Suggestions for Handling Region Removal

[jmone]

As I buy disks from both Reg A and B, the ability to remove region code is terrific. I set AnyDVD HD to Remove Region & Auto, hoping for Set and Forget!

As I understand it AnyDVD HD will pop up a Dialg asking for user input if it can not determin the Disc Regions the FIRST time.

While I'm OK with this it is not family friendly given we run our HTPC via a RC and you have to pull out the keyboard to select an option and the majority of time a simple "none" will do. Try explaining regions etc to this lot!

Suggestion 1: Can "Auto" be "Auto + None" if region is not determined

Suggestion 2: Can I reset the stored region info for just one disk if I (they) get it wrong the first time?

Ultimate Suggestion: I'm not sure why AnyDVD HD even needs to try to determine a region from reading the disc. Since you have to ID the disc to remove AACS could you not keep the region information as part of your database then just apply it as required?

Suggestion 4: It's all fine as it is and tell me to sod off!

Thanks
Nathan

 

[jmone]

HS Musical 2 - Aus (BD Live Prob)

This Disc will not play (just a black screen, no audio) as it tries to load the main menu if "Disable BD-Live" is ON (plays fine without AnyDVD HD Running or with "Disable BD-Live" off and regardless of the Remove Region Settings selected).

Log file attached.

Thanks
Nathan

PS - I have a mix of region discs so I need to leave Remove Region checked (and hence Disable BD-Live is also checked)

 

[jmone]

Bump...I still like the idea of:

Ultimate Suggestion: I'm not sure why AnyDVD HD even needs to try to determine a region from reading the disc. Since you have to ID the disc to remove AACS could you not keep the region information as part of your database then just apply it as required?

 

[Adbear]

Do you have 'allow internet access' ticked in the setting menu on TMT? If not try ticking it then change 'Certification setting to 'Always ask'

 

[jmone]

Do you have 'allow internet access' ticked in the setting menu on TMT? If not try ticking it then change 'Certification setting to 'Always ask'

Thanks Adbear, Under the TMT BD-Java menu I have

"Allow Access to Internet" is checked

And I have the following three options
1) Always approve Internet Access
2) Always refuse Internet Access
3) Confirm for every disk (this is the one currently set)

 

[Peer]

While I'm OK with this it is not family friendly given we run our HTPC via a RC and you have to pull out the keyboard to select an option and the majority of time a simple "none" will do. Try explaining regions etc to this lot!

Totally agreed.
The thing is: that's in itself an easy fix. That dialog is actually supposed to work with the RC just fine - problem is, that it has no initial focus on any selection there, so the RC won't pick up.
That's something for James to fix, he manages that GUI. I'll pass that on.

Suggestion 1: Can "Auto" be "Auto + None" if region is not determined

That would only fix your problem to a rough 50% (or whatever the quota of "foreign" regions is in your collection).
That is something that had occurred to me some time ago, but I discarded that one fast. Our support would get flooded with "I have AnyDVD set to automatically remove the region code, but I keep getting the 'wrong region code' picture. I wan't my money back now!"
In other words: the majority of users don't understand the region coding as it is - they don't have the slightest chance of understanding that behavior, then"

Suggestion 2: Can I reset the stored region info for just one disk if I (they) get it wrong the first time?

Sure, by temporarily setting AnyDVD to "manual" and then back to automatic - granted, that's not exactly user-friendly at all. But that situation should be an exception anyway.

Ultimate Suggestion: I'm not sure why AnyDVD HD even needs to try to determine a region from reading the disc. Since you have to ID the disc to remove AACS could you not keep the region information as part of your database then just apply it as required?

This, too, is not a new idea. The region code - among other additional information - would be nice to have in the DB.

But have you thought about exactly who is going to enter that information?
The answer, of course, will be "the users". But at this point I'll refer to some of the implications of what I wrote above.

- Users having their player set to region A can (and frequently will) select "region free" for any region A disc they like, without punishment.
- several discs are effectively region free while stating otherwise.
- people will and can state that a disc has a region code, even though it really is region free (I do sometimes, 'cause I'm lazy and sometimes hack in the region the disc is from without checking, because I know it will do no harm)

While the latter wouldn't be terminally bad on first sight, it will permanently mess up that database and users won't have much of a chance to set region free, where region free is intended.
The main reason for that being a problem: if there is no region, then there is no reason for AnyDVD to alter the BD-J code and that again will not interfere with BD-live (see the other problem you just posted).

