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Blu-Ray library via network

satellitecomp

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OK- couple quick questions.

I plan on turning all of my Blu-Ray discs in to ISOs on a server that could be accessed from any TV in my house.

#1) Is an ISO copy quality the exact same as putting a Blu-Ray disc in your drive and watching it that way?

#2) Will the network be fast enough? I will try to have it be wired.

Any help would be appreciated! Thanks. :)
 
1) Yes - the quality is identical
2) Yes - you will need a wired network for reliable playback and if you have multiple ISO's being played you will need a Gigabit Network as each playback will consume up to 50Mbits/sec

Thanks
Nathan
 
1) Yes - the quality is identical
2) Yes - you will need a wired network for reliable playback and if you have multiple ISO's being played you will need a Gigabit Network as each playback will consume up to 50Mbits/sec

Thanks
Nathan


Hrm. What is the fastest wired network I can get?

Also, are there variables that affect image/sounds quality? Such as graphics cards, sound cards, CPUs, etc...? Could a graphics card have better image quality than a lesser graphics card?

By sound quality, I refer to digital sound without any conversions. So, any differences between sounds cards and transfering pure digital sound? I'm looking at the new Auzentech HDMI encoding card coming out in September.
 
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Hrm. What is the fastest wired network I can get?

I would readily admit that the ideal situation is to have a CAT5 wired network. However, don't dismiss wireless just yet. I initially thought that wireless was insufficient for high definition until i did some research on "best practices" for setting up a high definition wireless network.

My network consists of a 5Tb server connected to a DIR-655 DLink router that feeds 2 wireless clients and 1 wired client. I would consider the performance of high definition playback very good. I only get 1 or at the most 2 quick studders when watching a movie (lasting 1 or 2 seconds in duration). This is most likely from interference as the bandwith is more than capable to handle the high bit rate of Blu Ray media. Just rewinding a couple seconds always takes care of it. i would say that my viewing experience with a wireless is a ton better than cable on demand movies. So if you are satified with that performance, you will be satisfied with the performance of high definition over wirless (with some caveats)

If you have the money to run CAT5 cable from your router to your client computers, then that's the gold standard, but if you live in an area where you don't have alot of other wireless routers that can interfere with your signal, then wireless N is definitely capable.

Something I do want to try in the future is a product by DLink that will be released pretty soon. It allows you to send your routers signal through your preexisting cable wires. This may also be an option for you.
 
I would readily admit that the ideal situation is to have a CAT5 wired network. However, don't dismiss wireless just yet. I initially thought that wireless was insufficient for high definition until i did some research on "best practices" for setting up a high definition wireless network.

My network consists of a 5Tb server connected to a DIR-655 DLink router that feeds 2 wireless clients and 1 wired client. I would consider the performance of high definition playback very good. I only get 1 or at the most 2 quick studders when watching a movie (lasting 1 or 2 seconds in duration). This is most likely from interference as the bandwith is more than capable to handle the high bit rate of Blu Ray media. Just rewinding a couple seconds always takes care of it. i would say that my viewing experience with a wireless is a ton better than cable on demand movies. So if you are satified with that performance, you will be satisfied with the performance of high definition over wirless (with some caveats)

If you have the money to run CAT5 cable from your router to your client computers, then that's the gold standard, but if you live in an area where you don't have alot of other wireless routers that can interfere with your signal, then wireless N is definitely capable.

Something I do want to try in the future is a product by DLink that will be released pretty soon. It allows you to send your routers signal through your preexisting cable wires. This may also be an option for you.

Hrmmm. I appreciate the food for thought.

Anyone with opinions on image/sound quality would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
 
Hrm. What is the fastest wired network I can get?
The fastest network you could get would be 10 gigabit. You don't want one though because the interface cards would cost as much as the rest of the computer, in many cases.

The suggested gigabit network that was suggested is appropriate. I should point out that you need NICs (Network Interface Cards) and at least one switch to support them. If your primary network usage is video, strictly speaking, only the server and the switch need to be gigabit devices. The playback computers could be 100 Mb, as are most of the extender type devices (PS3 supports gigabit, however).

Gigabit interfaces are cheap, so there is little reason to scrimp on them. Further, if you anticipate heavy usage (more than two simultaneous streams) you might want to look at a server class NIC for the server which might set you back a couple of hundred dollars.

Video playback of material originating on optical discs is about having the data available just when it is needed for display. Unlike streaming protocols which use large buffers to prevent problems when something is a bit late, consumer products never have enough RAM to do this, but can depend on very precisely specified characteristics of the optical drive itself.

