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Backup Disc of Disney "UP" can't replay correctly

jinjin_jp said:
I'll post again, because original post is closed.
http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=49248

@James


I'll tested ver.6.8.0.5, but the problem is remain.

The second angle is not removed.
There short part is repeated then paused for a while.

Regards.
Click to expand...
Oh, this is odd. Probably not such an easy fix as I thought. But if older versions behave the same, I wonder why nobody noticed. I don't have the Japanese disc, but the US disc should behave the same (it has three angles with very small cells <= 3000ms).
 
Frank said:
James - we've have this movie in support and here in the past and this kind of thing did not surface to the best of my knowledge
Click to expand...


I'm not sure how many people ever try to play "angle two" ??

-W
 
hmmm....

Clams said:
I'm not sure how many people ever try to play "angle two" ??

-W
Click to expand...

You may well be right..... But this was extremely popular and got a LOT of attention here and in Support so I was just going with the numbers. 8)
 
Because the other angles are other language. You will not see Spanish version, and I prefer the Spanish version, that is a different angle then English part. The native language (English) is angle 1. So the native English speakers will not care about the other languages and viceversa
 
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I additionally examined other DVD.
I suppose the problem occurs when not divided the cell of angle-2.

A."UP"
the prblematic 5 cells are below.
(1)playback time is 3.00sec, not devided =>problem
(2)playback time is 3.10sec, not devided =>problem
(3)playback time is 4.00sec, not devided =>problem
(4)playback time is 3.00sec, not devided =>problem
(5)playback time is 3.00sec, not devided =>problem

I examined other DVDs which is multi-angle and have multiangle-cell of 4sec>.
DVDs except for below example have the cell of longer playback time.

B."CARS"
(1)playback time is 3.09sec, devided to 3 =>no problem
(2)playback time is 2.16sec, devided to 2 =>no problem
(3)playback time is 3.25sec, devided to 4 =>no problem
(4)playback time is 2.14sec, devided to 2 =>no problem
---It didn't use AnyDVD but RipIt4Me, so this time I re-backuped with using AnyDVD. The result was same

C."the Beauty and the Beast"
(1)playback time is 3.25sec, devided to 4 =>no problem
(2)playback time is 2.05sec, devided to 2 =>no problem

D."Toy Story 3"
(1)playback time is 4.05sec, not devided =>problem
(2)playback time is 3.04sec, not devided =>problem
(3)playback time is 3.15sec, not devided =>problem
(4)playback time is 3.05sec, not devided =>problem
(5)playback time is 3.25sec, devided to 2 =>no problem

E."Lion King 3"
(1)playback time is 1.16sec, devided to 2
(2)playback time is 2.14sec, devided to 2
It didn't confirmed, because I removed multi-angle when made backup disc.
(Angle-2 is not main-movie but extras, so which angle is replayed is not depend on audio.)

From above, the cells which are devided have know problem, even though its playback time is short.
"D" is especially interesting, devided 3.25sec cell has no proplem, but not-devided 4.05sec cell has the problem.

Regards.
 
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jinjin_jp said:
From above, the cells which are devided have know problem, even though its playback time is short.
"D" is especially interesting, devided 3.25sec cell has no proplem, but not-devided 4.05sec cell has the problem.
Regards.
Click to expand...

Could you please elaborate, how you conclude there is a "problem"? Have you tried these backups with your DVD player? If yes, which AnyDVD version did you use to create the backup discs?
 
James said:
Could you please elaborate, how you conclude there is a "problem"? Have you tried these backups with your DVD player? If yes, which AnyDVD version did you use to create the backup discs?
Click to expand...
Here is details.

I happenned to find the problem, when replaying backup disc in the purpose of confirming about the question in Japanese forum.
I picked up "UP" and "TOY STORY 3" which I made backup before.
Then I noticed both pause in some points when replaying by DVD player.
My usual method of backup is "only main-movie" and "remain multi-angle without prohibition of changing angle". Its method is restricted because almost softwares remove multi-angle without full-disc, remain PUO of changing angle. Only AnyDVD and DVDFab are able to rip bad-sector protection of these DVDs.
"UP"
*AnyDVD 6.6.3.8beta ---output ISO file
*DaemonTools 4.3.0.0 ---mount ISO file
*RipIt4Me 1.7.1.0 --- Movie & Menu mode which can remove PUO of changing angle.
*CloneDVD 2.9.2.7 ---only main-movie with multi-angle, remove needless audio/subpicture, no compression.
*DVDShrink 3.2 --- compression(full-disc mode)
*PgcEdit 9.2 --- edit IFO(setting default audio/subpicture/angle)
*ImgBurn 2.5.1.0 --- burning, build mode
"TOY STORY 3"
*AnyDVD 6.7.1.7beta ---output VIDEO TS folder(files)
*CloneDVD 2.9.2.8 ---only main-movie with multi-angle, remove needless
*PgcEdit 9.3 --- remove PUO of changing angle, edit IFO(setting default audio/subpicture/angle)
*DVDShrink 3.2 --- compression(full-disc mode)
*ImgBurn 2.5.2.0 --- burning, build mode

