Help with my HD-DVD frustration

[BigCoolJesus]

Hey all,

So I have 84 HD-DVD's that I purchased when prices drop after the format was declared dead. I also have the Xbox 360 add-on player. I want to burn all of my HD-DVD movies onto Blu-ray so I don't need to use my 360 anymore.

AnyDVD HD is installed on my computer and I have spent the last week trying various methods to achieve this.

The first method was using EVODemux and TSMuxer to create BD file structures to burn onto my BD-R discs, however the final output of the movies was always 1080i and I could not get TrueHD/DTS-HD soundtracks, only DD+. Very frustrating as I was 20 movies in when I noticed this problem.

The next method I tried was ClownBD, but I was having an issue where some of the audio tracks were not encoded correctly (dialogue coming out of left/right speakers and not center). Also, instead of outputting DD+, it would convert the audio to LPCM. What gives with that?

I just got done trying RipBot......but it takes WAY too long.


Questions:
1) Can I just use AnyDVD HD to rip the entire HD-DVD disc to an ISO image and than burn that image onto a BD-R and play it back in my Bluray player? Or will that not work?

if no

2) What is the absolute easiest and full proof way to take an HD-DVD and burn it onto a BD-R disc so that it will playback in full 1080p video and full DD+/TrueHD/DTS-HD audio goodnees?


I DO NOT need to shrink the video/audio or edit it in any way. I just want to make a 1:1 copy onto a bluray disc so I can watch using my bluray player for now on.

Thank you to anyone who can help me sort out this mess.

 

[SamuriHL]

Option 1...NO. Definitely not.

For what you're trying to do, ClownBD is it for now. Not sure what's up with the audio issues you're having. You should give us a step by step of the process you're using.

I personally just replaced my BD drive in my HTPC and had to rip all my HD DVD's before I put the new drive in. (New drives don't read them....my old LG drives did). What I did was rip them all to MKV's, but, if you're trying to burn them, then you're going to need to use ClownBD to rip the streams, and remaster them into a BD format.

 

[BigCoolJesus]

Regarding ClownBD,

1) Is there a difference between using AnyDVD HD to rip the entire HD-DVD disc to my hard drive and then using ClownBD to convert to bluray or just letting ClownBD rip and convert all on its own (with AnyDVD HD running in background to remove copyright protection)? One method better than the other?

2) Why do DD+ soundtracks get converted to LPCM when everything is said and done after using ClownBD?
Example: After running Old School (which has a DD+ track) through ClownBD, VLC player says the audio track is LPCM. But a move with a Dolby TrueHD track (like 300) reports as TrueHD in VLC during testing after ClownBD is done.

Why is ClownBD altering DD+ tracks? Can't it just leave the audio untouched like it does for TrueHD tracks?


I just want the absolute best picture and video quality. Space/size is not a concern. 1080p and lossless audio is.

 

[SamuriHL]

1) no difference. I work off the disc when I'm ripping/re authoring.

2) check the logs. Dd+ on hd dvd is slightly different than on bd so it might not be ripping right. Not really sure on that one.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2

 

[Adbear]

Dd+ on hd dvd is slightly different than on bd so it might not be ripping right. Not really sure on that one.

From what I can remember DD+ (E-AC-3) is mandatory on HD DVD, but only the AC3 core is mandatory on Blu-ray players, also as you say the file type is slightly different so it would require a DD+ encoder to remake the file into a Blu-ray compliant stream, so ClownBD converts them to wave audio so you can keep the quality. If it were just to pass the audio file over 'as is' then the audio wouldn't play on a set top Blu-ray player. (from what I can remember from 5 years ago, if you tried to take it over without converting you just got horrible white noise)
Whereas the spec for TrueHD is the same on both HD DVD and Blu-ray so those can be taken over with no conversion as it's a compliant stream

 

[SamuriHL]

From what I can remember DD+ (E-AC-3) is mandatory on HD DVD, but only the AC3 core is mandatory on Blu-ray players, also as you say the file type is slightly different so it would require a DD+ encoder to remake the file into a Blu-ray compliant stream, so ClownBD converts them to wave audio so you can keep the quality. If it were just to pass the audio file over 'as is' then the audio wouldn't play on a set top Blu-ray player. (from what I can remember from 5 years ago, if you tried to take it over without converting you just got horrible white noise)
Whereas the spec for TrueHD is the same on both HD DVD and Blu-ray so those can be taken over with no conversion as it's a compliant stream

That makes sense to me. While dd+ is technically supported in the bd spec the only bd ever found to contain it is the bd sampler disc. I guess I should have realized that it would need to be converted.