When you deliver optical media content from a server over a network, you violate the assumptions of the media authoring tools. To make up for that, you need a network with several times the speed nominally required and storage much faster than the original optical drive to compensate for any lost bits, retried packets or retried reads from the server's disk drives.

Wireless networks generally do not have the spare capacity and have much higher error rates than can be tolerated. In spite of this, some people win every time they roll the dice, but the rest of us need wired connections for HD video.

Ideally, you want all the NICs and the switch to support jumbo packets, packets larger than the 1500 or so bytes that was appropriate for 10Mb ethernet 20 years ago. You must configure the computers to use them or the effort is wasted, however.

Also, are there variables that affect image/sounds quality? Such as graphics cards, sound cards, CPUs, etc...? Could a graphics card have better image quality than a lesser graphics card?

Cards can certainly make a difference. If you have really good viewing equipment, you might be able to see the difference between a $100 card an a $300 card when comparing image quality. Or you might not.

What better cards deliver is often less about the pixels displayed, so much as the degree to which they off-load the CPU. Off-loading the CPU is good because it makes the smoothness of your playback less susceptible to disruption when that network or server skips a beat, or Windows starts scratching itself. Effectively, the CPU can catch-up more quickly and skips can be avoided.

It should be noted here that a great gaming card may only be a good HD playback card. Often, a cheaper card with good video acceleration are better, cooler and, importantly, quieter than the more expensive cards. Nvidia's 7600, 8600 and 9600 cards have followed this pattern. Currently, ATI's cards have gained much favor.

By sound quality, I refer to digital sound without any conversions. So, any differences between sounds cards and transfering pure digital sound? I'm looking at the new Auzentech HDMI encoding card coming out in September.

Digital outputs are all the same if they manage to get the bits from one end to the other without error. Unfortunately, there are errors, which often have more to do with the drivers than any expensive hardware. To work right, digital outputs need not be expensive. But the maker of a more expensive card might spend the money to get it done right in software.

At the other end, analog outputs are susceptible to quality issues where improvements are exponentially expensive. The do, however, avoid some of the stupider DRM issues that can make digital solutions so frustrating.

Right now is a fine time to stand back while the dust settles and the prices moderate. If the money is burning a hole, the Auzentech is probably not a bad choice. They have delivered some good cards for home theater usage and will probably make good on the promise of HDMI...eventually. If tinker and tweak are your thing, get in on it early.
 
The fastest network you could get would be 10 gigabit. You don't want one though because the interface cards would cost as much as the rest of the computer, in many cases.

The suggested gigabit network that was suggested is appropriate. I should point out that you need NICs (Network Interface Cards) and at least one switch to support them. If your primary network usage is video, strictly speaking, only the server and the switch need to be gigabit devices. The playback computers could be 100 Mb, as are most of the extender type devices (PS3 supports gigabit, however).

Gigabit interfaces are cheap, so there is little reason to scrimp on them. Further, if you anticipate heavy usage (more than two simultaneous streams) you might want to look at a server class NIC for the server which might set you back a couple of hundred dollars.

Video playback of material originating on optical discs is about having the data available just when it is needed for display. Unlike streaming protocols which use large buffers to prevent problems when something is a bit late, consumer products never have enough RAM to do this, but can depend on very precisely specified characteristics of the optical drive itself.

When you deliver optical media content from a server over a network, you violate the assumptions of the media authoring tools. To make up for that, you need a network with several times the speed nominally required and storage much faster than the original optical drive to compensate for any lost bits, retried packets or retried reads from the server's disk drives.

Wireless networks generally do not have the spare capacity and have much higher error rates than can be tolerated. In spite of this, some people win every time they roll the dice, but the rest of us need wired connections for HD video.

Ideally, you want all the NICs and the switch to support jumbo packets, packets larger than the 1500 or so bytes that was appropriate for 10Mb ethernet 20 years ago. You must configure the computers to use them or the effort is wasted, however.



Cards can certainly make a difference. If you have really good viewing equipment, you might be able to see the difference between a $100 card an a $300 card when comparing image quality. Or you might not.

What better cards deliver is often less about the pixels displayed, so much as the degree to which they off-load the CPU. Off-loading the CPU is good because it makes the smoothness of your playback less susceptible to disruption when that network or server skips a beat, or Windows starts scratching itself. Effectively, the CPU can catch-up more quickly and skips can be avoided.