You see, that problem is much, much more complex than one might think at first.
I may come up with a smarter solution for region checking in BD-J code, but that's anything but a trivial thing to do. In my opinion it's the only clean way out of this.

 

[jmone]

Hi, Quick question of what you would like me to do with the disc, should I:
- try 3.5.8.4 (and new repost results + new logs)
- wait to be asked to provide more info
- live with it (if unfixable)!

Thanks
Nathan

 

[DrinkLyeAndDie]

Hi, Quick question of what you would like me to do with the disc, should I:
- try 3.5.8.4 (and new repost results + new logs)
- wait to be asked to provide more info
- live with it (if unfixable)!

Thanks
Nathan

If you are a registered user then it pretty much goes without saying to update to the latest beta and provide log files. So, yes, update to v6.5.8.4 (http://sandbox.slysoft.com/beta/SetupAnyDVD6584.exe) beta and post logs, please.

 

[jmone]

Thanks for taking the time to respond Peer - I think it is possible even more complex! My understanding (and please be gentle if I'm a fool on this), is that when the disc's Java code runs it CAN check for the region of the BD Playback SW and based of the response it CAN do a bunch of differnt things. Examples may be:
1) "Region Free": Most discs (see Note 1)
a) do not Check Region Code OR
b) if they do check the Region Code but does not do anything "bad" (eg they may play region specific warnings / content aimed at a particular region but the main movie plays just fine
2) "Region Locked": The problematic ones are those that read the Region Code and then display a Stop Screen over playing the content.

It seems to me there are two options:
A) Hack the BD Playback SW so it will report the Region you want
B) Modify the Java Code so it does not care (or ask) what the region is

While I've reached my limit of knowing the best technical approach, it would seem to me that Slysoft has gone down path B to also handle BD-Live and I can appreciate the difficulty of this approach. Whatever solution is used to "defeat" region coding should not impact the playability of the majority of discs. The current approach in AnyDVD HD of tackling both BD-Live and Region Coding (as seen for the other post), has a couple of limitations:
1) cannot always work out what region to emulate
2) some discs don't work with the patched BD-J code

More Suggestions Mulling this over, I can only suggest an approach that:
1) separates out handling BD-Live from Region Coding (if possible) to reduce unintended consequences;
2) An Advanced Handling Option where a user can elect to use the DB to store the individual preferences on how they want each particular disc handled on top of the default “one approach to all discs” we have now. For example my default setting of “Remove Region Code --> Automatic” checked is causing issues with a locally purchased disc that plays fine as long as “Disable BD Live” is unchecked. I would see this “Advanced Handling Option” take a similar approach to “bee” that when you insert/play a disc/iso for the first time, AnyDVD HD (or bee) would ask you of what options (from the Settings Tab) you want to apply (and store in a local DB for later use).
The next question would be if you wanted to either collect this data so you could pre-populate some of these options for all users. Given, that “bee” has been running for a while, you would know how “good, bad, ugly” that user collected data is!
Anyway … thanks for listening!
Nathan

Note1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc): As of late 2008, almost 70% of all released discs were region-free.[63] Major studios have different region coding policies. Paramount Pictures and Universal Studios have released all of their titles region-free.[64][65] Sony Pictures and Warner Bros. have released most of their titles region-free, but titles released by Warner's New Line division were initially region-coded, but subsequently have been released without being locked. Titles released by other labels on behalf of New Line are still subject to some region locking.[66][67] Lionsgate and Walt Disney Pictures have released a region-free and region-coded mix of titles.[68][69] 20th Century Fox has released all but eleven of their titles region-coded.[70]

 

[jmone]

6.5.8.4 Logs Attached (same problem)
Thanks
Nathan

 

[James]

Thanks for taking the time to respond Peer - I think it is possible even more complex! My understanding (and please be gentle if I'm a fool on this), is that when the disc's Java code runs it CAN check for the region of the HW Drive and based of the response it CAN do a bunch of differnt things.

Here is the problem - the drive doesn't have a region code like a DVD drive. The disc doesn't have a region code like a DVD. Only the software player has one, and according to this setting the program code on the disc (Java or HDMV) it can do different things, as you've mentioned.
This is the major problem, with DVD you can ask the disc "what region(s) are allowed to play". With BD you can't, you can only make an educated guess.

