1080 vs 720 vs 540

[DQ]

I did some testing recently ,I realize much of this depends on the source material, but I am somewhat shocked how (given regular TV shows, and stuff that is not brand new) how there is not as much difference between 1080 and 720 as I thought.

This came up in my head recently because I noticed that about an hour of 1080 is about 5gb whereas 720 is about 1.5GB. That's a tremendous difference over 100+ episodes.

I think there is a whole conversation to be had around whether a little less quality is worth far less storage space (which basically boils down to a cost thing). I think that discussion is different when it comes to a movie vs. a show with 100+ episodes.

I have found that 540 is not bad when it comes to older stuff (70s/80s/90s) as well because much of that era is only in 480 anyway.

Anyways, just found that interesting. If anyone is curious I did go 720.

 

[Water Faucet]

What I am learning is that it depends on how well the transfer of the original material was done. I have been downloading a lot of older (80's into early 90's) TV shows and 1280x720 is actually very good for that era. For example, M*A*S*H in 720p is actually pretty darn good (considering the original air dates and film stock of the source material). I am also downloading Cheers right now, and it is 960x720 (not letterbox, sized for a TV from the 80's) and it looks pretty good, considering the time frame. Even some of the old Perry Mason episodes I am getting (B&W) are great, all at less than HD quality. For many of these older series, I calculate the need for better resolution vs. the amount of storage needed for hundreds of episodes. Then make a decision by testing a few episodes in different resolutions and choose the best to fit my needs.

 

[VonB.]

There's too many variables to consider outside of the technical, including, but not limited to vision impairment, size of display, distance from display, lighting, display placement, etc.

When I first started taking digital pictures back in the early 90's, I was happy with a 1MP camera. Now, when I look at those pictures, I'm saddened at the lack of quality. Those are snapshots of memories that I'll never be able to get a better version of. The low resolution just doesn't cut it. Images I've scanned in from older film cameras are much better than those old, yet original, grainy images from that 1PM camera.

When I first started building my video library in the mid to late 90's, I was content with ripping my DVD's (@540) as those were good enough and better than VHS and TV at the time. Now, I can't replace those 540p videos fast enough. I only have about 15 - 20 more 540p movies to replace, and I fear most of them don't even have full HD versions (Jackass, Eddie Murphy Delirious, etc.). Currently, I desire full HD for a movie or tv show, and prefer UHD for the high-end movies. I don't want to end up being disappointed with 540p knowing that there is better. Heck, there may come a day when full HD isn't enough.

 

[DQ]

What I am learning is that it depends on how well the transfer of the original material was done. I have been downloading a lot of older (80's into early 90's) TV shows and 1280x720 is actually very good for that era. For example, M*A*S*H in 720p is actually pretty darn good (considering the original air dates and film stock of the source material). I am also downloading Cheers right now, and it is 960x720 (not letterbox, sized for a TV from the 80's) and it looks pretty good, considering the time frame. Even some of the old Perry Mason episodes I am getting (B&W) are great, all at less than HD quality. For many of these older series, I calculate the need for better resolution vs. the amount of storage needed for hundreds of episodes. Then make a decision by testing a few episodes in different resolutions and choose the best to fit my needs.

That's actually the process I have started. I was all 1080 at first on some stuff with shows but they were all small amounts of episodes. When you are talking 100+ episodes the storage you can save by dropping to 720 or even 540 is tremendous.

But you are right it depends on the source material much of the time.

 

[Don'tEatYellowSnow]

@DQ - I have pretty much stopped getting 1080 unless it is something that deserves it. Most of my viewing is mass consumption and I am pausing, looking away, having conversations during the viewing.
To us, it is fine to watch stuff in 720 and as you say, the storage requirements are much less ...

 

[Nuffel]

for me personally, 1080 is beyond discussion.
On a big 4K TV or a big screen, you can already see the difference with a purchased bluray.
I find 1080 already hard compressed. I certainly don't want less.
With animation, it's less noticeable.

Therefore, I think 720 is not enough with a view to the future.
And storage costs hardly anything.
18 TB disks. I don't care about 500 GB more make...

Just my 2 cents

 

[VonB.]