That being said if you then try to test playback on the pc after it's been converted to lpcm, and you aren't using exclusive mode, and you have windows audio set to 2 channels.... Guess what happens? You get stereo sound to make you think the conversion was bad. Also rereading the OP, a lot of hd dvd were done in 1080i...sadly. So I think the conversion is working as it should now that I think about it more.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2

 

[BigCoolJesus]

OK, so let me see if I am getting this all pieced together correctly:

- DD+ will not playback on a standalone bluray player because it is specific to HD-DVD players only

- Using my original pathway of EVODemux and TSMuxer was giving me a bluray structure that had DD+ audio, which was playing back fine on my PC for testing, but had I burned it onto an actual bluray and tried in my stand alone player, it would not have played back correctly

- ClownBD's way of converting the DD+ audio into LPCM is therefore the correct way of going about this since I plan on burning to bluray and playing back in a stand alone player

- Some of the movies I have tested on my PC after using ClownBD with LPCM tracks where the audio was not synced correctly to the appropriate speakers is just an error with my PC settings but will playback correctly once I burn to bluray

- LPCM will play back fine on my stand alone bluray player and AV receiver

- LPCM is the same audio quality as the original DD+ track

Is all of the above correct?

Also rereading the OP, a lot of hd dvd were done in 1080i...sadly

Not arguing, more asking, but why do all my HD-DVD's report 1080p under video details on the movie cases if they are really 1080i?

 

[SamuriHL]

OK, so let me see if I am getting this all pieced together correctly:

We'll go through this one step at a time.

- DD+ will not playback on a standalone bluray player because it is specific to HD-DVD players only

Well, BD has DD+ as a standard. However, it's different in how they store the extended channel data than what HD DVD does.

- Using my original pathway of EVODemux and TSMuxer was giving me a bluray structure that had DD+ audio, which was playing back fine on my PC for testing, but had I burned it onto an actual bluray and tried in my stand alone player, it would not have played back correctly

I have no experience in trying to remaster one from HD DVD to a BD and then playing it on a stand alone BD player, so, I couldn't tell you for sure if it'll work or not. Gut instinct tells me not.

- ClownBD's way of converting the DD+ audio into LPCM is therefore the correct way of going about this since I plan on burning to bluray and playing back in a stand alone player

Yup. It will decode DD+ losslessly to LPCM (which is what *ALL* audio tracks are in reality....LPCM is the raw audio. DD+/TrueHD/DTS-HD MA are all compressed audio tracks. To play them, a decoder "decompresses them" to LPCM....similar in concept to Zip vs Rar in a way). That LPCM track will be lossless to what the original audio track provided you. Possibly with the loss of some metadata but its value is arguable.

- Some of the movies I have tested on my PC after using ClownBD with LPCM tracks where the audio was not synced correctly to the appropriate speakers is just an error with my PC settings but will playback correctly once I burn to bluray

Right, so, depending on how you played them back to test them, if you're sending the audio through windows audio mixer, it'll get resampled/remixed to whatever settings you have. That's not ideal. We'll talk in a minute how to tell for sure what the audio is.

- LPCM will play back fine on my stand alone bluray player and AV receiver
- LPCM is the same audio quality as the original DD+ track

Most definitely to both.

Is all of the above correct?

Mostly.

Not arguing, more asking, but why do all my HD-DVD's report 1080p under video details on the movie cases if they are really 1080i?

Depends on the movie. Here's what I recommend, however. Get a program called media info if you haven't already. This will allow you to see what's in the streams. This will also allow you to see the LPCM track you create. But a lot of them that claim to be 1080p are in reality 1080i. Beats me why they did that.

 

[James]

Also rereading the OP, a lot of hd dvd were done in 1080i...sadly.

Huh? I don't believe it. I know perhaps 1 or 2 ... out of 300. All movies from major studios aren't interlaced.

 

[SamuriHL]

Huh? I don't believe it. I know perhaps 1 or 2 ... out of 300. All movies from major studios aren't interlaced.

