CloneBD Ease-of-Use

[Steve55]

I know I said I'd post a comparison of CloneBD and MakeMKV, and I will get around to it ... one day ... I hope in 2015 even.

But in the meantime I just want to make one brief comment.

Put the I love Lucy BD disk 1 of 6 into the drive. You want to rip the 6 episodes. Compare the presentation of CloneBD as against MakeMKV. Frankly, CloneBD is meant to be easy, but actually achieves to be cryptic and bewildering. MakeMKV with its much more bare-bones presentation is actually -much- easier to see at a glance which items have which playlists, are the right length, and therefore I want to copy.

Just a brief comment which I hope could give rise to some positive improvement, till I have time to post something longer.

 

[ddjmagic]

CloneBD should be easier in this regard. For most TV discs it should attempt to determine which episode is which.
On the title selection screen you should see something like: Title 1 - 00:43:00 - Episode 1. Then you have the option to play/preview.

As good as MakeMKV is, I think this is actually one of the things CloneBD has an advantage over MakeMKV.

 

[Steve55]

Hi ddjmagic
Please, try it with the actual disk I mention and then see what you think ;-)
I think if you do this you will understand my point.
I know how it's supposed to work, but the reality is often different.

 

[Pete]

Hi ddjmagic
Please, try it with the actual disk I mention and then see what you think ;-)
I think if you do this you will understand my point.
I know how it's supposed to work, but the reality is often different.

I doubt anyone will go ahead and buy this particular disc, just to understand what you're trying to say.
Can you please explain what you mean?
I find CloneBD extremely easy to use and the way titles are presented on the selection page is unmatched by any other program, so I really don't understand your point.

So are you talking about a bug? A design flaw?

 

[Steve55]

I doubt anyone will go ahead and buy this particular disc, just to understand what you're trying to say.
Can you please explain what you mean?
I find CloneBD extremely easy to use and the way titles are presented on the selection page is unmatched by any other program, so I really don't understand your point.

So are you talking about a bug? A design flaw?

Design flaw, sorry i thought that was clear.
Ok I'll upload some screenshots when I can of both products from that disk
Makemkv is usable for disks like this - and i have many, this is only an extreme example - clonebd really isnt, because in trying to make things simple it achieves the opposite

Steve

 

[Pete]

Design flaw, sorry i thought that was clear.
Ok I'll upload some screenshots when I can of both products from that disk
Makemkv is usable for disks like this - and i have many, this is only an extreme example - clonebd really isnt, because in trying to make things simple it achieves the opposite

I know that series can be tricky, because it's near impossible to tell what is what.
Maybe also add an AnyDVD log file, so we can see the file structure of the disc.

 

[pepegotme]

CloneBD should be easier in this regard. For most TV discs it should attempt to determine which episode is which.
On the title selection screen you should see something like: Title 1 - 00:43:00 - Episode 1. Then you have the option to play/preview.

As good as MakeMKV is, I think this is actually one of the things CloneBD has an advantage over MakeMKV.

And don't forget "Cinavia."

 

[Adbear]

When making MKV's Cinavia doesn't really matter as nearly all players will play MKV's without detecting Cinavia

 

[Steve55]

I know that series can be tricky, because it's near impossible to tell what is what.
Maybe also add an AnyDVD log file, so we can see the file structure of the disc.

I'll do that
Sorry i was so lazy with my first post
Steve

 

[Steve55]