Given there is no support for a "Region 0" in the spec allowing a FW Hack like with DVD Drives, it seems to me there are two options:

Small correction, DVD specs don't allow a "Region 0" player. A player must have a region. A "Region 0" hacked player won't play a lot of discs, as the code on the disc can (and will) check the region code register. E.g. most of US Fox titles do this.

 

[James]

6.5.8.4 Logs Attached (same problem)
Thanks
Nathan

I suggest you set AnyDVD to default settings. This should work.

 

[jmone]

True...but then my Region A locked stuff will not work....

 

[jmone]

Thanks James - Corrected my post.

Nathan


PS - As an aside, if I have two diferent playback SW installed on the one PC.....can I have one as Region A and one as Region B?

 

[Peer]

It seems to me there are two options:
A) Hack the BD Playback SW so it will report the Region you want
B) Modify the Java Code so it does not care (or ask) what the region is

Correct, B is what we're doing.
A) would be too messy, there would have to be a distinct fix for each and every version of every player - HW players being totally left out.

1) cannot always work out what region to emulate
2) some discs don't work with the patched BD-J code

More Suggestions Mulling this over, I can only suggest an approach that:
1) separates out handling BD-Live from Region Coding (if possible) to reduce unintended consequences;
2) An Advanced Handling Option where a user can elect to use the DB to store the individual preferences on how they want each particular disc handled on top of the default “one approach to all discs” we have now.

I guess we'll have to work on the "some discs don't work with patched BD-J code". Actually they don't really choke on the patched BD-J code.

It is impossible to separately not handle BD-live, for a simple reason: the JAR files are signed, to prevent tampering. When we modify those files, the signature is incorrect, so AnyDVD has to (re-)sign them itself using an own certificate. That is totally OK and works fine, with one exception: BD-live content downloaded from the studio is signed with the original certificate - which is no longer on the disc.
There are player-specific hacks to fix that too, but we don't do that for the same reason I gave above.

I think it might be a good idea to add a setting to AnyDVD to simply not remove the region code for discs from a certain region (being the region your player is set to). That way these would remain intact with their BD-live.
It depends a little bit on how well James has slept before he reads this, since he's the one who has to handle the GUI. That will influence how far down the priority list this issue is going to land. There is a certain priority threshold below which items will never bubble to the top, because things with higher priority will always keep pushing in...

PS - As an aside, if I have two diferent playback SW installed on the one PC.....can I have one as Region A and one as Region B?

Of course, that does always work as long as these two players can coexist.
Usually TMT and PDVD can be both installed (though I had severe trouble with that combination in the past, but that may have only applied to those early versions of TMT).
Also PDVD 7,8 and 9 can be installed in parallel (so you can have region A, B and C, if you like ).

 

[Adbear]

I'm not sure about 7, but if you have 8 and 9 on the same system with the newer builds when you change the region in 1 it changes in both and I suspect it may do the same with the later builds of 7

 

[Peer]

I'm not sure about 7, but if you have 8 and 9 on the same system with the newer builds when you change the region in 1 it changes in both and I suspect it may do the same with the later builds of 7

Hmm, you may have a point there - I did not check that with new versions.
Only with a fairly old version of 7.3 and the latest 9er.
I trust sooo much in AnyDVDs capability to remove region codes, never cared to verify that...

 

[James]

@jmone (and others):

Give AnyDVD 6.5.8.5 a try. The region code is handled much better (dialog box visible in Media Center, can be controlled with remote control).
Not perfect, but much, much better.

 

[jmone]

@jmone (and others):

Give AnyDVD 6.5.8.5 a try. The region code is handled much better (dialog box visible in Media Center, can be controlled with remote control).
Not perfect, but much, much better.

Thanks James - Works Well - I can confirm we no longer have to drag out the KB, works with the our Harmony One RC (using MCE codes) just fine.

 

[jmone]

Slumdog Millionaire - Aus (BD Live Prob)

Same problem as with HS Musical 2 - Aus (http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=33918).

This Disc will not play (just a black screen, no audio) as it tries to load the main menu if "Disable BD-Live" is ON (plays fine without AnyDVD HD Running or with "Disable BD-Live" off and regardless of the Remove Region Settings selected).

Log file attached.

Thanks
Nathan