What I am learning is that it depends on how well the transfer of the original material was done. I have been downloading a lot of older (80's into early 90's) TV shows and 1280x720 is actually very good for that era. For example, M*A*S*H in 720p is actually pretty darn good (considering the original air dates and film stock of the source material). I am also downloading Cheers right now, and it is 960x720 (not letterbox, sized for a TV from the 80's) and it looks pretty good, considering the time frame. Even some of the old Perry Mason episodes I am getting (B&W) are great, all at less than HD quality. For many of these older series, I calculate the need for better resolution vs. the amount of storage needed for hundreds of episodes. Then make a decision by testing a few episodes in different resolutions and choose the best to fit my needs.

720 is considered HD. Higher than that (up to 1080p) is considered Full HD, and higher than 1080p is considered UHD. At least, that's my understanding of it...

 

[DQ]

There's too many variables to consider outside of the technical, including, but not limited to vision impairment, size of display, distance from display, lighting, display placement, etc.

When I first started taking digital pictures back in the early 90's, I was happy with a 1MP camera. Now, when I look at those pictures, I'm saddened at the lack of quality. Those are snapshots of memories that I'll never be able to get a better version of. The low resolution just doesn't cut it. Images I've scanned in from older film cameras are much better than those old, yet original, grainy images from that 1PM camera.

When I first started building my video library in the mid to late 90's, I was content with ripping my DVD's (@540) as those were good enough and better than VHS and TV at the time. Now, I can't replace those 540p videos fast enough. I have about 15-20 540p movies to replace, and I fear most of them don't even have full HD versions (Jackass, Eddie Murphy Delirious, etc.). Currently, I desire full HD for a movie or tv show, and prefer UHD for the high-end movies. I don't want to end up being disappointed with 540p knowing that there is better. Heck, there may come a day when full HD isn't enough.

Like I mentioned I think movies are a different discussion. The more I like a movie and want to appreciate how it looks (some movies have gorgeous backgrounds and visuals) the more I want it in higher res. I will try to get my most favorite movies in UHD and when I rip those I do so lossless.

But with a huge TV show with many episodes (especially older) the space saved can be HUGE. I mean if cost was no object I would say something different but my NAS is only so big.

Just how I look at it. There are no wrong answers.

 

[DQ]

for me personally, 1080 is beyond discussion.
On a big 4K TV or a big screen, you can already see the difference with a purchased bluray.
I find 1080 already hard compressed. I certainly don't want less.
With animation, it's less noticeable.

Therefore, I think 720 is not enough with a view to the future.
And storage costs hardly anything.
18 TB disks. I don't care about 500 GB more make...

Just my 2 cents

I agree with you on movies. I think different on TV.

And if you think storage costs are nominal then that I have to disagree with that for sure.

Again, there are no wrong answers we all like different stuff.

 

[Nuffel]

Regarding to anystream, so no lossless bluray or UHD rips:
If 1080 is available on Amazon or Netflix doe you guys think that one is better quality in the most cases?
Or the same?

Grt

 

[Water Faucet]

I don't think Hogans Heroes will ever be released on Blu Ray (unless it has already?) I am fine with the handbraked episodes I made from my DVD set...It fits for the time those episodes were made. I also know there are A LOT of poor DVD and BLU RAY movie and TV show transfers. I remember being excited to get my hands on a Highlander Blu Ray, only to find out that transfer was horrible. I think one would need to do a bunch of digital cleaning and other fine tuning to make a lot of older filmed movies into great HD and UHD versions.

 

[JCH.H]

@DQ as a rule of thumb, I am also 720p for shows and older films, 1080p for newer films. There are exceptions, but this is my default setting.

 

[SamuriHL]

As mentioned, there's too many variables. For me, personally, I've always made it my mission for highest quality my equipment allow. At the moment, that's 4K. I have the ability to fairly well upscale 1080->4K so that's not bad. 720->4K is brutal on system resources but can be done. Anything beyond that, FOR ME, is not worth watching on a 4K display unless there's no other option.

But even TV shows....take Game of Thrones. There are some episodes that even 1080p doesn't work well for. (I'm looking at you, season 7 episode 3...). In order to view some of those episodes with even remotely decent quality required a freaking Dolby Vision 4K master. If you tried to watch that at 540 or 720 you'd cry because you'd be missing far too much detail in the episodes. This is not true of all shows.

