Two new 4k discs unable to make movie only ISO

[Tanquen]

Out of the last ten of so discs, Hugo and Justice League Warworld both seem to be ok until you go to watch them and they just stop after a few minute's.

At first I thought it was just a glitch but I have tried Justice League Warworld a few more times with no luck. Each time the ISO file is a few hundred MB (341 MB (357,892,096 bytes) but the processing time seems normal and there are no messages. The file is no longer increasing in size but the CloneBD screen shows a changing current transfer rate.

The transfer rate is always this slow. Not sure why. I can copy the full ISO to the NAS in about two minutes.

 

[DeepSpace]

Did you use AnyDVD to create the .iso? If so, can you please create and upload a logfile from both original discs?

 

[cartman0208]

View attachment 74095

Now that's a fine transfer rate

 

[coopervid]

Out of the last ten of so discs, Hugo and Justice League Warworld both seem to be ok until you go to watch them and they just stop after a few minute's.

At first I thought it was just a glitch but I have tried Justice League Warworld a few more times with no luck. Each time the ISO file is a few hundred MB (341 MB (357,892,096 bytes) but the processing time seems normal and there are no messages. The file is no longer increasing in size but the CloneBD screen shows a changing current transfer rate.

The transfer rate is always this slow. Not sure why. I can copy the full ISO to the NAS in about two minutes.
View attachment 74095

View attachment 74093

Are you serious???????? The limitation is always how fast it can be read from a disc. So WTH do you expect???

 

[tectpro]

Out of the last ten of so discs, Hugo and Justice League Warworld both seem to be ok until you go to watch them and they just stop after a few minute's.

At first I thought it was just a glitch but I have tried Justice League Warworld a few more times with no luck. Each time the ISO file is a few hundred MB (341 MB (357,892,096 bytes) but the processing time seems normal and there are no messages. The file is no longer increasing in size but the CloneBD screen shows a changing current transfer rate.

The transfer rate is always this slow. Not sure why. I can copy the full ISO to the NAS in about two minutes.
View attachment 74095

View attachment 74093

Where you get the 341MB?

In the CloneBD log it shows:

00:11:23.424 | [03:16:20.674] - Total size of generated files: 95770981288 bytes

Thats roughly 95GB.

The transferrate you have is 1.02GB/s
Thats roughly 1000 Megabyte per second.
So 95 GB would need roughly 95 seconds to transfer, to wherever its transferred too.


As @coopervid mentioned ripping from disc to ISO is always slower.
Seems its roughly 80000 kB/s.

As per CloneBD log file it seems it took roughly 32 minutes to copy the disc to ISO.

FYI:

For BD (Blu-ray Disc): The base speed (1x) for a Blu-ray disc is roughly 4.5 MB/s.
Now, we can calculate the speeds:


12x × 4.5 MB/s = 54 MB/s


12x = 54 MB/s
16x = 72 MB/s

In comparison for the drive to reach 1GB/s it would need to be a 228x BD drive.

 

[Tanquen]

Where you get the 341MB?

As I said, from the resulting ISO file, the one that then only plays a few minutes.

In the CloneBD log it shows:

I did say it all looks ok but you get a small file at the end. The full ISO works fine. Even the "CloneBD screen shows a changing current transfer rate." but after a time it's no longer writing to the file.

As @coopervid mentioned ripping from disc to ISO is always slower.
Seems its roughly 80000 kB/s.

Sorry, I did not directly mention that I'm working with a full ISO but that is what the simple file transfer/copy was about. Also, at time of the transfer isn't it copying from a temp folder or file? It's totally a side issue but after moving from SATA HDs at like 200MB a second to SSDs at like 5000MB a second the CloneBD processing and latter transfer don't really seem to scale.

I thought I was doing good with details and screen caps and a log file but I just can't win.

 

[Tanquen]

Now that's a fine transfer rate

It's totally nice for copying large VMs and UHD ISOs between the NAS and other PCs in the house on the 10GB network. Great for PC backups too

 

[whatever_gong82]

I don't have Hugo, but I do have Justice League: Warworld, and I copied it without incident.

I did use MakeMKV to make an MKV of the movie, and I've played it without interruption or any issues.

If you'd like to, I can re-rip the movie and use CloneBD to make an ISO or an MKV of the movie and play it with PowerDVD 22 Ultra and see what happens.

 

[Tanquen]

I don't have Hugo, but I do have Justice League: Warworld, and I copied it without incident.

I did use MakeMKV to make an MKV of the movie, and I've played it without interruption or any issues.

If you'd like to, I can re-rip the movie and use CloneBD to make an ISO or an MKV of the movie and play it with PowerDVD 22 Ultra and see what happens.

