ArcSoft TotalMedia (English Version) Availability

[davinleeds]

Only passthrough is unaffected.

 

[andy o]

Not publicly, no. In any case, I'm going to bitstream when I can and not worry about it. And when I'm doing LPCM I'll just match the sample rate. (Has to be done even when bitstreaming apparently). Hopefully the Xonar driver will get improved at some point.

I don't know if you can call it bitstreaming LPCM. Can you change the volume in the PC? The closest I'd think bitstreaming LPCM would be is WASAPI exclusive. WASAPI exclusive even lets you play a 5.1 DTS-encoded .wav while NOT bitstreaming the DTS itself, setting your audio output to stereo in Windows. It's weird, I never knew this could be possible, but it seems the receiver reads the stereo LPCM stream and decodes it just like bitstreamed DTS, metadata and all (I even get dialnorm to work in my Pioneer 01).

Even more so, if you switch number of channels in Vista from stereo, you'll get only noise. Foobar2000 has a volume control that works with WASAPI, but it's doing a pre-processing volume change before sending out the previously untouched LPCM to the mixer. If you set it to 100%, the DTS file still works. Set it to 99%, and you get noise. Probably you can use this DTS file to find out what TMT3 & Xonar are doing with LPCM, just let it play the .wav file and set your output to stereo, and match the sampling rate. I'll dig up the file in a minute.

 

[SamuriHL]

Only passthrough is unaffected.

No, this is my point. No one's hearing me here. When I have the Xonar set to HDMI Pass-Through, if I have an LPCM track on my Blu-ray, and I set the Xonar CP to 96, even if the track is 48, the receiver gets 96. I have verified this on more than one disc.

 

[SamuriHL]

I don't know if you can call it bitstreaming LPCM. Can you change the volume in the PC? The closest I'd think bitstreaming LPCM would be is WASAPI exclusive. WASAPI exclusive even lets you play a 5.1 DTS-encoded .wav while NOT bitstreaming the DTS itself, setting your audio output to stereo in Windows. It's weird, I never knew this could be possible, but it seems the receiver reads the stereo LPCM stream and decodes it just like bitstreamed DTS, metadata and all (I even get dialnorm to work in my Pioneer 01).

Even more so, if you switch number of channels in Vista from stereo, you'll get only noise. Foobar2000 has a volume control that works with WASAPI, but it's doing a pre-processing volume change before sending out the previously untouched LPCM to the mixer. If you set it to 100%, the DTS file still works. Set it to 99%, and you get noise. Probably you can use this DTS file to find out what TMT3 & Xonar are doing with LPCM, just let it play the .wav file and set your output to stereo, and match the sampling rate. I'll dig up the file in a minute.

Kill me now. What do you think HDMI Pass-Through should do? Should that not bitstream whatever the audio track is that's on the disc? I can tell you that reclock certainly thinks so because it doesn't activate in that configuration. At all. However, for some stupid reason, the Xonar driver seems to feel that when it gets an LPCM track even when it's set to bitstream it, it'll upsample it to 96 if that's what the CP is set to.

 

[andy o]

Here are the files. Choose the Surround DTS 5.1, of course.

 

[andy o]

Kill me now. What do you think HDMI Pass-Through should do? Should that not bitstream whatever the audio track is that's on the disc? I can tell you that reclock certainly thinks so because it doesn't activate in that configuration. At all. However, for some stupid reason, the Xonar driver seems to feel that when it gets an LPCM track even when it's set to bitstream it, it'll upsample it to 96 if that's what the CP is set to.

I'll have the opportunity to test all this tomorrow.

 

[SamuriHL]

I'll have the opportunity to test all this tomorrow.

Please do. Specifically check what the receiver is getting not what anything on the PC is reporting. Especially if bitstreaming. I think the situation is STUPID personally. ASUS should fix the damn driver.

 

[davinleeds]

No, this is my point. No one's hearing me here. When I have the Xonar set to HDMI Pass-Through, if I have an LPCM track on my Blu-ray, and I set the Xonar CP to 96, even if the track is 48, the receiver gets 96. I have verified this on more than one disc.

AFAIK there is no "passthrough" of LPCM, this is as James posted, and a statement by the ASUS Mod.I Never saw passthrough as True HD etc. That's why I am skeptical. Posted many times in AVS thread month or so ago. But in the grand scheme, it's only so important. Windows can affect the LPCM.

 

[andy o]

Yeah, if you can change volume either in Windows or in the control panel, that's an assurance that you're not getting bit-perfect passthrough. Whether that makes an audible difference is another matter.

This is what the DTS .wav file does for you. If you modify its LPCM stream even a bit, it will only play noise.

