• AnyStream is having some DRM issues currently, Netflix is not available in HD for the time being.
    Situations like this will always happen with AnyStream: streaming providers are continuously improving their countermeasures while we try to catch up, it's an ongoing cat-and-mouse game. Please be patient and don't flood our support or forum with requests, we are working on it 24/7 to get it resolved. Thank you.

Where Do I Start??? HDCP Help!

C

cptmorgan

Member
Thread Starter
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
5
Likes
0
Please hear my out, this is going to be long....:)

I've been reading the forums that last several day, faqs, stickies etc....
I plan on buying AnyDVD HD within the next few days but I'm still not finding all of the answers that I'm looking for.
I curretnly rip DVDs and add them to Vista Media Center and watch them with a plug-in called Media Browser. This plug-in has come along way and soon they will have support for external players.

I want to venture into the Blu-Ray Arena but I'm being cautious at the same time to make sure that Blu-Rays will work in my environment

I now realize that there are several ways to rip a Blu-Ray movie

Blue-Ray to iso with protection
Blue-Ray to iso without protetion
Blue-Ray to folders
Blue-ray to folders extracting the movie only
etc... etc....
My concern is HDCP. I want to avoid HDCP at all costs because the way I watch movies isn't HDCP friendly. Let me explain

All of my HD cable boxes, HD DVR and Vista Media Center are centrally located in my utility room in my basement. Along with this equipment I have a HD Video Matrix Switch (router if you will). This allows me to route any of my 8 HD Component inputs (analog HD of course) to any of my 8 HD TV over Component. This nice thing about this is that I don't need extenders in this environment This system is also backed by a few RF remote controls.

What would be the best way for me to rip Blu-Ray movies since I want them centrally located on my Vista Media Center?

I definately want to keep the chapters in tact so I have some control when navigating a movie.

Should I convert the movies to MKV, keep them in ISO form???

None of my current hardware is HDCP compliant, and hopefully I can avoid it.

By the way, I have no intentions of ever Burning Blu-Ray Movies.

My current hardware:
Vista 32bit Ultimate
Abit IP35 Pro
Intel Q6600
4gb OCZ Ram
EVGA 9800 GTX
Plenty of HD Space

Thanks for your help!!!!!
 
HDCP is only required when the disk is AACS encrypted so after AnyDVD removed it you should be fine. If you want the entire BD online then rip to ISO with protection with AnyDVD then mount it with Virtual Clone Drive with AnyDVD running to removed protections. If you just want the main movie to save space take a look at the threads about backing up BDs. You still end up with an ISO but it has no protections.

Media Center does not play BD, TMT has a plugin of sorts that has a menu item in MC that when you click it starts TMT. But you have to mount the ISO images so that could be an issue to automate. I see many people talk about my movies but I do not use anything like that so not much help there. I am not sure about MKV and MC integration either not sure if you can keep the HD audio or chapters either. Plus you will spend a lot of time converting them. You could wait for CloneBD but I am not sure if that will be an option or not.
 
HDCP is not an issue if you display HD using analog (rgb/vga/component) equipment - only with DVI or HDMI. MPAA have announced they will not enforce the ICT "downrezzing" HD over analog until at least 2012.
 
Also Cyberlink is suppose to get linked to Windows 7 Media Player for BD playback
 
Once AnyDVD rips the movies, they no longer need HDCP. But the problem is that you'll now have to make ISOs for demux/mux to .ts files to associate to Media Center. There's many ways to do the latter but a quite steep learning curve to get things quite right. Main problem is that BD is just a container type system and different movies have different types of codecs and formats to working. In other words, it's hard to standardize.

Making the movies .mkv will strip the chapters and titles. Keeping the movies as ISOs will keep all the features intact but you'll have to find a way to mount the ISOs via remote control or RDS to your control PC with a wirelss laptop.
 
nesNYC said:
Once AnyDVD rips the movies, they no longer need HDCP. But the problem is that you'll now have to make ISOs for demux/mux to .ts files to associate to Media Center. There's many ways to do the latter but a quite steep learning curve to get things quite right. Main problem is that BD is just a container type system and different movies have different types of codecs and formats to working. In other words, it's hard to standardize.
Click to expand...

Well, it sounds like I'm either goint to rip to iso (without protection) or rip to .ts My media browser plugin is getting more sophisticated within media center. In the next release they plan to have the ability to launch either TMT or Cyber within Media Center then revert back to media center when finished with the movie.

Since a lot a work will go into this, I want to make this as future proof as possible. What would be the downside of ripping Blue-ray to iso (without protection) if any? Sounds like this may be the best way to go.

What would be the argument to leave the protection in?

Thanks
 
Again, once the BluRay is ripped, the protection comes off. Even if you make it an ISO, it no longer has any copy protection because the moment the digits go on your hard drive, the copy protection AND HDCP HAS to come off to do that.

The only way protection can left on the movie is to leave it in the disk. Any move of the files out of the disk disabled protection.

cptmorgan said:
What would be the argument to leave the protection in?