That could be a helpful sanity check. My memory is really bad but I don't think I've seen this happen before and I've done a number of 4K UHD discs recently and these are the only two that have this issue.

The full ISO rip works as it should and I can watch the entire movie but when I use CloneBD to make a movie only ISO with no conversion of any kind from the full ISO rip, it ends up with a small, 350 or so megabyte file. Even though it looks like the transfer process is continuing with changing transfer speeds even, to this file the whole time, it stops after a certain point.

You also have to remember to change the compression or resulting size slider. It used to remember or stay in the full position with no compression, but at some point this changed and now I must set it to full every time I want to make a full ISO with no extra compression.

To test things the same way I've done, you'll want to make a full ISO rip first with the option to remove the protection. That may be the cause of the issue but I'm not sure why on just these two discs currently. You don't even need to play the ISO, you'll know by the small file size.

Justice League Warworld has smaller and easier to test anyway. It took about 4 minutes for to process the title and then another 6 minutes to transfer it or create the ISO file.

It's not the end of the world as I have the full ISO to play, but I just don't like dealing with all the menus and such. I'd rather just have the movie start. But I think I'm one of the very few people doing that and I think there's even fewer people using discs anymore. Making full ISOs with no transcoding. I also have audio dropouts in a small number of titles over a number of years and I have a different thread posted and I gave them information but they never got back to me.

 

[DeepSpace]

but I just don't like dealing with all the menus and such

When you play a disc with VLC, you have a checkbox to not show any menus and go directly to the movie. Not sure if that works on other players as well.

 

[Tanquen]

When you play a disc with VLC, you have a checkbox to not show any menus and go directly to the movie. Not sure if that works on other players as well.

Not sure where things are currently but I went down this route a few years ago now, so that I'd have Dolby Vision on the few discs that support it. I used to use PowerDVD but don't anymore as I've got a Oppo player and it can play the ISO files with Dolby Atmos and Dolby Vision. I'm not sure but I think that is still the only media player that can play an ISO file with Dolby Vision? That way I don't have to have a computer running. I just have the media player through the AVR browsing and playing files off the NAS.

 

[tectpro]

@Tanquen

I saw in the logfile that you directly encode/copy to destination : //192.168.71.192/.Video/Hugo.ISO

Can you check if you encounter the same issue when you create the ISO on your local hard drive / SSD?

I am asking because it's possible that there was an issue during the writing process, resulting in a smaller file being created even though the log indicates a larger size. It's important to consider that the log might show the intended size, but there could be various reasons why the actual file size is significantly smaller, such as network interruptions, storage limitations, or other technical issues.

Since the destination path appears to be a network location (NAS, SAN, etc.), it's possible that there were network-related issues that prevented the file from being fully written or transferred correctly.

 

[Tanquen]

Something is up with Windows, the NAS or the network, I'm not sure. I did some more testing this morning and tried Hugo and Warworld to the NAS and it worked fine. Just like the around 10 or so other titles in the last month or so. It's very strange because I tried Hugo on a different day and Warworld on a different day multiple times with the same outcome of the same 350 megabyte file size. I don't understand how it was so consistently having an issue with those two titles until this morning.

All other file copying to the NAS seems to be okay. I moved the full ISOs to the NAS so I could watch them instead and that worked fine. I was surprised to learn that at least some of the Window file copies don't do any verification once the file starts writing and they just kind of assume everything went okay.

For the last few months, Windows 11 has had a file copy speed issue limiting file transfers to 400 to 500 megabytes a second. But that was supposedly fixed in the last update. And as far as the speed goes, it seems to be working correctly again. I don't know what's going on.

The network is small and really nothing much going on 99% of the time.

I don't think the Synology NAS likes having the older network file share/security enabled, but the Oppo won't support the newer versions. Not sure if that has anything to do with anything.

 

[DQ]

Something is up with Windows, the NAS or the network, I'm not sure. I did some more testing this morning and tried Hugo and Warworld to the NAS and it worked fine. Just like the around 10 or so other titles in the last month or so. It's very strange because I tried Hugo on a different day and Warworld on a different day multiple times with the same outcome of the same 350 megabyte file size. I don't understand how it was so consistently having an issue with those two titles until this morning.

All other file copying to the NAS seems to be okay. I moved the full ISOs to the NAS so I could watch them instead and that worked fine. I was surprised to learn that at least some of the Window file copies don't do any verification once the file starts writing and they just kind of assume everything went okay.

For the last few months, Windows 11 has had a file copy speed issue limiting file transfers to 400 to 500 megabytes a second. But that was supposedly fixed in the last update. And as far as the speed goes, it seems to be working correctly again. I don't know what's going on.

