several over several gens). It worked wonderfully for my Nvidia shield (1st gen, in case it matters, fully updated). It worked great on my 2018 Samsung 4k TV as well (Direct app). It played perfectly on my Samsung Note Ultra (S20 version). So for the most part it was wonderful (Direct play for all formats mentioned). The problem comes down to when you can't play directly. The Transcode for any web player, (on windows 10 anyways) without hardware acceleration turned on in plex would peg my cpu at 100% for transcoding (HEVC Transcoding is SUPER cpu intensive, at least for an only IVY bridge 4th gen i7 Desktop CPU), whereas transcoding for a standard avc (H.264) was minimal (18%). IE I could do several simultaneous streams of AVC transcoding while only 1 (and hurting doing it) for HEVC. So, something to consider. All that said, I decided to still go with HEVC as it is compatible for all my streaming devices in the house, and for the windows 10 computers, I just use the desktop app for plex, instead of the web browser, as the space savings (especially with hard drive prices right now) are more beneficial to me.
Just a side note (More Plex notes, but may be valuable for those in similar test beds), I did turn on hardware acceleration on Plex as well and it reduced the load to around 20% on CPU and around 25-32% on GPU (with some occasional 100% spikes, all monitored using speccy and normal windows procmon). That said however, the hardware acceleration was buggy, and would intermittently freeze (nothing showing extra work in the process monitoring, just glitchy streaming, like it was buffering, and no network is not an issue). Also, with hardware acceleration turned on, playing the HEVC and trying to skip/pause/rewind, led to super long (20 seconds+ most the time) delays before it would start again. None of these issues were the case using just the CPU for transcoding (it hurt the cpu, but the person viewing the stream wouldn't notice), IE, if I jumped to the end of the movie, you'd get very fast update time for it to pick up and play (usually 1-3 second delay, which is better than I get from normal streaming providers, trying the same action). Anyhow, just figured I'd include some of my own testing for my uses.

 

[shades6057]

Just adding two cents. I did a couple movies both ways (AVC (H264) and HEVC (H265)) and noticed around an average of 33% reduction in size using HEVC (depends heavily on how much is going on in every scene of the movie, based off the algorithm it appears to use), and could not (I'm talking visually on several outputs, not any 'lab controlled' environment) distinguish a visible difference in quality. Also, I use Plex. The HEVC worked wonderfully on my FireTV sticks (I've got several over several gens). It worked wonderfully for my Nvidia shield (1st gen, in case it matters, fully updated). It worked great on my 2018 Samsung 4k TV as well (Direct app). It played perfectly on my Samsung Note Ultra (S20 version). So for the most part it was wonderful (Direct play for all formats mentioned). The problem comes down to when you can't play directly. The Transcode for any web player, (on windows 10 anyways) without hardware acceleration turned on in plex would peg my cpu at 100% for transcoding (HEVC Transcoding is SUPER cpu intensive, at least for an only IVY bridge 4th gen i7 Desktop CPU), whereas transcoding for a standard avc (H.264) was minimal (18%). IE I could do several simultaneous streams of AVC transcoding while only 1 (and hurting doing it) for HEVC. So, something to consider. All that said, I decided to still go with HEVC as it is compatible for all my streaming devices in the house, and for the windows 10 computers, I just use the desktop app for plex, instead of the web browser, as the space savings (especially with hard drive prices right now) are more beneficial to me.
Just a side note (More Plex notes, but may be valuable for those in similar test beds), I did turn on hardware acceleration on Plex as well and it reduced the load to around 20% on CPU and around 25-32% on GPU (with some occasional 100% spikes, all monitored using speccy and normal windows procmon). That said however, the hardware acceleration was buggy, and would intermittently freeze (nothing showing extra work in the process monitoring, just glitchy streaming, like it was buffering, and no network is not an issue). Also, with hardware acceleration turned on, playing the HEVC and trying to skip/pause/rewind, led to super long (20 seconds+ most the time) delays before it would start again. None of these issues were the case using just the CPU for transcoding (it hurt the cpu, but the person viewing the stream wouldn't notice), IE, if I jumped to the end of the movie, you'd get very fast update time for it to pick up and play (usually 1-3 second delay, which is better than I get from normal streaming providers, trying the same action). Anyhow, just figured I'd include some of my own testing for my uses.