Thanks
Click to expand...
 
I don't like this. PowerDVD screwed up when they disabled playing movies from the hard drive. Hope they don't do anything to block playing HD files from the harddrive. Windows 7 (beta at least) already plays mpeg2 and VC1 files natively. The only thing that's missing is the audio codecs for dd+ and dts.

Now comes Cyberlink to "integrate" things. Hope at least the playback modes limit themsleves to the disk and leave the native support intact.

sparkym5 said:
Maybe here http://msmvps.com/blogs/chrisl/archive/2009/01/08/1659436.aspx
Click to expand...
 
nesNYC said:
Again, once the BluRay is ripped, the protection comes off. Even if you make it an ISO, it no longer has any copy protection because the moment the digits go on your hard drive, the copy protection AND HDCP HAS to come off to do that.

The only way protection can left on the movie is to leave it in the disk. Any move of the files out of the disk disabled protection.
Click to expand...


NesNYC,

Thanks for the help so far. My main concern are these comments on this very subject from the FAQ. Please read below, my concern is that If I take the protection out, will future players disable playing of non protected content? thanks again

I found the below comments from this link
http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=14989


By default, it is unchecked. When the ISO is created, all protection is removed in the resulting ISO. AACS, BD+, etc are all removed during ISO creation. A clean image that is stripped of protection that can be mounted, burned, whatever. MOST PEOPLE WILL WANT TO USE THE RIP FEATURE THIS WAY!! If you are planning on burning your images, this is the option you want to use. Update: Well, not so fast. It seems that if you are mounting unprotected ISOs on a virtual drive and AnyDVD is enabled for that drive, depending on what options you selected you could run into issues. My new recommendation for unprotected ISO users is simply to disable AnyDVD for the virtual drive. In the AnyDVD settings, under Drives/selections uncheck the virtual drive you're using to mount your unprotected images. I truly believe this issue is yet another point in favor of creating protected images but that's a personal preference.

Now, when you enable the checkbox, it disables all protection removal in AnyDVD for that image. That means it creates an image bit for bit from the disc with ALL protection in tact. AACS, BD+, etc, are all in the image. I want to make this clear so that support does not get a lot of calls on this...this feature should NOT be used unless you KNOW the consequences! It seems like quite a hassle, right? Why would you want to use this feature? I use protected images because they are as close to the original as you can get. They're literally 1:1 copies, warts and all. The major benefit is if a bug crops up in AnyDVD that causes a (sorry, Peer) glitch to show up, those who ripped with protection removal enabled will need to rerip the disc with a fixed version of AnyDVD. Those who keep protection only have to remount the protected image with AnyDVD. This is a great time saver.
 
That post is BS. As long as the image or end .ts file plays good on your system, you need not do anything else.

Now, if you want the menus and all features then you'll be producing an iso file and mount with virtual drive software (have you ever done that before?) and you'll then disable AnyDVD from mounting that drive, that's what the guy is talking about.

Now the glitches he's talking about are infrequent but again, if the file played right the first time and the "glitch" not notciable, why would you want to rip again and go through the same process? Again, if it plays right once, it will play right forever.

As to your worry about players disabling non-protected HD files, that all depends on the software player you use to play the file. But the HD format is simply mpeg2 or VC1 and there are a lot of players that will play that format and are "futrue" proof. In fact, I see that more and more players will begin to enable playing these files natively. Windows 7 does this already so that's a great sign more will follow.

Think of it back to the early MP3 days. Win98 didn't support that and only supported WAV and AIFF. XP and beyond supported MP3 natively and the same can be said with HD codecs as the prices drop and more movies go to HD. I doubt any company will intentionally block playing of these files. They would be shooting themslevs in the foot.

Also, there are plenty of open source solutions for playing HD files. No way are commercial player going to limit themsleves like this. You have many options.

cptmorgan said:
NesNYC,

will future players disable playing of non protected content?
Click to expand...
 
To disable playing of non protected content would be truly ignorant. I mean some camcorders create files very much like a BD. That would mean they could not play them. Or if you created a BD from your camcorder files you could not play it.

The only company that I would worry about doing that would be Cyberlink because they are truly ignorant.
 
nesNYC said:
That post is BS. As long as the image or end .ts file plays good on your system, you need not do anything else.

Now, if you want the menus and all features then you'll be producing an iso file and mount with virtual drive software (have you ever done that before?) and you'll then disable AnyDVD from mounting that drive, that's what the guy is talking about.

Now the glitches he's talking about are infrequent but again, if the file played right the first time and the "glitch" not notciable, why would you want to rip again and go through the same process? Again, if it plays right once, it will play right forever.
Click to expand...

