DetroitBaseball
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Oh well, the longer I wait, the more revisions are made and such. Getting one of the first players made is unwise.
-
AnyStream is having some DRM issues currently, Netflix is not available in HD for the time being.
Situations like this will always happen with AnyStream: streaming providers are continuously improving their countermeasures while we try to catch up, it's an ongoing cat-and-mouse game. Please be patient and don't flood our support or forum with requests, we are working on it 24/7 to get it resolved. Thank you.
Yo Slysoft Guys...read THIS
- Thread starter SamuriHL
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SamuriHL
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For BluRay, getting a stand alone player now is not a good idea. Wait until November for both price and spec finalization. The PS3 is upgradeable so that's a fine choice if you can afford it. For HD DVD, the spec is finished so find a cheap player that supports HDi and you're good to go.
Give this a look.....
When you go back and look at the number of media formats Sony has tried to bring to market exclusively, the failures are daunting. They included BetaMax, Memory Stick, Universal Media Disc, Mini-Disk, Professional Disk for Data, HiFD, Music Clip and the Super Audio CD. They had one success with the 3.5” floppy drive and negotiated out of the Multi-Media Disk to create the DVD with Toshiba and Phillips. But were this a sport, they would have one early win, seven losses and a tie. If you were a fan of a team with this record you’d be well advised to switch teams.
It is interesting to note, that in all losses, two things were consistently evident, they were more expensive and more restrictive than the other formats. Blu-ray is both more expensive (in terms of players) and more restrictive (you may recall that HP moved to support both formats because of the restrictions) than HD-DVD.
Up until now, Blu-ray has enjoyed one clear advantage; they had more studios exclusively on their side. With this announcement, that one advantage is now significantly offset. One of the things that really makes this interesting it that 300 set HD disk sales records by being on both formats which would suggest Paramount and Dreamworks are foregoing short term gains to solve a strategic problem (that almost never happens).
Cause
So why did Paramount and DreamWorks jump into the HD-DVD Camp? All of the studios agree that there needs to be one standard. They also know that the market for players is driven by price and that the two magic numbers are $200 and $100 for players - and if folks don’t have players they don’t buy disks.
This means the first player to get below $200 will be the most likely to sell enough to finally justify the switch from standard DVD to HD, HDTVs have been selling very well so the industry knows there is a pent of demand for HD content that is not being met until either Blu-ray or HD-DVD wins.
If you were to try to force Blu-ray, given its price/cost curve, you would likely see the ramp to HD content in the 2008/2009 time frame because that’s when the cost of the players will probably reach that critical $200 price point. But HD-DVD is already close and Wal-Mart is expected to have a sub-$200 HD-DVD player in the critical fourth quarter (Amazon already has one under $240).
A lot of us thought the PS3 would make a difference, but sales have been lagging for that player and recent studies have indicated many buyers don’t even know the players can play Blu-ray disks. That’s an effective one-two punch that appears to have eliminated the PS3 advantage at least from Paramount’s and Dreamworks’s perspective.
The extra capacity that Blu-ray has doesn’t make any difference if folks won’t buy the players in sufficient volume to make the market and, I think, Paramount and Dreamworks have simply done the math and realize their revenues will be significantly enhanced if buyers see HD-DVD as the safest and least expensive choice during the critical fourth quarter.
This doesn’t mean the market will play out this way, there is always risk and Sony is probably not going to go easy, but this appears to be the logic behind their decision.
Sony’s response
Sony has three likely responses:
First, do nothing and bet Paramount, Dreamworks, and Universal are wrong. They still have Disney (arguably the most powerful), their own Studio, and Time Warner and others that are in both camps. The market may not repeat history and move on the price, and if Sony can make enough Blu-ray noise they can, as they did for much of this year, simply assure neither wins.
Second, they can respond with their own sup $200 player themselves. That would mean losing in excess of $100 on every sale and, already bleeding from the PS3, they don’t appear to have the resources to make this work and sustain acceptable profitability, but it would prevent a HD-DVD route. I doubt, however, the outcome would be much different than choice number one in the end except they would bleed red ink like a stuck pig.