It should be noted here that a great gaming card may only be a good HD playback card. Often, a cheaper card with good video acceleration are better, cooler and, importantly, quieter than the more expensive cards. Nvidia's 7600, 8600 and 9600 cards have followed this pattern. Currently, ATI's cards have gained much favor.



Digital outputs are all the same if they manage to get the bits from one end to the other without error. Unfortunately, there are errors, which often have more to do with the drivers than any expensive hardware. To work right, digital outputs need not be expensive. But the maker of a more expensive card might spend the money to get it done right in software.

At the other end, analog outputs are susceptible to quality issues where improvements are exponentially expensive. The do, however, avoid some of the stupider DRM issues that can make digital solutions so frustrating.

Right now is a fine time to stand back while the dust settles and the prices moderate. If the money is burning a hole, the Auzentech is probably not a bad choice. They have delivered some good cards for home theater usage and will probably make good on the promise of HDMI...eventually. If tinker and tweak are your thing, get in on it early.

Exactly what I wanted to hear, thanks!

Hrm, so your saying I don't need the $500 GTX 280. :) I kind of figured the 9600 would be good.
 
Exactly what I wanted to hear, thanks!

Hrm, so your saying I don't need the $500 GTX 280. :) I kind of figured the 9600 would be good.
In fact, the 8500gt, and 8600gt(s) are the best fit for the purpose. they are the only ones that are garanteed to support important decoding features for hi-def videos, like IDCT, CAVLC and CABAC. See this document. As you see almost all nvidia chips have a kind of "decode acceleration" but this thing is solely absolutely worthless for current cpus without support for the codings.

until last week i had a 6600gt and some movies like transformers only perfomed like a kind of slide show, with a 3ghz p4. this week i switched to an 8600gts and now it's all totaly smooth. h.264 decodes at 20 - 30 % cpu load.
so it's enough to have even a single core cpu at 2 ghz now.
 
If you want to go on the cheap with HDMI out, I recommend the ATI 2600 Pro. It has an onboard 5.1 audio processor so you dont even need a sound card in your pc, HDMI out, decodes everything I have thrown at it with zero stutter over my network, and cost 25 dollars after a 10 dollar rebate from my local store.
 
OK- couple quick questions.

I plan on turning all of my Blu-Ray discs in to ISOs on a server that could be accessed from any TV in my house.

#1) Is an ISO copy quality the exact same as putting a Blu-Ray disc in your drive and watching it that way?

#2) Will the network be fast enough? I will try to have it be wired.

Any help would be appreciated! Thanks. :)

I use a PS3 to serve my HDTV (Samsung HLR6168W). In my testing, for proof of viability, I used a 100Mbs ethernet card (on my HTPC) going through a similar 100Mbs switch. Using this setup, I was quite able to stream two HD videos simultaineously to the PS3 and my desktop. The serving computer NIC was only running about 75% capacity. Since then, I've canabalized my HTPC which never did serve my purposes very well. I then built a new network/media server with one of those cute LIL mini-itx motherboards with passive cooling. This computer is silent. The only moving parts are the hards drives. That motherboard features twin Gigabit ethernet ports. I've also upgraded to an Gigabit ethernet switch. The server needn't have hardly any video capability unless you intend to use that computer to directly send a signal to your TV.

As an aside, One of my desktop computers has an ATI HD2600XT card and the other has GeForce 8600GT. Both with 256M DDR3. Performance testing has shown these 2 cards to be virtually equal in performance and indestinguishable running BD (or HD DVD for that matter).

Also, I've tried to use a PreN bridge to stream HD video from my desktop via PreN router. It's almost there, but not quite. I still get dropouts and it's just not comfortable to watch. And that was with just one video stream.

While I can't argue that an ISO on a server has more versatility than the files I have to use to stream to a PS3, I would suggest that rather than build the necessary HTPC computers to display on each individual TV you might want to consider a HD media streamer (such as a PS3) and just implement a file/media server such as I use. At just $400 a pop, PS3s may be cheaper to implement than several HTPCs.

Of course, having said that, you'd need a fairly powerful computer to do the necessay conversions on some BD titles to make them streamable to the PS3. Also, some comercial software would make the process somewhat more convenient. Specificly, I find NERO8 with HD plugin to be indespensable. I also use Twonky Media server on my file/media server for its sheer ease of use. Although, you could use Tversity as a no cost option.