Hi Here is finally a bit more info. I apologise again for lack of time, I'd like to do much more but all I can do is write a kind of devil's advocate post in the hope it may be useful.
In the attached zip file are (1) Anydvd log, (2) Screenprint from CloneBD, (3) Screenprint from MakeMKV
On the screenprints "Bonus 3" (the pilot episode) is compared directly
My point about MakeMKV is that's it's much more easy to look at the files and get a quick feeling for what's in them, both in terms of clips and in terms of audio, and to use vlc for a quick play
In 5 minutes I can get a good understanding of a disk like this typically, hoping that CloneBD can always decode menus I think is over-optimistic and you need to make it more easy to get an overview of a disk like this (which is typical of a lot of TV stuff where disks patch together idents, ad breaks, zero-length closing chapters, trailers, intros, etc etc in various combinations).
Here are some comments
- The hover mechanism with its presentation of chapters and clips by red and yellow lines is of course helpful but with Makedvd I can look at everything holistically. With CloneBD everything disappears, by hovering you can only look track by track, and frankly that's much harder work. This is my main point, especially with some disks which have more items than this one.
- I can only look at one "settings" at a time, this is also a function of the whole strip thing
- I can't see the audio info, this is also important for understanding the tracks.
Part of the reason I wrote my original very cryptic note was that I don't have the solution only the question!! But it's certain that "operationally" it's much easier to see with MakeMKV what's there, that track 48 is 39 + 36, and also you can see the audio is different (in fact, a commentary). And I wonder, if a better presentation is possible. Does the frame strip really add value or is it just prettifying without function (other than the first frame maybe)? Maybe, some compromise of the existing presentation with a "tree" expansion of each strip is possible?

Well I hope this helps - I hope it's not too incoherent, I'm working overnight before catching a 7am plane and wanted to get this done...

I can see that many many things are getting step by step fixed by the way.

Steve

 

[Adbear]

I think it's a case of personal preference. I look at the MakeMKV list and find it harder to see which may be episodes and which may be extras. In CloneBD I find it easier just looking at the film strip, and then use it's player functionality to work out which is the forced subtitle track.

I often use MakeMKV and Handbrake to make my MKV's as CloneBD still doesn't give the option for separate subtitle tracks, but I find it easier to load the film or TV series into CloneBD then at a glance at the film strip I can normally see which title is the correct one as the film strip often shows any extra scenes in the strip such as directors/actors explaining a scene etc so I can normally see at a glance which ones are incorrect. I can then easily see which is the correct one and choose that one in MakeMKV or Handbrake. In MakeMKV there's no way to know which one is which.
I also don't really need to know if the film/TV episode is made up from more than 1 clip as the final output should automatically include all of them in 1 MKV file anyway

 

[Pete]

As Adbear says, it's a question of personal preference. Or rather what you're used to, I suppose you've been using MakeMKV for quite a while.
When I look at your screenshots - I find the one of MakeMKV completely confusing, can't make much sense out of it. Which is ok, it's a simple GUI and meant to be that way, but I just have a lot more trouble figuring out the details from all that text and numbers.

CloneBD normally gets it right pretty often - series are more difficult to automatically analyse. And this case confuses CloneBD, because even the episodes seem to be split into multiple clips. Thats a pretty special case. So it's labeling everything as "Bonus". Might require some improvement.

Displaying some properties as a tree should be possible. I'll pass that on - but I'm not sure, if that would improve much.
I usually just slide out the settings box, then hover over those few topmost titles and can see withing seconds, which title has the HD audio tracks, etc...
The tree thing would require the user to manually expand each node of interest (having all expanded by default would break clarity - just too much information)

 

[ddjmagic]

Looking at the layout of this disc, I'm not sure if much could be done to automatically sort this one out

Perhaps in this particular case the file tree does make it easier to compare, but I think most of the time CloneBD is simpler/easier to use.

 

[Steve55]

hi everyone
Thanks for the responses
I would like to say that disks with the episodes broken up like that are maybe not a majority but are very common - i am perhaps unusual in having loads of tv stuff - it's because different elements are combined together in various combinations to make the episodes/ menu items: original tv ident and ad breaks, optional actor intro, alternative sound, all sorts of stuff.
Its true to say I am still using makemkv live and clonebd not yet, but i honestly dont think its an unconscious preference or familiarity because ive had a good crack at clonebd
When i'm back at home I'll put a few more examples up, to give a better idea. This was just a typical one.
Not trying to be difficult or expect to be put at the top of the list when there are many more important things to be fixed, but i feel like i did enough serious hands on that it's not "just me" feeling like the makemkv is giving me more info that i need
(Apologies for spelling and grammar i'm on the phone)
Cheers Steve