I examined more detailes about "UP" by replaying backup disc by DVD player.
DVD player is Panasonic DMR-BW680.
There short part is repeated then paused for a while.
There are 5 problematic points, these are always same point.
The problem is only when replaying angle-2, bot no problem when angle-1.
Purchased original disc doesn't have such problem.

I examined IFO about these 5 points by IfoEdit, and found they have common features.
*These are all just before multi-angle cell which is very short (4sec>).
*Seeing VTS_C_ADT, each of multi-angle cell is not divided and consist of only 1 cell. I've never seen such multi-angle cell, I thought are usually divided alternative small cells.

Befor I post this Forum, I confirmed with latest AnyDVD version and without other software as simply as possible.
"UP"
*AnyDVD 6.8.5.0 ---work in background
*CloneDVD 2.9.3.0 ---full-disc mode, compression.
*ImgBurn 2.5.5.0 --- burning, build mode
The problem of result is complete same.

Regards.
 
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I additionally tested.
I buned to DVD+R DL without compression.
When using ISO, there is no trouble.

DVD title : "UP" as same as before
(1)=>no trouble
*AnyDVD 6.8.5.0 ---work in background
*DVDDcrypter 3.5.4.0 --- ISO mode, output ISO file
*ImgBurn 2.5.5.0 --- burning ISO file
(2)=>no trouble
*AnyDVD 6.8.5.0 --- output ISO file
*CloneDVD 2.9.3.0 --- burning ISO file
(3)=>there is trouble
*AnyDVD 6.8.5.0 ---output VIDEO_TS folder(files)
*ImgBurn 2.5.5.0 ---Build mode, burning VIDEO_TS folder(files)
(4)=>there is trouble
*AnyDVD 6.8.5.0 --- output ISO file
*DaemonTools 4.4.1.3 ---mount ISO file for CloneDVD, there is VIDEO_TS folder(files)
*CloneDVD 2.9.3.0 --- burning VIDEO_TS folder(files)

When using ISO, there is no trouble.
Backup disc from VIDEO_TS folder(files) is removed needless parts and the size of VIDEO_TS folder is 6.96GB which is less than DL disc size.
Backup disc from ISO remains large VTS files exept for main-movie and etc., so the size of VIDEO_TS foler is 58.8 GB which can't be treated.
I suppose someting is removed when not ISO.
It may be some new trick protection.

Regards.
 
i see in a few of those options tyou're ouputting to an iso for a dvd, that is something you're not supposed to do. Rememeber the big warning box you get ?
 
Ch3vr0n said:
i see in a few of those options tyou're ouputting to an iso for a dvd, that is something you're not supposed to do. Rememeber the big warning box you get ?
Click to expand...

Do you mean warning when ISO output is related with the problem?
I think it is opposite. Because when using ISO file there is no problem, but when using VIDEO_TS files there is this problem.

I got waring as you say when output ISO.
I've known this warning from before.
So it is only one time that I've ever used ISO which AnyDVD outputs. And one of the reason that I did the test of ISO at end.

Anyway, here is the warning
The "rip to image" function you are performing is intended for use with imaging tools like Virtual CloneDrive.
If you want to process the disc with 3rd party tools (e.g., DVD Shrink) you should use the "rip video DVD to harddisk" function instead.
Click to expand...
Dou you mean this warning?

Regards.
 
Did you try to create a ISO image with Imgburn or any other third party software?
 
yeah i ment that warning. I didnt say it WAS the problem, i ment it could be a contributing factor. The ISO rip leaves among others structural protection on a dvd intact while ripping to files removes it.
 
Ch3vr0n said:
yeah i ment that warning. I didnt say it WAS the problem, i ment it could be a contributing factor.
Click to expand...