 

[SamuriHL]

AFAIK there is no "passthrough" of LPCM, this is as James posted, and a statement by the ASUS Mod.I Never saw passthrough as True HD etc. That's why I am skeptical. Posted many times in AVS thread month or so ago. But in the grand scheme, it's only so important. Windows can affect the LPCM.

What I don't get is if that's true, why does reclock not activate when I'm playing an LPCM track with HDMI pass-through but it DOES activate on the same track when I have TMT3 set to 7.1 (LPCM over HDMI)? This is why I'm having trouble with this nonsense. And if I have 7.1 set, TMT3 decides that even with the Xonar it's going to downsample it to 48/16. Yet it doesn't when it's set to HDMI pass-through.

 

[SamuriHL]

Yeah, if you can change volume either in Windows or in the control panel, that's an assurance that you're not getting bit-perfect passthrough. Whether that makes an audible difference is another matter.

This is what the DTS .wav file does for you. If you modify its LPCM stream even a bit, it will only play noise.

I'll have to play with this more tomorrow. It kind of bothers me.

 

[davinleeds]

This specific detail was for me some months ago also at ASUS forum, a stickler for me. Because If LPCM was equal to True and DTS MA why wasn't the Xonar treating them all alike. Why wasn't LPCM indicated with passthrough also. But now it's backburner for me. I'm not that knowledgeable in those finer details. For instance, the main track of Kill Bill is LPCM, what/which bits, keep it from being passthrough recognized?

 

[SamuriHL]

That's what I don't understand. Kill Bill V1 and V2, HellBoy, and some Disney movies all have LPCM tracks. When I try them with passthrough and the sample rate set to 48, it seems like it's genuinely passing it through and not messing with it. However, if the sample rate is set different than the track sample rate, then it seems to resample the audio which isn't exactly passthrough. If you have it set to 7.1 then it ALWAYS resamples it to 48/16 and reclock then becomes active. So I really don't get it.

 

[andy o]

Doesn't that just mean that the driver is bypassing Vista mixer? I don't exactly know what is it that calls Reclock into action, but I guess it's a directshow path... James should know more, but if so maybe you can't change the volume with Vista's control, but maybe you can with the Xonar cp?

 

[SamuriHL]

The Xonar CP allows you to lock the volume or change it. I have no idea if this affects LPCM when supposedly doing pass through but I can certainly try that in the morning.

 

[w1seman]

Except in the case of LPCM. I can tell you definitively that if you're bitstreaming LPCM and you have the Xonar CP set to 96 when the source is 48, my receiver reports 96. I suggest you check this yourself. You will find I'm correct.

Of course for LPCM thats true but LPCM is not bitstreaming in my eyes.
For LPCM you have to ensure that the settings in the Xonar panel are exactly matching the source files sample rate. Then you get bit perfect LPCM stream.

 

[SamuriHL]

Of course for LPCM thats true but LPCM is not bitstreaming in my eyes.
For LPCM you have to ensure that the settings in the Xonar panel are exactly matching the source files sample rate. Then you get bit perfect LPCM stream.

If the DISC is encoded with LPCM, and I have it set to pass through, what the hell else are you going to call it? That's not bitstreaming in your eyes?? WHAT?

 

[andy o]

Well, I would think that "bitstreaming" as we know it is passing through the stream untouched. If you can change anything, including volume, I don't think you could call it bitstreaming. The volume slider in foobar2000 in wasapi exclusive mode for instance, has to be set to 100%, anything other than that, the aforementioned DTS .wav file only plays noise. And Vista should be set to stereo (wasapi usually--but not always--takes care of auto channel switching). If you set it to anything other than stereo, again, noise.

By the way, I don't think I'll be receiving my card today. Friggin Fedex went north, only to have to go south again. Should be arriving today at my location, but too late. I don't know if I could just pick it up though.

 

[SamuriHL]

That sucks. Hopefully you'll be able to get it. I'm gone for most of next week so I won't be doing any testing. I'll try to get some testing done today but I have a lot of work to catch up on before I go. I'll try messing with the volume on an LPCM track shortly though.

 

[w1seman]

If the DISC is encoded with LPCM, and I have it set to pass through, what the hell else are you going to call it? That's not bitstreaming in your eyes?? WHAT?

I agree with you that in theory it should be handled like DTS-HD MA for example.
Every program that is playing audio sends an LPCM stream to the soundcard (except bitstreaming).
The soundcard normaly just makes the DA sampling.
I think if you play an LPCM track from TMT, the route is just the same. The exception however is, that you get it just passed through if the signal matches the settings in the audio card. If not it resamples it. Don't know if you understand what I try to explain but i think thats the reason the xonar control panel is used when plaing LPCM.