Third they could abandon Blu-ray, cycle the PS3 early to bring its price in line with the Wii (which is chewing up the market anyway) and gain a price advantage over the Xbox 360 which still has the largest installed base. Problem is you can’t cycle game systems this quickly and hope to hold onto developers and, unless they had already started this, they will take a huge hit in the fourth quarter if word gets out they are on this path with the PS3.
My guess is they will go with a blend of one and two, lowering the prices for the PS3 and players by $50 to $100 and hope that is enough to hold until they can get costs in line for something more competitive. They will then go active on their successes with Movie sales and continue to muddy the water so that buyers do not conclude Blu-ray has lost and hold off buying either until Blu-Ray can be profitably sold at the target price.
Strangely enough, the success of this hinges on Disney, if Disney (who is in heavy competition with Dreamworks and Paramount) concludes as they did that HD-DVD is where the money is, they are likely to switch camps and many may not realize that Disney was actually one of the key architects for the HD-DVD platform and switched sides for political reasons. I’m not convinced the why behind that move is going to survive close scrutiny once Disney’s board starts asking about the Paramount and Dreamworks move and I would love to be in the meeting when that is discussed.
Wrapping up
The consumer electronics market is a fourth quarter market, people will likely buy the player that hits their price point. Whether it is video game systems (and the Wii is an excellent example), or this already too old DVD format battle, folk’s need to realize that it’s not the technology that wins, but it is the price and content. You need both, neither are optional. Blu-ray lost on price and now they are losing content. That is not a good trend.
Given Sony’s history here, I can’t figure out why people just don’t leave the room laughing every time Sony proposes a new storage standard. While I still think it is possible we could end up with both as we did with recordable DVD formats, with major studios recasting their votes, I think the odds just shifted back in favor of HD-DVD. One interesting closing thought, since these studios compete with Sony’s studio, I wonder if the fact that this would drain Sony’s resources had anything to do with the decision?
In any case, whichever side you are on, I’ll bet you are hoping for the day when there is only one HD optical standard.
Source : http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/33489/128/
Paramount and Dreamworks go HD-DVD: Sony’s curse continues
When you go back and look at the number of media formats Sony has tried to bring to market exclusively, the failures are daunting. They included BetaMax, Memory Stick, Universal Media Disc, Mini-Disk, Professional Disk for Data, HiFD, Music Clip and the Super Audio CD. They had one success with the 3.5” floppy drive and negotiated out of the Multi-Media Disk to create the DVD with Toshiba and Phillips. But were this a sport, they would have one early win, seven losses and a tie. If you were a fan of a team with this record you’d be well advised to switch teams.
It is interesting to note, that in all losses, two things were consistently evident, they were more expensive and more restrictive than the other formats. Blu-ray is both more expensive (in terms of players) and more restrictive (you may recall that HP moved to support both formats because of the restrictions) than HD-DVD.
Up until now, Blu-ray has enjoyed one clear advantage; they had more studios exclusively on their side. With this announcement, that one advantage is now significantly offset. One of the things that really makes this interesting it that 300 set HD disk sales records by being on both formats which would suggest Paramount and Dreamworks are foregoing short term gains to solve a strategic problem (that almost never happens).
Cause
So why did Paramount and DreamWorks jump into the HD-DVD Camp? All of the studios agree that there needs to be one standard. They also know that the market for players is driven by price and that the two magic numbers are $200 and $100 for players - and if folks don’t have players they don’t buy disks.
This means the first player to get below $200 will be the most likely to sell enough to finally justify the switch from standard DVD to HD, HDTVs have been selling very well so the industry knows there is a pent of demand for HD content that is not being met until either Blu-ray or HD-DVD wins.
If you were to try to force Blu-ray, given its price/cost curve, you would likely see the ramp to HD content in the 2008/2009 time frame because that’s when the cost of the players will probably reach that critical $200 price point. But HD-DVD is already close and Wal-Mart is expected to have a sub-$200 HD-DVD player in the critical fourth quarter (Amazon already has one under $240).
A lot of us thought the PS3 would make a difference, but sales have been lagging for that player and recent studies have indicated many buyers don’t even know the players can play Blu-ray disks. That’s an effective one-two punch that appears to have eliminated the PS3 advantage at least from Paramount’s and Dreamworks’s perspective.