Also, just for note, I'm specifically talking video transcoding. Some items still required audio transcoding, but this was very similar across both the AVC and HEVC formats that required it, and was minimal CPU impact (IE 2-5%, rough estimate). Just thought I'd include this note, in case it is of use. Audio transcoding is not (at least as far as my experience shows) a cpu intensive task for any transcoding I've seen.

 

[ranji]

Hello. is this option will work with particular provider or any am not able to choose the code only it display like text?!.

 

[wizisi2k]

Hello. is this option will work with particular provider or any am not able to choose the code only it display like text?!.

I have only seen it selectable on 4k vidoes with HBO Max. When it is selectable, the options are AVC, HEVC, HEVC Dolby Vision. When I saw that codec was selectable in patch notes, right away I knew it was meant for 4k content and selecting the HDR method, which right now is only doable on HBO Max.

 

[obertc]

@ranji, when you download from a provider using AS, you are at the mercy of whatever the provider gives. AS doesn't re-encode and change any of the resolutions/audio. Mostly what we were discussing above is when you take a file (movie for our purposes) and re-encode it. AS saves files in the *.mp4 format. Mp4 is only a "container" that has the movie, audio, subtitles (if any) in it. The codec (AVC or HVEC) we are discussing above is the heart of the video file that is within the container. You may have seen other "containers", such as MKV. This is much the same, but MKV has other attributes to it that doesn't bear with this discussion. AVC and MP4 are probably the most widely compatible codec and containers on the market. HEVC is starting to make quite a bit of inroads, but you need newer hardware (be it TV or BluRay Player) to be able to decipher the coding and show it proper. If you want to get into re-encoding videos and need a starting point, head over to videohelp.com and check out the "guides" selection at top.

When selecting your resolution/audio from the drop down boxes in AS, keep in mind that the larger the resolution AND the larger the audio selection will be a larger file on your hard drive. If you do this long enough, you'll need a big external hard drive. My video library is small compared to other at ~1400 titles, yet I've used 7.75TB of a 12TB HDD. This doesn't count TV shows which is on a different HDD. So yea, compression using HEVC helps tremendously. Hope this helps a little.

Peace ... OB

 

[obertc]

@wizisi2k, I didn't have HBO Max so wasn't aware they offered AVC vs HEVC ... very interesting. I thought ranji was just asking about our discussions on the virtues of AVC vs HEVC. Thanks for the input

Peace ... OB

 

[zanetti]

I have only seen it selectable on 4k vidoes with HBO Max. When it is selectable, the options are AVC, HEVC, HEVC Dolby Vision. When I saw that codec was selectable in patch notes, right away I knew it was meant for 4k content and selecting the HDR method, which right now is only doable on HBO Max.

i grabbed a bunch of older movies on HMAX yesterday and they all were available in both AVC and HEVC. none were available in 4k, and i grabbed a few more today and all had HEVC as an option. checked other providers, and only HMAX has selectable codec option enabled, on all content ive tried thus far. series exluded since theyre on pause here until redfox pixes missing subtitles issues.

 

[retiredqwest]

https://hd-report.com/list-of-hbo-max-4k-hdr-atmos-movies-shows/

 

[jbrisbin]

Every HBOMax movie I tried had an HEVC option. Comparing the file sizes, I saw about 33% expansion with the older AVC codec, but the image quality appeared (subjectively) a bit better with HEVC. To me the color gradations looked a be smoother with HEVC and the AVC appeared a bit over-saturated. Both were subtle effects and could be imaginary.
I really like the feature.

 

[tdfrgsn]

Hello. is this option will work with particular provider or any am not able to choose the code only it display like text?!.

Amazon has HEVC versions of all of their content as well although it's not selectable yet in Anystream, I would hope adding that would be the next step.

 

[twhiting9275]

I would hope adding that would be the next step.

100% agreed here

I was super happy to see this with HBO, because traditionally, h265/HEVC takes up quite a bit less space
Hopefully Amazon is on the way