ArcSoft TotalMedia (English Version) Availability

[spcav]

No. Wasapi is just a programming interface available since Windows Vista. It works with every soundcard.

That's what i know.

So I don't undestand Andy's ''problem'' with the Xonar and ''no HDMI / ''plain'' speakers device''.

 

[James]

That's what i know.

So I don't undestand Andy's ''problem'' with the Xonar and ''no HDMI / ''plain'' speakers device''.

The problem is, that the Xonar resamples on its own without being asked. E.g., ReClock (and the currently developed SlyPlayer) delivers bit-exact 44k/16bit/2channels, the Xonar resamples to whatever it was set to, like 48k/24bit/6channels.
It ignores ReClock's attempts to set the speaker configuration.
Here are some test files to test "bit exactness":
http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html

If the playback chain is bit exact, a receiver/amp will decode the DTS .wav files.

 

[colindale15]

Which HDMI driver are you using? The realtek or the built in? The built in didn't work well for me when I was doing some tests the other night.

The Realtek ATI HDMI R218.

 

[andy o]

Yeah, just to be clear, I didn't mean WASAPI didn't work at all. I did say it worked, if you set the options manually for every different sampling rate/channels. For someone who wanted the practical side of bitstreaming, this card's giving that to me with bluray and TMT (ignoring for now the lack of DD+ bitstreaming), but taking it away from everything else.

andy_o, I'll be home tomorrow. I can answer a bunch of the issues you're having. Or, seemingly having. You really need to play in the Xonar control panel, *NOT* the vista control panel. Vista CP doesn't do jack with this card.

That's what I want to avoid. I don't wanna have to play with the CP every time I change type of sources! I know what you meant, I've tried every option (I have suggested in their feedback section they add an "automatic" to the input/output channels section) and I already was very familiar with the Xonar CP, their analog cards being my favorite. Got a Xonar DX and a U1 which use very similar panels.

I don't believe in most of the bitstreaming or the "high-res" stuff about audio so the reason I wanted bitstreaming was just to avoid having to decode bluray in the PC since TMT and PowerDVD always have trouble doing that. But I didn't want it at the cost of sacrificing convenience with pretty much ALL other programs!

andy o,

The Xonar bitstreams the audio to the AVR to have it decoded there. If you want to add additional "stuff", that's what you get. "Passthrough" to AVR is the only unaffected feed. Anything else is touched by windows audio mixer and "affected", even in convenience.

I don't have a problem at all with the card bitstreaming. I like it. But did it have to take away the convenience for LPCM, like auto switching? If it's related to PAP, could it just have it disabled for non-PAP content? I dunno. And all the other real HDMI solutions can do bit exact LPCM in WASAPI mode in various degrees, like spcav said (he said Reclock, but that's not the only app). Refer to the aforementioned DTS .wav files.

ReClock is the solution here.

But the problem remains at the decoders of PDVD / TMT (no MA support, downsampling etc).

More specifically, WASAPI, which Reclock gives you (but also other programs have their own WASAPI implementation). I agree fully, and the solution for me here seems to be Slyplayer.

It ignores ReClock's attempts to set the speaker configuration.

:bang: Is ReClock even attempting, or does it just not "see" the HDMI device?

 

[spcav]

The problem is, that the Xonar resamples on its own without being asked. E.g., ReClock (and the currently developed SlyPlayer) delivers bit-exact 44k/16bit/2channels, the Xonar resamples to whatever it was set to, like 48k/24bit/6channels.
It ignores ReClock's attempts to set the speaker configuration.
Here are some test files to test "bit exactness":
http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html

If the playback chain is bit exact, a receiver/amp will decode the DTS .wav files.

OK, so I am not missing something and as I thought, it is just a matter of Asus drivers / Reclock / WASAPI compatibility and not ‘’non HDMI device’’.

 

[spcav]

BTW, since I didn’t have the change to test anything else than bitstreaming (as this was my main goal originally when getting the Asus), may I suppose that since Reclock is not (currently?) working with Asus we cannot be sure if TMT 3 is decoding HD audio to LPCM without problems (such as downsampling etc)?

 

[SamuriHL]

The Realtek ATI HDMI R218.

The Cat drivers didn't seem to work well for me. I would stick with the realtek for now if it's working for you.

 

[SamuriHL]

That's what I want to avoid. I don't wanna have to play with the CP every time I change type of sources! I know what you meant, I've tried every option (I have suggested in their feedback section they add an "automatic" to the input/output channels section) and I already was very familiar with the Xonar CP, their analog cards being my favorite. Got a Xonar DX and a U1 which use very similar panels.

More specifically, WASAPI, which Reclock gives you (but also other programs have their own WASAPI implementation). I agree fully, and the solution for me here seems to be Slyplayer.

:bang: Is ReClock even attempting, or does it just not "see" the HDMI device?

All of what's said here I'll agree with. The Xonar drivers don't seem to want to leave the audio alone. I've discussed this fact with some people already. It ALWAYS seems to resample if the source and settings are different. I find this to be a massive problem, as well. So, uh, James...when is reclock going to hook the Xonar CP for us so we can have it automatically get set to the source? Just kidding...sort of.

 

[andy o]

OK, so I am not missing something and as I thought, it is just a matter of Asus drivers / Reclock / WASAPI compatibility and not ‘’non HDMI device’’.