The network is small and really nothing much going on 99% of the time.

I don't think the Synology NAS likes having the older network file share/security enabled, but the Oppo won't support the newer versions. Not sure if that has anything to do with anything.

I am trying to read all the posts and I am not sure I fully get the whole picture but are you trying to RIP/transcode to a network location? I can easily see where that would be problematic. I have seen folks with issues with that before. It's always far more reliable to rip/transcode to local then copy to remote.

Am I correct about what you are doing or have I missed the mark?

 

[cartman0208]

Do you by chance have full disk/quota set on the NAS and you just hit the wall?
I would also go with tectpro and DQ and have the target set to local and then move it to the NAS.

 

[Tanquen]

I am trying to read all the posts and I am not sure I fully get the whole picture but are you trying to RIP/transcode to a network location? I can easily see where that would be problematic. I have seen folks with issues with that before. It's always far more reliable to rip/transcode to local then copy to remote.

Am I correct about what you are doing or have I missed the mark?

I do the full ISO rip locally first then back that up to the NAS, then create the movie only ISO from the local full ISO. Not really attempting to do any transcoding just make a movie only a ISO without any recompression or transcoding. It's already done most of the work locally in the temp folder and then it's writing the finished ISO file.

Obviously there's something going on, but I wouldn't think it would matter that the destination is a NAS device with nothing else going on in the NAS or the network, both are capable of sustained gigabyte per second transfers. Creating the file locally first could be a workaround but it just seems really odd that writing the ISO initially through the application would be all that different than a moment later copying it through file explorer. It is a lot slower through the app when it says it's creating the ISO so maybe it is still doing some kind of processing at that time? With it being so much slower during the initial file creating process in the app, it seems like it should be even less trouble to write to network attached storage. It just seemed really odd that these two titles out of how many I've done both were having the issue repeatedly with the same small file size and then not.

Do you by chance have full disk/quota set on the NAS and you just hit the wall?

I'm not sure what that would be? Like you have an artificial limit set on the NAS telling it to stop letting data be written before the shared partition or folder is full? I just have a generic default setup and not doing anything fancy. Like I said, I was copying the full ISO over just fine,, even while this issue was happening. Then later both of them worked just like all the others I'd done in the last month or two. In The few years that I've had this particular NAS I've done maybe 50 titles. The only thing that's changed are Windows and NAS updates. Maybe one of the fiber transceivers is going bad on one of the switches. In my little setup with nothing much going on, it just seems odd that I need to use something like xcopy or whatever to make sure that a simple network file copy actually finishes successfully or to know when it doesn't.

 

[DQ]

I do the full ISO rip locally first then back that up to the NAS, then create the movie only ISO from the local full ISO. Not really attempting to do any transcoding just make a movie only a ISO without any recompression or transcoding. It's already done most of the work locally in the temp folder and then it's writing the finished ISO file.

Obviously there's something going on, but I wouldn't think it would matter that the destination is a NAS device with nothing else going on in the NAS or the network, both are capable of sustained gigabyte per second transfers. Creating the file locally first could be a workaround but it just seems really odd that writing the ISO initially through the application would be all that different than a moment later copying it through file explorer. It is a lot slower through the app when it says it's creating the ISO so maybe it is still doing some kind of processing at that time? With it being so much slower during the initial file creating process in the app, it seems like it should be even less trouble to write to network attached storage. It just seemed really odd that these two titles out of how many I've done both were having the issue repeatedly with the same small file size and then not.

I'm not sure what that would be? Like you have an artificial limit set on the NAS telling it to stop letting data be written before the shared partition or folder is full? I just have a generic default setup and not doing anything fancy. Like I said, I was copying the full ISO over just fine,, even while this issue was happening. Then later both of them worked just like all the others I'd done in the last month or two. In The few years that I've had this particular NAS I've done maybe 50 titles. The only thing that's changed are Windows and NAS updates. Maybe one of the fiber transceivers is going bad on one of the switches. In my little setup with nothing much going on, it just seems odd that I need to use something like xcopy or whatever to make sure that a simple network file copy actually finishes successfully or to know when it doesn't.

So my point it is. Through this multi-stage process you are going through, the ONLY time you should be writing to your NAS is to copy over the finished product via explorer. If you are trying to do anything through an app with the NAS as the destination this is well known to have issues. When an app is processing a file it is not simply copying it so you cannot compare that function to a file copy and it has nothing to do with how fast your network is.

