MPC-HC not really working in WASAPI mode?

[XxDeadlyxX]

I'm playing MKV's in MPC-HC with FLAC audio - I have madFLAC set as decoder and ffdshow audio enabled to allow for a delay. I have Reclock set to WASAPI exclusive.

However, I am still able to change the volume slider in MPC-HC, which makes me think I'm not really in WASAPI exclusive mode? It definitely works in WMP12 as the volume slider doesn't work in that (same filters etc).

I want to also be able to adjust the main windows volume instead - like I do with WMP12. When I press the volume button on my remote it instead changes the MPC-HC volume.

 

[el Filou]

MPC-HC by design takes control of system-wide volume control commands.

Does ReClock says it's using WASAPI? If it says it does, then it does.
I think James may have included at some point a volume control system where the player instructs the renderer to change volume like it would with DirectShow and ReClock then changes the volume internally itself, but I can't remember if that has actually been implemented or in what version if it was.

 

[XxDeadlyxX]

Oh ok, yeh it does say it is running WASAPI.

The mpc-hc volume slider does seem independent from the main windows volume control though. Not sure if it supposed to control that or not.

 

[el Filou]

No, I meant when MPC is running, it takes over the system volume change commands (Windows messages? I don't know how that stuff works), which explains why it's changing its own volume control slider when you press global volume keys on your remote/keyboard, instead of those keys acting on the main Windows system volume like they normally do.

 

[James]

MPC-HC by design takes control of system-wide volume control commands.

Does ReClock says it's using WASAPI? If it says it does, then it does.
I think James may have included at some point a volume control system where the player instructs the renderer to change volume like it would with DirectShow and ReClock then changes the volume internally itself, but I can't remember if that has actually been implemented or in what version if it was.

Ask the changelog:

1.8.6.8 - 29/05/2010
* New: Software volume adjustment, supports Kernel streaming, Wasapi and Wave out
* Change: Setting volume will be performed in software with WaveOut. DSound volume will still be done using DSound SetVolume() API.
* Note: Adjusting the volume works with players using the DSound volume inteface, e.g. Media Player Classic or Zoom player.

 

[leeperry]

Ask the changelog:

so if I'm using DS on XP, the media player built-in volume control is not done internally by Reclock? The sliders in the windows mixing sure as hell aren't moving

 

[XxDeadlyxX]

No, I meant when MPC is running, it takes over the system volume change commands (Windows messages? I don't know how that stuff works), which explains why it's changing its own volume control slider when you press global volume keys on your remote/keyboard, instead of those keys acting on the main Windows system volume like they normally do.

Ah right - well I figured out how to stop that I disabled the volume key in MPC-HC key bindings and now my remote changes the main windows volume again - and I just leave MPC-HC volume at 100%.

 

[James]

so if I'm using DS on XP, the media player built-in volume control is not done internally by Reclock?

It is done by ReClock, but the DSound API is used (so the system may use a hardware attenuator).
In the other cases (Wave, WASAPI, KS) ReClock does software attenuation, which really isn't that .... great.

 

[leeperry]

It is done by ReClock, but the DSound API is used (so the system may use a hardware attenuator).
In the other cases (Wave, WASAPI, KS) ReClock does software attenuation, which really isn't that .... great.

OK, thanks for the reply James!

Oh bummer, why not allowing to use Reclock's built-in attenuation over DS?

I use a USB coax transport that doesn't have KS drivers, so it's prolly DS doing some sloppy attenuation :bang:

DS is bit-perfect on XP when all the sliders are set to the max, it would make perfect sense to allow the same kind of proprietary attenation as in KS/WASAPI

 

[James]

Oh bummer, why not allowing to use Reclock's built-in attenuation over DS?

Because Reclock's built-in attenuation ... sucks?

I use a USB coax transport that doesn't have KS drivers, so it's prolly DS doing some sloppy attenuation :bang:

DS is bit-perfect on XP when all the sliders are set to the max, it would make perfect sense to allow the same kind of proprietary attenation as in KS/WASAPI

ReClock's attenuation is .... very far from bit perfect. And I certainly doubt that DS is bit-perfect on XP when all the sliders are set to the max. I know, some people claim that, but I don't believe it. At all.

 

[leeperry]

Because Reclock's built-in attenuation ... sucks?

worse than DS on XP? I've got a hard time believing it as you said that Reclock's attenuation was working in 56 bit or so, feeding 32fp.