My file\media server is always on, but the hards drives go to sleep when not in use. In this state, the server only uses 7 watts of juice. Internally, I use a notebook type 2.5" hard drive (160Gb) as a file server. Externally, I use a thermaltake BlacX eSATA hard drive dock as the media drive. Currently, I have 2 500Gb SATA2 hard drives which I can swap out similarly to 8 track tapes. I wish I could hot swap them, and in my next iteration of a media server I will try harder, but I can't currently. I still have to power down the server to swap drives.

One final note. While some folks seems to have a hard time getting HD video to stream from their PS3s, I've been doing it for months now and have yet to find a BD or HD DVD that I couldn't get to work. Sometimes it ain't easy, but it's doable. Although, I have to admit the PS3 doesn't like to stream lossless audio. I usually have to live with DD5.1 @640Kbs. Which is still pretty good, but not quite as good as lossless codecs. The tools necessary to do the conversions are still young and will only get better over time.
 
I would readily admit that the ideal situation is to have a CAT5 wired network. However, don't dismiss wireless just yet. I initially thought that wireless was insufficient for high definition until i did some research on "best practices" for setting up a high definition wireless network.

My network consists of a 5Tb server connected to a DIR-655 DLink router that feeds 2 wireless clients and 1 wired client. I would consider the performance of high definition playback very good. I only get 1 or at the most 2 quick studders when watching a movie (lasting 1 or 2 seconds in duration). This is most likely from interference as the bandwith is more than capable to handle the high bit rate of Blu Ray media. Just rewinding a couple seconds always takes care of it. i would say that my viewing experience with a wireless is a ton better than cable on demand movies. So if you are satified with that performance, you will be satisfied with the performance of high definition over wirless (with some caveats)

If you have the money to run CAT5 cable from your router to your client computers, then that's the gold standard, but if you live in an area where you don't have alot of other wireless routers that can interfere with your signal, then wireless N is definitely capable.

Something I do want to try in the future is a product by DLink that will be released pretty soon. It allows you to send your routers signal through your preexisting cable wires. This may also be an option for you.


First off, again as posted in other threads. You DO NOT need a gigabit network. While some home routers/switches say they run gigabit, that is not true. It is a marketing campaign. Wireless unless you want hiccups and brief stalls, is not the way to go. For some thats fine, It would drive me nuts.


Second off, its not CAT 5. Cat 5 only supports up to 100Mbps bursts. It does not support 100Mps sustained. CAT 5e does this, and can support 1000 Mbps bursts. Cat 6 which is what I have through out the house supports 1000mpbs sustained, and 10,000 mbps bursts. Make sure you buy the right stuff, or its just a waste of your money.

I have been designing datacenters and coporate buildings for a long time. It can be painful to learn the hard way.
 
First off, again as posted in other threads. You DO NOT need a gigabit network. While some home routers/switches say they run gigabit, that is not true. It is a marketing campaign. Wireless unless you want hiccups and brief stalls, is not the way to go. For some thats fine, It would drive me nuts.

Second off, its not CAT 5. Cat 5 only supports up to 100Mbps bursts. It does not support 100Mps sustained. CAT 5e does this, and can support 1000 Mbps bursts. Cat 6 which is what I have through out the house supports 1000mpbs sustained, and 10,000 mbps bursts. Make sure you buy the right stuff, or its just a waste of your money.

I have been designing datacenters and coporate buildings for a long time. It can be painful to learn the hard way.

100BASE-T runs full duplex on CAT 5, as designed. Installed properly, it does so within specified error rates up to 100 meters. Half-duplex or full-duplex are meaningful terms in this context. There are no specifications for 'burst' capability in the Ethernet specifications, nor even in the wire-makers dreams because burst or continuous does not matter. Communications wires do not have a duty cycle spec either.

1000BASE-T was designed to run on CAT 5 at the same 100 meters. It does run on CAT 5. Does it run for longer lengths on CAT 5e or CAT 6? Sure. Are the error rates lower at the extremes of length? Sure. Would I use them in a new installation? Sure. Would I replace CAT 5 just for 1000BASE-T? Hell, no.

Only if the error rates become significant (all computers retain counts of errors that you can view if you know where to look) would I pull more wire.

The wiring in the wall is often one of the most expensive parts of anyone's network infrastructure. To speed acceptance, standard protocols are designed to run on what you got rather than the latest thing the wire manufacturers are selling. By and large, they work as designed.

Don't get carried away by the wire marketing hype that you recognized so quickly in the wireless case.
 
