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Frame rate built-in estimator with telecine flagged mpeg2 media

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King Riado

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I have many 23.976 fps mpeg2 files which are flagged as 3:2 pulldown so they can be played on NTSC systems 29.97.

untitled.jpg
untitled2.JPG

ReClock frame detection will detect 29.97 for few seconds before switching to 23.976. I tried both 30 and 24 refresh rate with same results. Play back of these files will be jerky for the first few seconds.

If I disable “Determine frame rate of media files using built-in estimator (recommended)” those files will play fine at 29.97 right from start.

Tested under v1.8.3.6 and v1.8.3.8

Thanks,
Riado
 
King Riado said:
I have many 23.976 fps mpeg2 files which are flagged as 3:2 pulldown so they can be played on NTSC systems 29.97.

View attachment 6275
View attachment 6276

ReClock frame detection will detect 29.97 for few seconds before switching to 23.976. I tried both 30 and 24 refresh rate with same results. Play back of these files will be jerky for the first few seconds.

If I disable “Determine frame rate of media files using built-in estimator (recommended)” those files will play fine at 29.97 right from start.

Tested under v1.8.3.6 and v1.8.3.8

Thanks,
Riado
Click to expand...
These files should be played at ~24fps (on a 24fps capable display), so ReClock does exactly what it is supposed to do.
 
Thanks James, but why is it taking ~3 seconds to detect the right frame rate? The problem is you hear a gap in the audio when it switches from the 3:2 pulldown 29.97 to the original frame rate 23.976.
 
I've attached a log if you are interested, because when playing those files in 24htz res the video is correct and smooth, but audio keeps disconnecting every few seconds.

Looking forward for you feedback. Thanks.
 

Attachments

  • reclock_log.zip
    11.6 KB · Views: 1
King Riado said:
I've attached a log if you are interested, because when playing those files in 24htz res the video is correct and smooth, but audio keeps disconnecting every few seconds.

Looking forward for you feedback. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Strange. Can you please try DirectSound output? Any difference?
 
I tried DirectSound but same results. Please grab this video for testing.
 
King Riado said:
I tried DirectSound but same results. Please grab this video for testing.
Click to expand...

Hmm, plays perfectly fine. Tried Zoomplayer & MPC with ffdshow video/audio and WASAPI, DSound & Wave.
 
Thanks for the extensive testing James.

I don't know what to say now, because this is happening with two different media centre pcs, one using AC3 encoder, and the other just two channels analouge.

Are you testing with 24Hz res? Do you have internal frame rate detection ON? Does the audio not have even one gap of silence?
 
Just as a general comment, I have found that by far the best MPEG2 decoder for film material flagged at 29.97fps is the Unofficial 1080i IVTC version of Dscaler5.

It's the only decoder which reliably performs inverse telecine on basically all MPEG2 - all other decoders report 29.97 fps while this decoder finds the 23.976fps underlying framerate.

It's on AVS forum - maybe in an archive now. Written by Kzeuh.

It may help if you are having framerate detection issues.
It may help
 
King Riado said:
Are you testing with 24Hz res? Do you have internal frame rate detection ON? Does the audio not have even one gap of silence?
Click to expand...

1.) Yes
2.) Yes or no (doesn't matter)
3.) No (well, there is a gap when estimator detects the framerate, but that's normal and can be eliminated easily with changed settings)
 
Mark_A_W said:
Just as a general comment, I have found that by far the best MPEG2 decoder for film material flagged at 29.97fps is the Unofficial 1080i IVTC version of Dscaler5.

It's the only decoder which reliably performs inverse telecine on basically all MPEG2 - all other decoders report 29.97 fps while this decoder finds the 23.976fps underlying framerate.

It's on AVS forum - maybe in an archive now. Written by Kzeuh.

It may help if you are having framerate detection issues.
It may help
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input Mark. It's true that ffdshow reports 29.97fps, but it does play it fine on 24Hz res, because I can see it really smooth, so it must be processing the 23.976 frames accurately. But nevertheless I will try Kzeuh version of DScaler5.

If you have a 24Hz display, can you please try the attached clip?

At the moment when I play this clip, ReClock is yellow for ~3 seconds (29.97fps) then it becomes green after that (23.976fps). Audio has few short silence gaps along the entire clip.

James said:
3.) No (well, there is a gap when estimator detects the framerate, but that's normal and can be eliminated easily with changed settings)
Click to expand...

Hi James, how do you eliminate this with changed settings? Maybe this is my problem!
 
King Riado said:
Hi James, how do you eliminate this with changed settings? Maybe this is my problem!
Click to expand...

The trouble with ReClock is, there is always more than one way.

In video settings

1.) Disable the built-in estimator for media files. During playback, set the frame rate manually. ReClock will remember this if you play the file again.

or

2.) Set a default speed for "other files", in your case 23.97. ReClock will start with this speed until the estimator knows the correct one.
 
This is how I pass 6ch pcm from ffdshow to ReClock. Not sure if there is a problem here, but it works fine in all proper 23.976fps files:

ffdshow_audio.jpg
 
Last edited:
King Riado said:
Thanks for your input Mark. It's true that ffdshow reports 29.97fps, but it does play it fine on 24Hz res, because I can see it really smooth, so it must be processing the 23.976 frames accurately. But nevertheless I will try Kzeuh version of DScaler5.

If you have a 24Hz display, can you please try the attached clip?

At the moment when I play this clip, ReClock is yellow for ~3 seconds (29.97fps) then it becomes green after that (23.976fps). Audio has few short silence gaps along the entire clip.



Hi James, how do you eliminate this with changed settings? Maybe this is my problem!
Click to expand...


I run 96hz. I'll try the clip.
 
Ok, I tried the clip.

It takes about a second for the IVTC Dscaler decoder to detect the film cadence and switch to 23.976 fps.

This is normal - that's how IVTC detection works - it needs some frames to play to measure the cadence. It's flagged as 29.97fps, so that's why the decoder starts that way.

I don't think there's any issue.
 
Thanks Mark for the test.

My problem is I'm getting multiple silence gaps during the entire clip, not only during the 29.97-->23.976 switch.

Since both you and James don't experience these issues, I will keep investigating until I find out why (even though I really run out of ideas) :confused:

Thanks again to you both James and Mark for testing ;)

I will report back here :policeman:
 
you can use DGpulldown, set it to 23.976 > 23.976 and tadam! it will output 23.976 and let the MPEG decoder do the pulldown on its own 8)
 
leeperry, I like the way you think :agree: but I tried that before posting this thread. The problem I had was I needed to de-mux the video before using DGpulldown, and I always had av sync problems when I mux it back.
 
well I did it a few times on telecine HDTV 1080i, worked like a charm :agree:
 
You're welcome to try it with the attached clip in the previous post :D
 
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