Any chance of you adding a registry key to force the built-in attenuation plz plz plz?

ReClock's attenuation is .... very far from bit perfect. And I certainly doubt that DS is bit-perfect on XP when all the sliders are set to the max. I know, some people claim that, but I don't believe it. At all.

Well, it's been tested w/ DTS/AC3 files and they pass through untouched via DS...they don't on Vista/W7.

You don't want attenuation to be bit-perfect, you just want it to be applied w/ the highest accurary...and DS on XP isn't quite the sharpest knife in the drawer :doh:

 

[James]

worse than DS on XP? I've got a hard time believing it as you said that Reclock's attenuation was working in 56 bit or so, feeding 32fp.

Calclulation is done with a double precision float, but in the end you will lose a lot of dynamic as soon as it is converted to 32bit fp.
Attenuation in hardware (if supported) should always be better.

Any chance of you adding a registry key to force the built-in attenuation plz plz plz?

I really don't see the point. It has been the way it is now for over a year, and you never complained.

 

[James]

Well, it's been tested w/ DTS/AC3 files and they pass through untouched via DS...they don't on Vista/W7.

Interesting. I'll try that "at home" sometime, but I believe I did once, and it failed.

 

[leeperry]

I really don't see the point. It has been the way it is now for over a year, and you never complained.

Well, I've kept upgrading my equipment over the years/months, I now use stuff I madly enjoy listening to...and you dunno a good thing until you lose it, right?

before you accepted to provide an option to upsample, everyone was happy w/ 47952Hz...but as soon as 95904Hz became available, going back to 47952 became clearly out of the question!

audio is a nasty hobby because there's always something better sounding out there, and you'll never know what you've been missing all along before trying it :bang:

I've already told you that the same song in uLilith or Reclock sounded different, brighter and a bit shrill in Reclock compared to uLilith through ASIO4ALL(which is supposedly very much bit-perfect, being essentially a KS hack at heart).

When I first moved from a PCI analog soundcard to a USB coax transport, I really wanted to use the windows master volume attenuation....but it didn't sound good at all.

I would really appreciate if you could please allow to force the built-in attenuator, and don't tell me which value does what so I can try to compare them w/o knowing

And I apologize for sounding like a broken record, but the adaptation drop down menu could use some improvement...like adding 48/50/60fps, refreshrate/40 by /80 by /100, removing all the 23.976/24 and 29.97/30fps that are just dupes as Reclock really only knows 6 frame rates internally AFAIK: 24/25/30/48/50/60. Ogo's mess is out of place now that you've turned Reclock into a first class audio tool

Interesting. I'll try that "at home" sometime, but I believe I did once, and it failed.

Dogbert said it numerous times, he's a driver engineer: http://code.google.com/p/cmediadrivers/

 

[James]

I would really appreciate if you could please allow to force the built-in resampler, and don't tell me which value does what so I can try to compare them w/o knowing

Now I'm lost. The built-in resampler is always used (unless you tell ReClock to use DSound resampler).

And I apologize for sounding like a broken record, but the adaptation drop down menu could use some improvement...like adding 48/50/60fps, refreshrate/40 by /80 by /100, removing all the 23.976/24 and 29.97/30fps that are just dupes as Reclock really only knows 6 frame rates internally AFAIK: 24/25/30/48/50/60. Ogo's mess is out of place now that you've turned Reclock into a first class audio tool

They aren't dupes, and no, I won't change anything.
ReClock is done, there won't be any changes.

 

[leeperry]

Now I'm lost. The built-in resampler is always used (unless you tell ReClock to use DSound resampler).

oops, of course I meant "attenuator". It's a damn shame that you use the crappy KMixer for anything, so much for built-in attenuator, 56bit yada yada

They aren't dupes, and no, I won't change anything.
ReClock is done, there won't be any changes.

They're very much dupes...to Reclock 23.976/24 and 29.97/30fps are the exact same and if I wanna play a 59.94fps video in 48fps, I have to do some mental computing and use a "divide refresh rate/xx" to have it. This is a mess and it could be greatly improved, hard to deny? And you allow slow speed such as "refresh rate/20" for 24Hz users, but for 96/120Hz CRT users they're basically SOL if they want slow motion. You've kept an old and obsolete list of adaptation rates that completely cripple Reclock IMHO. It would be like a Ferrari w/ a three speeds gearbox :bang:

 

[leeperry]

having second thoughts, what if I use WaveOut? no more KMixer and I get to use the built-in attenuator then? 8)