The extra capacity that Blu-ray has doesn’t make any difference if folks won’t buy the players in sufficient volume to make the market and, I think, Paramount and Dreamworks have simply done the math and realize their revenues will be significantly enhanced if buyers see HD-DVD as the safest and least expensive choice during the critical fourth quarter.
This doesn’t mean the market will play out this way, there is always risk and Sony is probably not going to go easy, but this appears to be the logic behind their decision.
Sony’s response
Sony has three likely responses:
First, do nothing and bet Paramount, Dreamworks, and Universal are wrong. They still have Disney (arguably the most powerful), their own Studio, and Time Warner and others that are in both camps. The market may not repeat history and move on the price, and if Sony can make enough Blu-ray noise they can, as they did for much of this year, simply assure neither wins.
Second, they can respond with their own sup $200 player themselves. That would mean losing in excess of $100 on every sale and, already bleeding from the PS3, they don’t appear to have the resources to make this work and sustain acceptable profitability, but it would prevent a HD-DVD route. I doubt, however, the outcome would be much different than choice number one in the end except they would bleed red ink like a stuck pig.
Third they could abandon Blu-ray, cycle the PS3 early to bring its price in line with the Wii (which is chewing up the market anyway) and gain a price advantage over the Xbox 360 which still has the largest installed base. Problem is you can’t cycle game systems this quickly and hope to hold onto developers and, unless they had already started this, they will take a huge hit in the fourth quarter if word gets out they are on this path with the PS3.
My guess is they will go with a blend of one and two, lowering the prices for the PS3 and players by $50 to $100 and hope that is enough to hold until they can get costs in line for something more competitive. They will then go active on their successes with Movie sales and continue to muddy the water so that buyers do not conclude Blu-ray has lost and hold off buying either until Blu-Ray can be profitably sold at the target price.
Strangely enough, the success of this hinges on Disney, if Disney (who is in heavy competition with Dreamworks and Paramount) concludes as they did that HD-DVD is where the money is, they are likely to switch camps and many may not realize that Disney was actually one of the key architects for the HD-DVD platform and switched sides for political reasons. I’m not convinced the why behind that move is going to survive close scrutiny once Disney’s board starts asking about the Paramount and Dreamworks move and I would love to be in the meeting when that is discussed.
Wrapping up
The consumer electronics market is a fourth quarter market, people will likely buy the player that hits their price point. Whether it is video game systems (and the Wii is an excellent example), or this already too old DVD format battle, folk’s need to realize that it’s not the technology that wins, but it is the price and content. You need both, neither are optional. Blu-ray lost on price and now they are losing content. That is not a good trend.
Given Sony’s history here, I can’t figure out why people just don’t leave the room laughing every time Sony proposes a new storage standard. While I still think it is possible we could end up with both as we did with recordable DVD formats, with major studios recasting their votes, I think the odds just shifted back in favor of HD-DVD. One interesting closing thought, since these studios compete with Sony’s studio, I wonder if the fact that this would drain Sony’s resources had anything to do with the decision?
In any case, whichever side you are on, I’ll bet you are hoping for the day when there is only one HD optical standard.
Source : http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/33489/128/
SamuriHL
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It's an interesting read. I'm not convinced of the conclusions they're drawing. Sony will bleed the company dry before they give up on Blu-ray. I think they also underestimate just how entrenched Disney is in the Blu-ray camp. Disney claims that they've evaluated both technologies and feel that Blu-ray offers them more bang for the buck. (Apparently they're going to show us some seriously kick @$$ interactive features using the BD-J. That could be fun I think) The big question I've seen no one ask is how Sony can convince Universal to be come format neutral. If that happens, then this Paramount/Dreamworks (not fully) exclusive deal doesn't look so hot. Couple that with the fact that this is an 18 month deal to begin with...if Universal caves and offers Blu-ray the scales tip back to Blu-ray's favor. That would then put Paramount/Dreamworks in a bind. They also underestimate Sony's will to get Blu-ray to succeed. If they have to have 200 dollar players this Xmas to make it happen, I *REALLY* would not be surprised if they find a way to do so. Even if that means doing something Sony traditionally doesn't do...dealing directly with Chinese mfg's. It's been said many times that they bet the farm on Cell and the PS3. They will go to any lengths to make sure they succeed. Don't count them out yet...not by a long shot.