I take issue you with saying my post is BS. It most definitely is not. I've been around quite a very long time and do know what I'm talking about. You may not remember the early days of when BD+ was first supported by AnyDVD, but I do. There were problems. And those that ripped ISOs with the protection removed had glitches and needed to re-rip the image. Unless you watch every single frame of your movie, you may not know that the glitches exist. Spot checking is great and all but isn't guaranteed to show glitches that may exist in your rip. Those who removed the AACS from their BD+ rips and were waiting for an updated AnyDVD version to then remove the BD+ later were sadly disappointed when they found out that the BD+ could only be ripped when AACS was intact on the image. The most recent stuff with BD Live and region removal modifying jars on the unprotected image is another reason I like my images clean and protected. I prefer to let AnyDVD do the work on my images. That way I can turn things on and off at will. With an unprotected image, you're at the mercy of whatever settings you used to rip the disc with. Ripped it with region code removal turned on and later found out there was a glitch that causes issues? Re-rip. All I do is update AnyDVD and mount my image.

Personally I don't care what method people use. If they want to reprocess the movie's streams into a new movie, then all protections and other crap will be removed. Pray there's no bugs in AnyDVD at the time. :) Unless you watch every second of the movie you won't really know for sure. The BD+ glitches that showed up after the first round of BD+ removal weren't obvious at first, either, but, they were there and fixed rather quickly in a new version of AnyDVD. You may disagree with my preferred method of ripping with protection, but, to call my post BS is a bit much.
 
P.S. My post also never infers that playing unprotected content is an issue or that the players were somehow going to disable it. I just caution people that they take the chance of having to rerip if a problem is found.
 
damnskippy said:
To disable playing of non protected content would be truly ignorant. I mean some camcorders create files very much like a BD. That would mean they could not play them. Or if you created a BD from your camcorder files you could not play it.

The only company that I would worry about doing that would be Cyberlink because they are truly ignorant.
Click to expand...

You mean like the crap they pulled with their last version disabling playback when the slysoft backup folder was found? ;)
 
SamuriHL said:
If they want to reprocess the movie's streams into a new movie, then all protections and other crap will be removed. Pray there's no bugs in AnyDVD at the time. :) Unless you watch every second of the movie you won't really know for sure. The BD+ glitches that showed up after the first round of BD+ removal weren't obvious at first, either, but, they were there and fixed rather quickly in a new version of AnyDVD. You may disagree with my preferred method of ripping with protection, but, to call my post BS is a bit much.
Click to expand...

SamuriHL,

If I rip to iso with protection intact would this be OK for my non HDCP environment, please review my very first post on this thread. From what I understand, as long as I mount with Virtual Clone drive & Anydvd HD is running, HDCP protection will be removed, is this correct? From a previous post the user mentioned that down rezzing will not be enforced until 2012. I want to avoid HDCP enforcement now and when I switch over to Windows 7.

I just don't want to get caught going backwards and having to re-rip. I would imagine that having the 1:1 ISO with protection intact may be safter since I could modify or remove protection from this ISO with the evolution of future ripping/editing software. Again, I have no problem ripping with protection, I'm just trying to dodge the HDCP Bullet :)

Thanks
 
cptmorgan said:
SamuriHL,

If I rip to iso with protection intact would this be OK for my non HDCP environment, please review my very first post on this thread. From what I understand, as long as I mount with Virtual Clone drive & Anydvd HD is running, HDCP protection will be removed, is this correct? From a previous post the user mentioned that down rezzing will not be enforced until 2012. I want to avoid HDCP enforcement now and when I switch over to Windows 7.

I just don't want to get caught going backwards and having to re-rip. I would imagine that having the 1:1 ISO with protection intact may be safter since I could modify or remove protection from this ISO with the evolution of future ripping/editing software. Again, I have no problem ripping with protection, I'm just trying to dodge the HDCP Bullet :)

Thanks
Click to expand...
Right, ok, so, if you mount a protected image with AnyDVD enabled, the protection is then removed on the fly from that mounted image. The requirement here is that AnyDVD MUST be running when mounting the protected image. At that point it won't have AACS encryption anymore and the HDCP requirement is removed. (A lot of people misunderstand what HDCP is in the first place, and also how it works.) HDCP is enforced by the player when it detects AACS protected content. When AACS is detected, the player will only play the content when all the conditions for HDCP are met. When AACS is not present, HDCP is not required and can be played on "non-compliant" equipment. People often think there's some magical HDCP "thing" that has to be removed and that's not the case. Removing AACS is enough. So, the long answer to your question is that yes, if you remove the protection either by ripping an unprotected ISO or by using a protected ISO with AnyDVD enabled for that virtual drive, HDCP is not enforced.

Now, that does not prevent the player software from being jack@$$ like in nature. :D What I mean by this is PowerDVD is notorious for refusing to play content even on supposed HDCP compliant hardware if the drivers are wrong, the stars aren't aligned, or it just plain doesn't feel like it. LOL :) I'm exaggerating...slightly. The point is, HDCP is only one of several checks the players perform. That one is protection. Others prevent what the player considers to be old and antiquated hardware from attempting to play content. (Thank you, oh wonderful wizards of Cyberlink, for imparting your wisdom on what should and should not be attempted. Morons)

Anyway, I hope that helps. You should be able to do what you want with protected images and AnyDVD.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top