 

[Tanquen]

So my point it is. Through this multi-stage process you are going through, the ONLY time you should be writing to your NAS is to copy over the finished product via explorer. If you are trying to do anything through an app with the NAS as the destination this is well known to have issues. When an app is processing a file it is not simply copying it so you cannot compare that function to a file copy and it has nothing to do with how fast your network is.

It's not been a problem before and it's just writing the file. It's not reading information from the file and then doing something to it and then writing information back to the file. It's just creating the ISO but yes that is different than a simple file copy from file explorer. I understand what you're saying but it seems kind of limiting and not something I had heard before. I just never had any issues opening and editing files from a NAS at home or at work. I think it's pretty important how fast and stable the network is. It's not like I'm going through a slow internet connection and maybe a couple of VPNs that are maybe coming in and out of connectivity. It may be more prone to issues or is another point of failure but it doesn't seem reasonable to say that you must do everything locally and only copy completed files to the NAS then copy them back over to make changes and then put them back. I've not done tons of research on it, but I've read discussions about audio and video editing form a NAS and they've only talked about speed being the issue, nothing about incomplete files or data corruption. With 10 gigabit networking being more accessible, there's more folks trying this even though it's still slower than a local SSD. I've even run some VMs from the NAS without issues other than speed. Like making an image of my computer for backup. I'm sure it's not doing the same kind of processing, but it's going through in some cases, open files and making copies of those files and then putting them into a virtual disk file on the NAS.

 

[DQ]

It's not been a problem before and it's just writing the file. It's not reading information from the file and then doing something to it and then writing information back to the file. It's just creating the ISO but yes that is different than a simple file copy from file explorer. I understand what you're saying but it seems kind of limiting and not something I had heard before. I just never had any issues opening and editing files from a NAS at home or at work. I think it's pretty important how fast and stable the network is. It's not like I'm going through a slow internet connection and maybe a couple of VPNs that are maybe coming in and out of connectivity. It may be more prone to issues or is another point of failure but it doesn't seem reasonable to say that you must do everything locally and only copy completed files to the NAS then copy them back over to make changes and then put them back. I've not done tons of research on it, but I've read discussions about audio and video editing form a NAS and they've only talked about speed being the issue, nothing about incomplete files or data corruption. With 10 gigabit networking being more accessible, there's more folks trying this even though it's still slower than a local SSD. I've even run some VMs from the NAS without issues other than speed. Like making an image of my computer for backup. I'm sure it's not doing the same kind of processing, but it's going through in some cases, open files and making copies of those files and then putting them into a virtual disk file on the NAS.

I have been in IT a long time and I have been doing this media stuff for several years as well as reading this forum. You can say 10GB as many times as you wish, you can research any thing you want. What I am telling you is based on my experience and what others have posted their has traditionally been issues writing to anything that is not local when an app is processing a file. Many more things are functionally at play in that scenario vs. a simple file copy via SMB. Again, it has nothing to do with speed (assuming it is sufficient) and probably not anything to do with a NAS (although that does complicate it some) it's just the fact it is not local.

You have come here with an issue. Myself and others are trying to help you based on our experience and knowledge. If you choose not to believe what we are stating then that is up to you. My suggestion is to just try what is giving you issues locally and see if it works. If it does, problem solved. If not, we go from there.

 

[Tanquen]

That's okay but that's not all I was saying. Just 10 GB, 10 GB. I still think speed is important and worth noting. Over the years I've seen numerous things fail because the transfer speed is too slow or even worse inconsistent.

Like you said there's more going on there. And I gave reasons not just saying you're wrong and I don't believe you. I've got a lot of experience as well. I just came here looking for an answer not to get hammered about anything silly. The main concern was that there was something wrong with the original ISO or perhaps the application and I don't think that's the issue anymore. I think there's something going on in Windows or the network or the NAS.

Not trying to upset you or say you're dumb or anything I just don't think it's just, you never editor create files on a NAS is all I was saying. As I posted earlier, it's working again and worked many times before and I hadn't seen the problem before. With my experiences in IT and working with computers for like 40 years, it's just not something that's come up. Not been in huge company supporting thousands of people but we have network attached storage and people edit word docs and CAD files etc. I'm not an expert in anything really, but I just didn't see why that would be such a big problem and that creating files or editing files on a NAS is just a known and always no no. There are a number of examples of folks editing files off of their NAS. It's just a speed issue that they talk about had never seen anything about files not showing up sometimes or being incomplete randomly just because they're using network attached storage.

Again, I was able to successfully copy these two titles in question and I'll just keep an eye on it. I'm just going to keep using the NAS like I always have but now I need to check the file size after it says it's done. It's not a big deal in the scenario. I'm more concerned that there's some random issue in Windows or the network or the NAS.