Galileo2000
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I love this format war. I hope it will last really long time.
Without this war we would have to buy $1000 players and $39.99 discs.
Everything would be patented and every chinese manufacturer would be sent into oblivion in no time for trying to make a cheap player.
Now the damage is done.
Call me a militarist who only cares about his profits in the time of war.
Without this war we would have to buy $1000 players and $39.99 discs.
Everything would be patented and every chinese manufacturer would be sent into oblivion in no time for trying to make a cheap player.
Now the damage is done.
Call me a militarist who only cares about his profits in the time of war.
SamuriHL
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http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/pos...nical-lurk-behind-paramounts-hd-dvd-coup.html
So...they claim managed copy and other interactive features are the driving force behind this decision. What a week...
So...they claim managed copy and other interactive features are the driving force behind this decision. What a week...
Here is another article and it looks a bit promising but yet confusing at the same time.
Director Bay joins DVD format war
Director Michael Bay briefly threatened to pull out of a sequel to Transformers after Paramount Pictures dropped the next generation Blu-ray DVD format.
"No Transformers 2 for me!" wrote the director on his personal website. "To deny people who have Blu-ray sucks!"
But his comments were replaced several hours later with an apology as Bay confessed: "I over-reacted."
On Monday, Paramount and DreamWorks said they were dropping Blu-ray in favour of the rival HD-DVD format.
The announcement means that blockbusters like Shrek the Third, and Bay's Transformers film, will not be released on Blu-ray.
Movies directed by Steven Spielberg, however, will continue to be released in both formats.
Format war
Electronics giant Sony, which owns Blu-ray, is locked in a battle for supremacy with Toshiba, which created HD-DVD.
Each format offers a higher quality of picture and sound than current DVDs.
Blu-ray discs have more storage space, which can mean a better image, while HD-DVD offers more interactive features.
The race for dominance is reminiscent of the format war between VHS and Betamax video tapes in the 1980s.
The Blu-ray camp has notched up some victories against its rival recently, including a vote of support from video rental company Blockbuster.
Prices of players on both sides have dropped recently - with dedicated HD-DVD players outselling Blu-ray in the US.
However, the fact that Sony's PlayStation 3 games console can play Blu-ray discs means more homes have Blu-ray players.
It is believed that Hollywood studios could ultimately decide the fate of the two formats, but the fact that Sony is itself a movie studio has complicated the matter.
Warner Brothers is now the only company to release films in both formats, meaning that Spider-Man 3 will be a Blu-ray exclusive, while The Bourne Ultimatum will only be available on HD-DVD.
Famous supporters
Aside from Bay, several film-makers have voiced their support for different formats.
Producer Jerry Bruckheimer, who is responsible for Pirates of the Caribbean series, said Blu-Ray "far surpasses any other format".
A spokesperson for Dreamworks Pictures told film trade paper Variety that Steven Spielberg was also "a supporter of Blu-ray", although he added: "He is not exclusive to either format".
Bay, whose previous film credits include Bad Boys, Pearl Harbour and Armageddon, wrote on his website that he had been converted to HD-DVD after watching war epic 300.
He explained his original comments were written late at night after friends had complained they would not be able to watch Transformers on Blu-ray.
"As a director, I'm all about people seeing films in the best quality possible, and I saw and heard first-hand people upset about a corporate decision," he wrote.
"I heard where Paramount is coming from, and the future of HD, and players that will be close to the $200 (£100) mark which is the magic number. I like what I heard," he said.
"So I think I might be back on to do Transformers 2!"
Source : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6958439.stm
Director Bay joins DVD format war
Director Michael Bay briefly threatened to pull out of a sequel to Transformers after Paramount Pictures dropped the next generation Blu-ray DVD format.
"No Transformers 2 for me!" wrote the director on his personal website. "To deny people who have Blu-ray sucks!"
But his comments were replaced several hours later with an apology as Bay confessed: "I over-reacted."