I'll have to find them again. I had a list somewhere. But there were definitely some that were encoded as 1080i. Far more prevalent on HD DVD than on BD.

 

[BigCoolJesus]

Wow, thanks Samuri! Giving ClownBD another shot

Also, attached are my ClownBD settings and what boxes I check when ripping an HD-DVD (2Fast 2Furious in this example). Let me know if anything seems out of place or incorrect.

 

[James]

Far more prevalent on HD DVD than on BD.

Really?
I know many interesting BD titles which are interlaced, like all BBC discs.

I believe I have almost every HD DVD disc ever made, and there are very few interlaced discs among them.

 

[James]

Really?
I know many interesting BD titles which are interlaced, like all BBC discs.

More OT stuff:
I was quite shocked to find out, that "Phantoms" and "Halloween VI" from the recently released Mirmax' "Masters of Terror" Blu-ray set are both interlaced.

 

[SamuriHL]

Really?
I know many interesting BD titles which are interlaced, like all BBC discs.

I believe I have almost every HD DVD disc ever made, and there are very few interlaced discs among them.

Hold that thought. I know what I'm confused on. It's not the 1080i issue, although there are some. It's the freaking pulldown crap on HD DVD for VC1. EAC3TO removes that, so, for ClownBD it's doing the right thing. Anything else you rip with doesn't remove them and shows the wrong FPS (which can confuse some programs into thinking it's interlaced when it's not, although that's the program's fault not the video). So yes, I was incorrect and thinking of a completely different problem.

 

[BigCoolJesus]

Hold that thought. I know what I'm confused on. It's not the 1080i issue, although there are some. It's the freaking pulldown crap on HD DVD for VC1. EAC3TO removes that, so, for ClownBD it's doing the right thing. Anything else you rip with doesn't remove them and shows the wrong FPS (which can confuse some programs into thinking it's interlaced when it's not, although that's the program's fault not the video). So yes, I was incorrect and thinking of a completely different problem.

I actually read about the HD-DVD pull down issue a few days ago.....but was utterly confused

In a nutshell: ClownBD is taking care of said "pull down issue" and my movies will come out in their native 1080p form when all is said and done, right?
And that would also explain why using the EVODemux + TSMuxer route was giving me 1080i at the end, because it wasn't addressing the pull down, right?

 

[BigCoolJesus]

Oh and do my ClownBD screenshots in my previous post look correct in terms of settings? Any issues you see?

Thanks!

 

[SamuriHL]

If the pulldown isn't removed, the reported frame rate is off, so, it's POSSIBLE it'll show 1080i incorrectly depending on what you're using to show that information. So yea, it's possible that caused it. Please note that it's only a informational issue, not an actual problem with the video.

ClownBD uses EAC3TO to extract the streams and it removes pulldown, so, you're good.

And yea, those look ok.

 

[BigCoolJesus]

Thanks a whole lot Samuri!

Looks like I have all my misconceptions/misinformation/questions sorted out and can move ahead with ClownBD.

Thanks again!

 

[SamuriHL]

To give you an idea of what it can look like if you don't remove pulldown, here's one of my MKV's from an HD DVD I did recently:

Video 
ID : 1 
Format : VC-1 
Format profile : Advanced@L3 
Codec ID : WVC1 
Codec ID/Hint : Microsoft 
Duration : 2h 10mn 
Bit rate : 20.3 Mbps 
Width : 1 920 pixels 
Height : 1 080 pixels 
Display aspect ratio : 16:9 
Frame rate mode : Variable 
[B]Frame rate : 29.970 fps [/B]
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 
Bit depth : 8 bits 
[B]Scan type : Progressive [/B]
Scan order : Top Field First 
Compression mode : Lossy 
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.327 
Stream size : 18.5 GiB (91%) 
Language : English 
Default : No

Notice that the FPS is off (it should be 23.976) and in this case it does show progressive. But, a program can look at the 29.970 and incorrectly assume it's interlaced. And that is what I was thinking of when I said a lot of HD DVD's were 1080i. They're potentially REPORTED as 1080i because of this issue. VC1 was widely used on a lot of HD DVD's and they need pulldown applied. The program I use doesn't do so.

 

[BigCoolJesus]

Attached is the Media Info screenshot of 2Fast 2Furious that just got done ripping. Everything look spot on to you?

Thanks!