But for me, I don't waste my time on anything below 1080p for putting on my NAS. It's just not worth it. TO ME.

 

[cartman0208]

@DQ as a rule of thumb, I am also 720p for shows and older films, 1080p for newer films. There are exceptions, but this is my default setting.

I second that.
None of my shows is above 720p, whereas most of the movies are 1080p

 

[ChuckH]

I am tempted to reconsider. I have two televisions that I watch my shows on. The vast majority of the time, I watch on a very small TV were the higher resolution really wouldn't matter. But I also sometimes watch on my large screen at home and the resolution would make a difference. However, I just maxed out one hard drive.

 

[walstib]

blow it up to an 83” OLED. the difference is striking. i didn’t build a home theater to put low quality on it. typically I always buy UHD, then BD, then resort to Anystream if that is all that is left…. but anything less than 1080p, I just don’t bother. I suppose for consumption on small devices, sure, but it’s not just pixel count. colors are far more compressed; black levels are terrible. compression is what it is. but then everyone has their own use cases and quality is subjective.

still want AS to fix the 1080p problem across the board, however I use it so rarely that I can wait as I believe they are indeed working hard on it and buying a perpetual license supports those efforts (happy to do so - have done same with Plex. Emby, JRiver - all great products that are cheap and need our support), even if they prove futile in the end. content wants to be free of DRM shackles! happy to pay for it, not happy to license it for viewing on someone else’s terms.

The cat-n-mouse game will continue in anycase (see what I did there?)

 

[SAF]

for me personally, 1080 is beyond discussion.
On a big 4K TV or a big screen, you can already see the difference with a purchased bluray.
I find 1080 already hard compressed. I certainly don't want less.
With animation, it's less noticeable.

Therefore, I think 720 is not enough with a view to the future.
And storage costs hardly anything.
18 TB disks. I don't care about 500 GB more make...

Just my 2 cents

My thoughts exactly. It's why I signed up for APV in the first place and held off on HULU, etc. I recognize that some older movies have poorer resolution/ quality, but those are what they are. I want to get as closely to the original quality as possible so that they are watchable on my big screens which seem to get diagonally bigger as time goes by.

 

[walstib]

re: above - storage costs - again, that’s subjective to the individual. I’m topping out now close to 500TB, the drive array is almost full, and I’m going to buy another which will fill my half-rack (the array is a 4U). I expect that to grow substantially because the UHD releases keep coming - although I have to import a lot now.

spindle is perfect for media; no need for SSDs. and 10TB server-class drives are not that expensive. couple with SnapRaid and the drives last longer since they can be set to spin down when not used vs say a raid-5 (striping) situation where your drives - all of the in the array - are always spun up!

my problem now is the lack of time to watch it all, but that’ll change when the golden dream of retirement arrives! can’t wait

 

[SAF]

I don't think Hogans Heroes will ever be released on Blu Ray (unless it has already?) I am fine with the handbraked episodes I made from my DVD set...It fits for the time those episodes were made. I also know there are A LOT of poor DVD and BLU RAY movie and TV show transfers. I remember being excited to get my hands on a Highlander Blu Ray, only to find out that transfer was horrible. I think one would need to do a bunch of digital cleaning and other fine tuning to make a lot of older filmed movies into great HD and UHD versions.

Agree and well put, WF. I have the entire Hogan's Heroes in DVD. The quality is extraordinary. Transcribed carefully from good film stock obviously. I also did bump it up to 1080P with VidCoder and it looks great on my biggest 4K TV! There are a lot of bad movie transfers out there but if you want to watch it - it is what it is for now... On the other hand, there are a lot of older films with great video resolution check out Lawrence of Arabia or The Fifth Element, if that is your thing. BTW, I archive all my DVDs and Blu-rays for the enviable future upgrades as the video enhancement software (and my skills hopefully ) improve. After all, 8K's around the corner in a few more years!

Cheers!

 

[DQ]

Most things I watch are for the story or the nostalgia. There are some things I watch because in addition too story they look awesome. Say like "Open Range", "An Unfinished Life" or even "Unforgiven". Those are the things I keep in max res.