On Monday, Paramount and DreamWorks said they were dropping Blu-ray in favour of the rival HD-DVD format.
The announcement means that blockbusters like Shrek the Third, and Bay's Transformers film, will not be released on Blu-ray.
Movies directed by Steven Spielberg, however, will continue to be released in both formats.
Format war
Electronics giant Sony, which owns Blu-ray, is locked in a battle for supremacy with Toshiba, which created HD-DVD.
Each format offers a higher quality of picture and sound than current DVDs.
Blu-ray discs have more storage space, which can mean a better image, while HD-DVD offers more interactive features.
The race for dominance is reminiscent of the format war between VHS and Betamax video tapes in the 1980s.
The Blu-ray camp has notched up some victories against its rival recently, including a vote of support from video rental company Blockbuster.
Prices of players on both sides have dropped recently - with dedicated HD-DVD players outselling Blu-ray in the US.
However, the fact that Sony's PlayStation 3 games console can play Blu-ray discs means more homes have Blu-ray players.
It is believed that Hollywood studios could ultimately decide the fate of the two formats, but the fact that Sony is itself a movie studio has complicated the matter.
Warner Brothers is now the only company to release films in both formats, meaning that Spider-Man 3 will be a Blu-ray exclusive, while The Bourne Ultimatum will only be available on HD-DVD.
Famous supporters
Aside from Bay, several film-makers have voiced their support for different formats.
Producer Jerry Bruckheimer, who is responsible for Pirates of the Caribbean series, said Blu-Ray "far surpasses any other format".
A spokesperson for Dreamworks Pictures told film trade paper Variety that Steven Spielberg was also "a supporter of Blu-ray", although he added: "He is not exclusive to either format".
Bay, whose previous film credits include Bad Boys, Pearl Harbour and Armageddon, wrote on his website that he had been converted to HD-DVD after watching war epic 300.
He explained his original comments were written late at night after friends had complained they would not be able to watch Transformers on Blu-ray.
"As a director, I'm all about people seeing films in the best quality possible, and I saw and heard first-hand people upset about a corporate decision," he wrote.
"I heard where Paramount is coming from, and the future of HD, and players that will be close to the $200 (£100) mark which is the magic number. I like what I heard," he said.
"So I think I might be back on to do Transformers 2!"
Source : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6958439.stm
DrinkLyeAndDie
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http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_story_235234226.html?keyword=topstory
Another article and they said the paramont chose HD-DVD over bluray due to the HDi feature within the DVD and that the format was made solid before it's release compared to the bluray's flaws and issues it currently has. LOL Paramont continues to state that the cost of the hardware to make was significantly cheaper as well and expect to see HD-DVD Player well below 200.00 by the holiday shopping season as well.
Another article and they said the paramont chose HD-DVD over bluray due to the HDi feature within the DVD and that the format was made solid before it's release compared to the bluray's flaws and issues it currently has. LOL Paramont continues to state that the cost of the hardware to make was significantly cheaper as well and expect to see HD-DVD Player well below 200.00 by the holiday shopping season as well.
Galileo2000
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James and peer are shining by their absence in this thread.
SlySoft is not being bought or something I hope.
SlySoft is not being bought or something I hope.
DetroitBaseball
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James been missing from the forum lately.
DrinkLyeAndDie
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Really? He's made 12 posts in the last week. Just because James or peer or whatever other related person (ie matthew for Game Jackal) may not post hourly doesn't mean they are missing.
Give the guys some time to actually look at the IFOs they've been sent, analyze the data and see if there is a problem, and fix it if there is one. It's great to see James and peer post but, in the end, the biggest nice thing is when an update is released that fixes some problems.
This thread, honestly, really doesn't require much feedback, IMHO. We all know James wants HD-DVD to win. Until BD+ hits the market only so much can be done to deal with it. I'm confident that Slysoft will find a solution but I'll never be a Blu-Ray fan, regardless.
Keep up the great work, guys!
Last edited:
DetroitBaseball
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Well, to me it seems like he is missing since he used to be way more active. Not complaining but that's how I feel.Really? He's made 12 posts in the last week. Just because James or peer or whatever other related person (ie matthew for Game Jackal) may not post hourly doesn't mean they are missing.