A contributing factor to what exactly?
One of the oddities of this issue - is that the ISO worked fine.

-W
 
I know that different people looking at a problem can be useful in that sometimes a person might see something that others don't but let's not have this turn into a situation where there are too many cooks in the kitchen. jinjin_jp has reported issues before that have been resolved and James is aware of the problem and has asked some questions and asked for clarification. Let's not distract the conversation from that and simply make things more confusing and disjointed.
 
@DrinkLyeAndDie

Thanks for advise.

jinjin_jp has reported issues before that have been resolved
Click to expand...

I don't recognize that the issue is resolved yet.
Because the method which doesn't have the problem requires only full-disc backup and dual-layer maedia.
I've continued to examine now.
But I can't find its trick yet.

Here is the test which I didn't reported, though failured.

(1)I doubt the influence of the removed cells of beginning in main-movie.
So I tryed to add the cells which is corresponding.
Procedure;
*AnyDVD 6.8.5.0 ---work in background
*CloneDVD 2.9.3.0 ---full-disc mode, compression.
*PgcEdit 9.3 ---add cells in begining of main-movie, edit cell-type, and add cell-command as same as original.
*IfoEdit 9.71 ---edit playback time of each cell, which is as same as original.
*ImgBurn 2.5.5.0 --- burning, build mode
But the result was failure. The problem was not fixd.
(Later it is found that there is no trouble even if these cells are removed when using ISO.)

Next as posted in #29, it is found that backup disc with using ISO doesn't have the problem.
So I compare between backup disc with using ISO and one without it.
At first I doubt that someting is removed when not ISO.
But it was not confirmed.
I compared how navigated by PgcEdit's trace-mode.
The result was that both are comletely as same as.

(2)I found that TMAPTI(TimeMap table) is different between both, and doubted.
Each cell has one or more entry at sector. (It can see by IfoEdt.)
One of entry of each cell is discontinuity entry.
**backup with using ISO ---last entry of cell is discontinuity entry. It is same as original.
**backup without using ISO ---first entry of cell is discontinuity entry. It is different from original.
I tryed to edit TMAPTI(TimeMap table). It is possible to PgcEdit's function "rebuilde time maps".
Procedure;
*AnyDVD 6.8.5.0 ---work in background
*CloneDVD 2.9.3.0 ---full-disc mode, compression.
*PgcEdit 9.3 ---rebuiled Timemap table
*ImgBurn 2.5.5.0 --- burning, build mode
But the result was failure. The problem was not fixd.

It is difficult the reason of the problem.

Regards.
 
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@Clams
@DrinkLyeAndDie

Sorry, I misunderstood English.
Now I can understand correctly.
Thanks very much.

Regards.
 
I added tests.
But the reson of problem can't be found yet.

(A) I doubt the difference of VOB itself, (even though navigation command and relative adress of cell are same).
I extracted problematic multi-angle cell by PgcDemux v.1.2.0.5 from backup discs. The discs are both of problematic and not so and which are (1) and (3) from I posted #29 like below.
DVD title : "UP" as same as before
(1)=>no trouble
*AnyDVD 6.8.5.0 ---work in background
*DVDDcrypter 3.5.4.0 --- ISO mode, output ISO file
*ImgBurn 2.5.5.0 --- burning ISO file
(3)=>there is trouble
*AnyDVD 6.8.5.0 ---output VIDEO_TS folder(files)
*ImgBurn 2.5.5.0 ---Build mode, burning VIDEO_TS folder(files)
Click to expand...
I compared extracted files by binary editor (stirs v.1.31).
The result was they were same.

(B) Next I doubt absolute posittion (LBA) in the disc. It is different between problematic and not so. It is found to be 9376 sectors.
I adjusted sectors by creating gap (104168 sectors) before VTS_19_0.BUP, because main-movie which has problematic cells is VTS_20.
Procedure;
*AnyDVD 6.8.5.0 ---output VIDEO_TS folder(files)
*IfoEdt 0.971 ---edit VIDEO_TS.IFO and VTS_19_0.IFO for creating gap.
*RecordNow 7.21 --- burning VIDEO_TS folder(files). I used instead of ImgBurn, because it can create gap in disc according to IFO file though ImgBurn edit IFO file and remove gap.
The result was that the problem was not fixed.

How about the fix of the problem by author ?
Is it very difficult ?

Regards.
 
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