AI Scanner

[mike20021969]

now that the AI Scanner has been out for a good while now,i was just wondering whether or not it is as successful as what was hoped for? (maybe slysoft team could input here).
there still seem to be 'regular (+beta)' updates.
obviously it is a 'new' technology and teething problems are only to be expected then ironed out.
is it possible (or expected) that AnyDVD+AI Scanner together will become so "intelligent" that it will be able to combat new protection methods without the need for ANY updates whatsoever?
wouldn't it be fantastic if AnyDVD could handle ANY DVD you could throw at it,either today or in the future :clap:

 

[Webslinger]

.
is it possible (or expected) that AnyDVD+AI Scanner together will become so "intelligent" that it will be able to combat new protection methods without the need for ANY updates whatsoever?

I sincerely doubt it based on my observations concerning present and past programs that center around the same concept (but maybe I'm pessimistic).

 

[plato]

I actually can not understand the sense of AI scanner as it was supposed to relieve the programmers of some of their work but obviously it is still necessary to release beta versions...
From my point of view I would say that the AI scanner can be abolished.

 

[mike20021969]

i'm sortta hoping that one day AnyDVD will be able to make a pc's dvd drive look at dvd exactly the same way a dvd player does - surely this is possible?
then the ONLY thing that needs taking care of is CSS.
all these fancy protections they put on dvd's dont 'seem' to affect standalones (or only a very very small % of them).

 

[fordman]

I actually can not understand the sense of AI scanner as it was supposed to relieve the programmers of some of their work but obviously it is still necessary to release beta versions...
From my point of view I would say that the AI scanner can be abolished.

I am going to reserve judgement on the possible abolishment of the AI Scanner, but I and others have expressed concerns about the recurring deletion or truncation of valid titles that the AI Scanner has been doing since it's introduction. It seems that it happens with each week's new releases, though until the January 1st releases, it seemed to have dropped off - an indication that the AI Scanner was maturing.

One user who suggested the AI Scanner be removed pointed out that before its introduction, AnyDVD either worked or it didn't, and then an update would be released if it didn't. However the user never needed to worry about getting a corrupt copy, and didn't need to watch all the titles completely to ensure that the rip was good before burning.

That said, the other program on the market that employs a similar strategy is also having growing pains with their DVD analysis feature. However I've noticed that it is more conservative and will usually automatically conclude that the feature is not needed and will auto-disable it, even on most of the new titles, thereby resulting in a good rip. One example is the region 1 WAR that was just released, though Webslinger pointed out that AnyDVD users can get this title to work by disabling AI Scanner. It might be nice if AnyDVD was able to determine if the AI Scanner was needed, and to disable it if not...

 

[Charlie]

Here's my concept of it.

AnyDVD just worked great without it. I still love the anydvd logs etc but the scanner has shown that there is too many variables to consider it seems? I hate to see AnyDVD turn out like the third part where there is a freaking beta everyday basically as when one issue is fixed it damaged an older title. It really was a great ideal and only James can really have anything to say to clear this thread up but I think it worked better before the AI Scanner as well.

James care to take a stab at what's going on?

 

[Webslinger]

From my point of view I would say that the AI scanner can be abolished.

No. It can't. Otherwise, you won't be able to read some discs that contain severe structural protections.

 

[Webslinger]

I am going to reserve judgement on the possible abolishment of the AI Scanner

I doubt it will ever be "abolished". Some discs simply can't be read properly without the AI scanner.

but I and others have expressed concerns about the recurring deletion or truncation of valid titles that the AI Scanner has been doing since it's introduction

All programs that have been built around a similar concept require(d) constant updates (one of those programs is, of course, dead).

One user who suggested the AI Scanner be removed pointed out that before its introduction, AnyDVD either worked or it didn't, and then an update would be released if it didn't. However the user never needed to worry about getting a corrupt copy, and didn't need to watch all the titles completely to ensure that the rip was good before burning.

I could be wrong, but I suspect some discs simply can't be read properly without using the concept of the AI scanner.

It might be nice if AnyDVD was able to determine if the AI Scanner was needed, and to disable it if not...

If you need to disable it, then a bug exists that needs to be addressed (consequently, there will be an update to address the problem with "War"). In fact, the A.I. scanner is only active when a structural protection is present on the disc.

 

[James]

I am going to reserve judgement on the possible abolishment of the AI Scanner, but I and others have expressed concerns about the recurring deletion or truncation of valid titles that the AI Scanner has been doing since it's introduction. It seems that it happens with each week's new releases, though until the January 1st releases, it seemed to have dropped off - an indication that the AI Scanner was maturing.

The 6.3.0.4 & 6.3.0.5 betas have bugs, which have been removed.

One user who suggested the AI Scanner be removed pointed out that before its introduction, AnyDVD either worked or it didn't, and then an update would be released if it didn't. However the user never needed to worry about getting a corrupt copy, and didn't need to watch all the titles completely to ensure that the rip was good before burning.

That said, the other program on the market that employs a similar strategy is also having growing pains with their DVD analysis feature. However I've noticed that it is more conservative and will usually automatically conclude that the feature is not needed and will auto-disable it, even on most of the new titles, thereby resulting in a good rip. One example is the region 1 WAR that was just released, though Webslinger pointed out that AnyDVD users can get this title to work by disabling AI Scanner. It might be nice if AnyDVD was able to determine if the AI Scanner was needed, and to disable it if not...

The approach of the "other program" is somewhat "short sighted", as you can easily construct copy protections where pathplayer is always required, and will fall flat on its nose.
AI scanner is working extremely well and extremely fast for what it does. The latest "performance tweaking" I have done simply had some undesired side effects. The betas showed this (that's what beta versions are made for).