Give the guys some time to actually look at the IFOs they've been sent, analyze the data and see if there is a problem, and fix it if there is one. It's great to see James and peer post but, in the end, the biggest nice thing is when an update is released that fixes some problems.
Keep up the great work, guys!
thoughts on blu-ray vs hd-dvd and industry media protection/media cost
To the "youngsters" (can't say I'm that old though) here:
- commodore 64 costed well in excess of $1000 at its debut when it was launched
- my first internal cdr writer was a dual speed yamaha CDR 102, back then they only had 6 months warranty and it failed (laser defective) at it's 7 month. It costed in excess of $1000. The blank CDR media was something like $20-25 (PER DISC!) for bulk discs and approx. $35-40 for retail media from brands like Sony, Maxell, ... And that was way back well before they introduced a flatfee tax for copying on all blank media (we currently pay 0.12 EUR per cd and 0.59 EUR per DVD/BD tax BEFORE VAT of 21% on our blank media here in Belgium). Note that the prices for blank media are usually actually lower in gross volume than that tax...
... the list goes on ...
There is no reason why Blu Ray wouldn't drop more in price when more of the used tech gets integrated in less chips, specifically designed for the application - and when its being produced in large scale. Basically: new & bleeding edge products are always more expensive, mfr. try to get as much return on their investment in R&D early on (can't blame them for it). The early adopters get the early bugs and the high price. In general: it's always "wiser" the wait for a few generations down the road - but some of us just like to play around with the new things. The industry should be thankful for early adopters though, it is they that make further investment in updates possible.
...
Thusfar, I think Blu Ray has the advantage on the marketing and some technical fronts (BD-J functionality, larger capacity), but it also has some annoyances HD DVD lacks: region coding, BD+ protection schemes. Both share HDCP, which is by definition flaud: no use of multiple monitors possible (even if both support HDCP) unless using AnyDVD HD, and no dual link resolution monitors supported (without AnyDVD HD hack)? The idiot who thought out that protocol should be sued! BD also provides a pretty decent backup medium, and my first impressions are that it is much more reliable than DVD media (especially dual layer DVD media, lots of readerrors even on major brand media) and the surface does have some protective coating aswell, though it is thinner than HD DVD's. It appears to be much more scratch resistant than DVD at any rate.
HD DVD I'm not so interested in as a backup medium, I'm using the XBOX360 external usb player for HD DVD playback.
For those of you who call Sony the "evil empire", remember that it is also these people that brought us the compact discs. Sony has many original ideas, some of them better than others - some catch on, some will not - I guess that's inevitable. It's not always the technically superior that makes it though (see e.g., VHS vs. Betamax). Sony and Philips, along with people like Matsushita group, Samsung, Hyundai and Hitachi are responsible for quite a bit of the world's new technological developments and technologies used in various applications. These things also cost money (R&D) and some of the R&D work inevitably never goes to mass production, but please: let's be grateful that there are people who come up with new ideas and technologies + some creativity. Some of these people DO earn their money. It's up to you that you make sure they get it, I'd say: if it's worth it, pay for it. If it's not - well, don't.
Don't worry, the prices will come down when the products are in 2nd-3rd generation and they are in mass production volumes...
Seems to me that prices for Bluray and HD DVD are coming down much more quickly than it was the case for DVD. But can anybody explain to me why CD's often remain MORE EXPENSIVE than DVDs or sometimes even HIGH DEF? This is not logical and the industry should be well aware of it that they are only stimulating piracy and copying of music cd's when they keep prices for full album audio cd's at such a rediculously high level. (knowing mastering cost is MUCH lower for CDs and it's a very matured technology).
I can understand why some mfr. would try to protect their copyright, but seriously: it's been made clear that people don't want it and it has been causing many more headaches than it is probably worth for many companies involved: think about the extra hardware and software demands for implementing AACS/HDCP/BD+, protections like Arccoss etc., added masteringcost and the extra supportproblems and compatibility issues than ensue and you'd quickly figure out that it most likely does not have a good return on investment for the publishers. The only thing keeping HD DVD and Blu ray from being copied on large scale at the moment is the blank media cost (copying to harddisk is cheaper at the moment) and limited number of early adopters + limited availability of titles. Once these problems have been settled, people who really want to copy the discs - will copy them. ANY protection can be cracked (the players need to be able to playback the discs..). History has proven that it always will be, usually even within days or weeks after release.