It's not exactly that. WASAPI is compatible, only that it won't change channels/sampling rate for you automatically. For WASAPI to work, you'll have to do it manually on the Xonar CP. The main reason for the incompatibility with Reclock, is likely (James?) to be because of it not being "visible" as a regular HDMI device. This is also the reason why the "HDMI" option doesn't show in PowerDVD 8, and possibly affects other programs too. AC3 Filter, for instance, doesn't seem to want to bitstream through the Xonar HDMI (I'm almost sure, from a discussion at AVS, that you can still bitstream DD and DTS if you select "digital output (Xonar HDAV...)" as your default device, but that's just the SPDIF device through the HDMI connector, like Nvidia and Ati 3000 series do).

BTW, since I didn’t have the change to test anything else than bitstreaming (as this was my main goal originally when getting the Asus), may I suppose that since Reclock is not (currently?) working with Asus we cannot be sure if TMT 3 is decoding HD audio to LPCM without problems (such as downsampling etc)?

You can't, but first, they don't have a reason for downsampling anymore. Secondly, we already know that you can pass through untouched 2-channel 44.1kHz PCM. The only reason I can see for them to downsample would have to be just to mess with us cause we're ugly

 

[James]

:bang: Is ReClock even attempting, or does it just not "see" the HDMI device?

Little do I know... post a ReClock logfile and I'll tell you (I don't have this card and I'm not planning to get one soon).

EDIT:
On second thought... ReClock doesn't need to do anything specific, using WASAPI exclusive mode should set the channel configuration. You tried to check the "set matching speaker configuration" in ReClock config?

 

[andy o]

All of what's said here I'll agree with. The Xonar drivers don't seem to want to leave the audio alone. I've discussed this fact with some people already. It ALWAYS seems to resample if the source and settings are different. I find this to be a massive problem, as well. So, uh, James...when is reclock going to hook the Xonar CP for us so we can have it automatically get set to the source? Just kidding...sort of.

That would be cool, but it's this inherent incompatibility of the Xonar HDMI device that bothers me, that it doesn't want to be seen (or maybe it's a side-effect of PAP?) by programs, or even by Windows. Programs would need to work around this on an individual basis, if they even can.

 

[andy o]

Little do I know... post a ReClock logfile and I'll tell you (I don't have this card and I'm not planning to get one soon).

EDIT:
On second thought... ReClock doesn't need to do anything specific, using WASAPI exclusive mode should set the channel configuration. You tried to check the "set matching speaker configuration" in ReClock config?

Yep, I've tried with Reclock, Foobar2000 and JRiver Media Center 13 all in WASAPI exclusive mode. Actually, multichannel didn't seem to work with foobar, and with JRMC I wasn't getting sound... Setting the output device in JRMC to "digital output (Xonar HDAV...)", which is SPDIF through HDMI, set my receiver to 5.1, but was only doing sound from 4 speakers, and I believe the 2 fronts were just being duplicated, instead of the 4 being discrete. I think this is unrelated to the HDMI device itself though.

Reclock doesn't show an HDMI device in its WASAPI output options, only the two I posted in that screencap earlier, Speakers (Xonar HDAV...) and Digital output (Xonar HDAV...). One is the analog out, and the other is the SPDIF. Both can be routed to the HDMI output, but the Xonar driver sets the "analog" stream to whatever options are set in the Xonar CP. That's why I think it's because Reclock doesn't really "see" the HDMI device, that it can't control its auto switching either with WASAPI or with the auto switching option enabled (yeah, doesn't work either).

I have already disabled the device, but the card and driver are still installed. Using Ati for the moment, but I'll see if I can post a log later.

 

[w1seman]

Correct me if I'm wrong. I was told several time to stay on topic when posting.

This Thread is all about Arcsoft TotalMedia and NOT about foobar, WASAPI, JRiver or what other stuff else!?

So could someone of the mods please move all posts about non TMT-issues to a seperate thread? Thanks!

 

[SamuriHL]

That would be cool, but it's this inherent incompatibility of the Xonar HDMI device that bothers me, that it doesn't want to be seen (or maybe it's a side-effect of PAP?) by programs, or even by Windows. Programs would need to work around this on an individual basis, if they even can.

It's without a doubt a symptom of PAP. I have no doubt about it. The issue they don't seem to understand is that they shouldn't be doing PAP crap when it's not being asked for. If a program doesn't request a protected path, then it should just act like any other audio device. I suspect that either a bug or by design, it just doesn't play well with others due to the PAP implementation.

 

[SamuriHL]

Correct me if I'm wrong. I was told several time to stay on topic when posting.

This Thread is all about Arcsoft TotalMedia and NOT about foobar, WASAPI, JRiver or what other stuff else!?

So could someone of the mods please move all posts about non TMT-issues to a seperate thread? Thanks!

When I get around to it. I've had a stressful night.

 

[andy o]

Little do I know... post a ReClock logfile and I'll tell you (I don't have this card and I'm not planning to get one soon).

EDIT:
On second thought... ReClock doesn't need to do anything specific, using WASAPI exclusive mode should set the channel configuration. You tried to check the "set matching speaker configuration" in ReClock config?

James here's the Reclock logfile. WASAPI works, but I gotta set the Xonar CP manually. Look it up if you're curious, I don't really care anymore.