 

[Charlie]

Thanks for the info Webslinger and James.

 

[tebugg]

i would like to point out that i think the AI scanner is workin better than i thought it would. take shoot'em up for example, without anydvd havin the AI scanner, noone would be able to make a copy of that dvd right now, but instead we found out that an earlier version of anydvd that has the AI scanner which set at deep scan can indeed allow u to make a complete backup of the dvd. in that aspect alone, AI scanner has proved its worth.

 

[fordman]

The 6.3.0.4 & 6.3.0.5 betas have bugs, which have been removed.


The approach of the "other program" is somewhat "short sighted", as you can easily construct copy protections where pathplayer is always required, and will fall flat on its nose.
AI scanner is working extremely well and extremely fast for what it does. The latest "performance tweaking" I have done simply had some undesired side effects. The betas showed this (that's what beta versions are made for).

Thanks for the good info, James and Webslinger. I must admit that I was wondering if the introduction of the AI scanner had made the "old" method obsolete, meaning that development of the old protection removal algorithm had ceased and all new code for removal of emerging protections was being moved into the AI Scanner portion of the code. The fact that disabling the AI Scanner will not always work indicates that either this is true, or that the old method was not sophisticated enough to handle the newer protection types. I think this is what you are also saying about the pathplayer needing to be used in some cases, thus causing it to fail. However, since you can force the use of pathplayer, I assume one could do so once you see it fail, assuming pathplayer has been updated to handle the new protection. This would sort of be the opposite approach that we are using with AnyDVD where it is always enabled, and one disables it if problems are encountered....if that is true, then the difference in approach is of little consequence. After I saw the issues with War and Shoot 'Em Up were the result of an accidental bug introduced beginning in 6.3.0.4, I admit I was a bit hesitant to trust AnyDVD, and therefore defaulted to my less-preferred DVDFab Platinum backup solution, which worked fine.

Bugs aside, perhaps we are unfairly faulting the AI Scanner as the source of the problems that seem to be more prevalent. If the AI Scanner is absolutely needed to handle these new schemes, then the "fault" lies with the apparent robustness of the new protection schemes. Now that we know that AI Scanner is absolutely needed for new protections we should dispense with suggestions to remove it in a misguided attempt to return to the "good old days" of simple protection.

I trust that Slysoft will keep on top of these protection schemes and is obviously squashing bugs that are introduced. In fact I just upgraded my AnyDVD to AnyDVD HD on December 30th before the switch to the Euro! I don't even have a HD drive for my computer yet, but it seemed like a good investment for future use...

Thanks for your personal attention to detail in these forums.

 

[Webslinger]

One thing to keep in mind is that if Anydvd doesn't detect structural protection, the A.I. scanner isn't even active. On such occasions, disabling or enabling the A.I scanner (in Anydvd's UI) makes no difference.

 

[fordman]

One thing to keep in mind is that if Anydvd doesn't detect structural protection, the A.I. scanner isn't even active. On such occasions, disabling or enabling the A.I scanner (in Anydvd's UI) makes no difference.

Thanks for that additional info, Webslinger. It always seems to activate for me unless the DVD title was only CSS protected. Since the solution for some DVDs was to turn off the AI Scanner (I think Meet the Robinsons was one), and that works, then it seems that some structural protection can still be removed by the old method, and that AI Scanner is overkill in those instances. I suppose further refinement of the scanner analysis code could analyze the type of structure protection to determine whether the AI scanner is really needed...

 

[James]

Thanks for that additional info, Webslinger. It always seems to activate for me unless the DVD title was only CSS protected. Since the solution for some DVDs was to turn off the AI Scanner (I think Meet the Robinsons was one), and that works, then it seems that some structural protection can still be removed by the old method, and that AI Scanner is overkill in those instances. I suppose further refinement of the scanner analysis code could analyze the type of structure protection to determine whether the AI scanner is really needed...

..., but it would quickly lead us where the AI scanner will always be needed.

 

[v1nce]

Is it me or is anydvd with aiscanner slower than when it didn't have it?

 

[DrinkLyeAndDie]

Is it me or is anydvd with aiscanner slower than when it didn't have it?

Depending on the type of protection on the disc it can take longer to scan the disc initially as well, in my experience, as taking slightly longer to rip the disc. The difference in time for me is negligible, however. I am not using anything close to a top-of-the-line system.

 

[Webslinger]

Thanks for that additional info, Webslinger. It always seems to activate for me unless the DVD title was only CSS protected.

If you see something in the Anydvd status screen to the effect that structural protection was found, then the AI scanner is activated. Otherwise, it's not (and fiddling around with AI settings does nothing).

 

[Kallasways]

I really miss the old days when I could just turn on anydvd put a disc in and not have to worry about if this so called stupid intelligence is going to take scenes out or cause some parts of the menu, movie blah blah not to work properly.. now things are so confusing, some movies work with ai on some movies need ai off i mean it really gets tiresome. To save time i usually just come on here read Webslingers awesome sticky on non- working titles with latest builds.

 

[fordman]

I really miss the old days when I could just turn on anydvd put a disc in and not have to worry about if this so called stupid intelligence is going to take scenes out or cause some parts of the menu, movie blah blah not to work properly.. now things are so confusing, some movies work with ai on some movies need ai off i mean it really gets tiresome. To save time i usually just come on here read Webslingers awesome sticky on non- working titles with latest builds.

I agree, but blame the new protection schemes, not AnyDVD. Since most of the new protection schemes require the AI Scanner approach, they wouldn't work with the old approach. So your approach is the best and one I follow. Buy a DVD and then check here to see if I need to make any adjustments to ensure a good backup.