First off, again as posted in other threads. You DO NOT need a gigabit network. While some home routers/switches say they run gigabit, that is not true. It is a marketing campaign. Wireless unless you want hiccups and brief stalls, is not the way to go. For some thats fine, It would drive me nuts.


Second off, its not CAT 5. Cat 5 only supports up to 100Mbps bursts. It does not support 100Mps sustained. CAT 5e does this, and can support 1000 Mbps bursts. Cat 6 which is what I have through out the house supports 1000mpbs sustained, and 10,000 mbps bursts. Make sure you buy the right stuff, or its just a waste of your money.

I have been designing datacenters and coporate buildings for a long time. It can be painful to learn the hard way.

Well, its nice to know that experts visit this forum also. Give me the chance to learn new terms:D Look, i won't even try entering into a gray matter competition here. I don't know everything there is to know about wired/wireless/etc. I used the term CAT5 because that what i've heard mostly. Should i have said CAT6.:eek: I guess. I'm sure i would have found that out as I did research if that is the direction that i would go. It's not however the direction i have the funds to take, so i'll give you that i don't currently know what i would have to find out if i WAS actually about to wire my house with CAT6:D.

Anyways, my knowledge comes from basically two places, what websites i can google and after i've gained enough knowledge to know what questions to ask, from actually purchasing the equipment. Will I purchase something that doesn't live up to expectations. Sure i will (take ethernet over powerline for instance, definitely can't stream HD:disagree:). But 99% percent of the time, i'm not disappointed because i've learned what to expect with the technology that i purchase. Sure, marketers can lie, but you have to decide to believe somebody otherwise, why purchase at all.

Now this seems like a wired crowd, but my previous posts about wireless come from actual experience wirelessly streaming HD video, not from what i've heard or what i think should be, but from actual, real world tests. And what i find is that the current wireless N standard DOES have the realworld throughput (if certain conditions are met) to stream high definition media (Blu Ray, HD DVD). Of course, its susceptible to interference that can affect throughput. This is why i've done as much research as I can on how to set up my router, wireless cards, etc to get the best possible scenario.

Now maybe I just got the good stuff (DLink-655 router and DWA-552 adapters using the ANT24-0230 extreme antennae on the adapters. Whatever, but this setup works. And I was truthful that you can get pauses. I get some occasionally, but not enough to make it a deal breaker and definitely not enough to not make movie watching unenjoyable. I wouldn't call one studder that lasts only one second something enough to drive me crazy. Now granted, i make sure i pause the move if i want to pop a bag of popcorn, but the move is playable folks.

The reason i'm trying to stress the point is because i thought that's what the original poster was asking about. From his response, i guess not. But the second is that someone might be reading this and wanting to set up a wireless system to stream hd media and think it's not doable. I simply say it is and if you don't have the hundreds of dollars (possible thousands if done professionally with reconstruction), then i would say that it is even the way to go.

And granted, when i say I stream hd wirelessly, that is not technically correct. I save my movies as ISOs on a computer that i use as a server and i've made the drive shareable so that my playback software located on the client pcs(PowerDVD, MyMovies, etc) can use the files on the server. I guess you would call that filesharing more than streaming.

Having said all that, i will be trying ethernet over coax cable when DLink makes that available in September. Until then however, i'll be enjoying my wireless.
 
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100BASE-T runs full duplex on CAT 5, as designed. Installed properly, it does so within specified error rates up to 100 meters. Half-duplex or full-duplex are meaningful terms in this context. There are no specifications for 'burst' capability in the Ethernet specifications, nor even in the wire-makers dreams because burst or continuous does not matter. Communications wires do not have a duty cycle spec either.

1000BASE-T was designed to run on CAT 5 at the same 100 meters. It does run on CAT 5. Does it run for longer lengths on CAT 5e or CAT 6? Sure. Are the error rates lower at the extremes of length? Sure. Would I use them in a new installation? Sure. Would I replace CAT 5 just for 1000BASE-T? Hell, no.

Only if the error rates become significant (all computers retain counts of errors that you can view if you know where to look) would I pull more wire.

The wiring in the wall is often one of the most expensive parts of anyone's network infrastructure. To speed acceptance, standard protocols are designed to run on what you got rather than the latest thing the wire manufacturers are selling. By and large, they work as designed.

Don't get carried away by the wire marketing hype that you recognized so quickly in the wireless case.


Are you kidding me? I design it and rate it for datacenters. Trust me, I know the difference.
 
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