Playing 24p at 25Hz?

[chrisk76]

Hi.
Apologies if this has been dealt with, but I couldn't see anything.

Is Reclock the solution to juddery Blu Ray playback on a PAL TV?

I can not set the refresh rate to 48Hz, as my TV can't accept anything below 50Hz. However, this obviously means twice per second the picture appears to 'freeze' as a frame gets repeated. Is this what I need to be able to speed up playback so that it plays at 25Hz instead and then the audio is resampled?

If not, can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks.

Using Vista x86, GeForce 9800GT and Arcsoft TMT for film playback.
(Forceware 180.48, SP1 + all windows updates)

 

[chrisk76]

OK, so I did the easy thing and just tried it...

Works absolutely brilliantly - thanks.

Can't believe it's not being made a commercial product though? :disagree:

 

[LINUS]

OK, so I did the easy thing and just tried it...

Works absolutely brilliantly - thanks.

Can't believe it's not being made a commercial product though? :disagree:

Hard to believe, you are right.

OTH: Slysoft has discovered the value of Reclock, so much for that.

Just take how long people in Europe have accepted PAL speedup (even on the British isles where they speak English AFAIK). Note: You can allow Reclock to 'timestretch' so that you do not have to suffer from the pitch increase when you play back 24p @50Hz.

 

[e2zippo]

LINUS: how do you "timestretch"?

 

[LINUS]

LINUS: how do you "timestretch"?

What do you mean? I use this for instance when I have display that can only do 50Hz. In that case the reclock timestretch is very useful NOT to introduce speedup for e.g. BluRay.

 

[James]

Hard to believe, you are right.

We will certainly use the technology if we ever make a "SlyPlayer".

As a standalone product ReClock is

- difficult to setup. Well, could even be called a nightmare.

- difficult to maintain (too many players, Media Center, PowerDVD, TMT, WinDVD, freeware players, shareware players, different codecs, renderers, ...)

- it is extremely difficult to "extract" important information if you aren't the player application, like source playback rate, which audio stream belongs to which video stream/which is the primary video stream (PIP). ReClock does all this pretty well, but I'm pushing it to the limit.

- difficult to sell. ReClock may be a product *everyone* needs (yes, I truly believe that), but you first must educate people why they actually need it. From a marketing point of view, this is hopeless.
For example PAL speedup: There are people spending thousands of bucks for nice amps and speakers, tweak their equipment, are very proud, but they don't notice that 90% of their PAL DVDs play 4% (!!!) too fast. OMG... :bang:
You can *see* it if you look closely. Not to mention that the average move is 5 minutes shorter than it should be.
You can *hear it* even better: http://www.schmidt-web.info/malte/english.html
But I usually hear "I don't care" from the Britts and the Aussies.

A player application could do everything what ReClock does much simpler and much better. Like switching refresh rates. Not to mention moving subtitles where you want them (CIH setups). Or making them smaller (DVD subtitles are just annoying on a 3m wide screen, thank god AnyDVD can make them transparent)

Well, enough ranting for now...

 

[LINUS]

Well, enough ranting for now...

Thanks James, as if you were my twin.

Anyways, how about making your own player for BR/HD-DVD/DVD (with reclock incorporated)? You don't need the approval of anybody of the 'big' players (as you don't have it anyways for AnyDVDHD), and for 100 Bucks a piece you could probably even make some profit and I for one would be happy to buy it and recommend it strongly to anybody who cares to ask.

 

[leeperry]

ReClock may be a product *everyone* needs (yes, I truly believe that), but you first must educate people why they actually need it. From a marketing point of view, this is hopeless.

very sad, but true...just like watching movies in their original gamut.

Samsung has taken the industry by storm by releasing a cheap projector(SP-A800B) that supports all kind of gamuts natively....and only Hollywood/mastering studios and enthusiasts have jumped on it.

JVC doesn't care, and they sell a very expensive external scaler to convert gamuts....to them only broadcast professionals require something like that.

most ppl will watch movies in 60Hz on an uncalibrated display in its crappy native wide gamut, where everything looks juddery to HELL and flashy....even if they got a 6 figures installation

anyway lemme know if I can apply as betatester for slyplayer...or maybe it's too early yet 8)

 

[LINUS]

JVC doesn't care

Not until now, however there is the JVC HD750/RS20 with THX preset and Color Management System now. Not without problems, but a step in the right direction as you have pointed out quite well.


Back on topic: It will always be the top 5% of all consumers who really care, but I am content with 5% (as we are still talking millions here).

 

[leeperry]

Not until now, however there is the JVC HD750/RS20 with THX preset and Color Management System now. Not without problems, but a step in the right direction

well this thing doesn't quite work from what I heard....even the BenQ W5/20K do better.
nothing beats gamut conversion on the PC anyhow, especially with the latest version of ddcc(that is so damn accurate with 64bits float operations )

but well, Reclock is a lost cause I agree......who cares about butter smooth movies in their native gamut ? not many

 

[James]

well this thing doesn't quite work from what I heard....even the BenQ W5/20K do better.

OT:
Eeww... This thing has a colorwheel? I would always prefer a 3 chip device (with less accurate gamut) as I can't stand the rainbow effect. So count me in to the "gamut" ignorants.

But I would certainly prefer a JVC with more accurate gamut. Or a nice Titan 3-chip DLP.

 

[leeperry]

OT:
Eeww... This thing has a colorwheel? I would always prefer a 3 chip device (with less accurate gamut) as I can't stand the rainbow effect. So count me in to the "gamut" ignorants.

But I would certainly prefer a JVC with more accurate gamut. Or a nice Titan 3-chip DLP.

well nothing beats JVC native contrast-wise, but they are still LCD at heart...so they suffer from misconvergence, shading, etc etc

ideally if you manage to get a "cherry cropped" JVC with perfectly aligned panels, use the "ddcc" Avisynth gamut conversion in ffdshow with a proper calibration sensor(such as the Eye One Display 2), and this should kick major *ss

OTOH, nothing beats DLP ANSI contrast-wise, and before complaining about RBE you should look at the latest DLP's(4/5/6X CW)....it's a far cry from the slow 2X CW that are -indeed- rainbow factories

even the most anti-DLP nazis on HCFR had to stop whining with the BenQ W5/20K, Mitsubishi HC1100/3100 etc....TI has improved their stuff quite a lot, and this works a lot faster than the human brain

some ppl on AVS sold their JVC to get a top of the line DLP coz the ANSI contrast was too low to their taste(250:1 ANSI for the HD1, 550:1 ANSI for the HC3100 for instance)

 

[LINUS]

well this thing doesn't quite work from what I heard....

Well, don't always believe, what you hear.

 

[LINUS]

But I would certainly prefer a JVC with more accurate gamut. Or a nice Titan 3-chip DLP.

James, I already thought you had a Titan (after the bad experience with a certain Italian brand ...).

P.S.: Did I mention the JVC HD750 is quite good in that department

 

[ashlar]

Well, enough ranting for now...

Yes, enough ranting for now... let me just start praying the gods for lots of ranting in the future.

We will certainly use the technology if we ever make a "SlyPlayer".

 

[protovision]

We will certainly use the technology if we ever make a "SlyPlayer".

+1 !

bought anydvd hd, great purchase. If you guys come out with a Blu ray + HD DVD (and if time, other common formats, .ts, etc) player app for < $100, I'd buy it 0-day (and happily beta test )

I trust and like Slysoft more than cyberlink.