Instead of taking the agressive road and attacking average citizens, they should try to stimulate POSITIVE SALE by making sure that prices of the originals are competitive to the blank media prices - i.o.w. not making it worth to copy (and not hindering a legit owner to make a copy) + bringing to the general public's attention that lots of people get their pay based on the sales of that movie, not by pointing fingers - but by clearly documenting where the costs go to (and making sure that the people who are REALLY entitled to make the money get it, and not the bulk going to some intermediary in the chain). I.o.w. informing people where that money goes if they buy an original disc. I have no problem whatsoever with them putting serious prosecution in pirates who mass duplicate originals and SELL them, i.o.w. making money on their backs - there should, however, remain a clear distinction (also in penalties involved) between those people and a kid who copies a movie for his pal or family IMHO (even if that too is illegal and these people are entitled to protect their right).
Now, if they would only be willing to actually LISTEN to what people have been saying for a long time now, maybe they'd end up being smarter and skipping the annoyances: bring us an affordable player for both formats, skip HDCP/AACS/Region codes and whatever other silly, unwanted and problem causing protection schemes and make sure everyone knows what they are paying for. Make the pricing schemes logical (the same product AUDIO CD from an artist should ALWAYS be cheaper than DVD for example). And make it less interesting for people to copy, by giving them positive incentives: put the prices closer to those of blank media, and offer reductions for example if people buy multiple discs at once...
To the "youngsters" (can't say I'm that old though) here:
- commodore 64 costed well in excess of $1000 at its debut when it was launched
- my first internal cdr writer was a dual speed yamaha CDR 102, back then they only had 6 months warranty and it failed (laser defective) at it's 7 month. It costed in excess of $1000. The blank CDR media was something like $20-25 (PER DISC!) for bulk discs and approx. $35-40 for retail media from brands like Sony, Maxell, ... And that was way back well before they introduced a flatfee tax for copying on all blank media (we currently pay 0.12 EUR per cd and 0.59 EUR per DVD/BD tax BEFORE VAT of 21% on our blank media here in Belgium). Note that the prices for blank media are usually actually lower in gross volume than that tax...
... the list goes on ...
There is no reason why Blu Ray wouldn't drop more in price when more of the used tech gets integrated in less chips, specifically designed for the application - and when its being produced in large scale. Basically: new & bleeding edge products are always more expensive, mfr. try to get as much return on their investment in R&D early on (can't blame them for it). The early adopters get the early bugs and the high price. In general: it's always "wiser" the wait for a few generations down the road - but some of us just like to play around with the new things. The industry should be thankful for early adopters though, it is they that make further investment in updates possible.
...
Thusfar, I think Blu Ray has the advantage on the marketing and some technical fronts (BD-J functionality, larger capacity), but it also has some annoyances HD DVD lacks: region coding, BD+ protection schemes. Both share HDCP, which is by definition flaud: no use of multiple monitors possible (even if both support HDCP) unless using AnyDVD HD, and no dual link resolution monitors supported (without AnyDVD HD hack)? The idiot who thought out that protocol should be sued! BD also provides a pretty decent backup medium, and my first impressions are that it is much more reliable than DVD media (especially dual layer DVD media, lots of readerrors even on major brand media) and the surface does have some protective coating aswell, though it is thinner than HD DVD's. It appears to be much more scratch resistant than DVD at any rate.
HD DVD I'm not so interested in as a backup medium, I'm using the XBOX360 external usb player for HD DVD playback.
For those of you who call Sony the "evil empire", remember that it is also these people that brought us the compact discs. Sony has many original ideas, some of them better than others - some catch on, some will not - I guess that's inevitable. It's not always the technically superior that makes it though (see e.g., VHS vs. Betamax). Sony and Philips, along with people like Matsushita group, Samsung, Hyundai and Hitachi are responsible for quite a bit of the world's new technological developments and technologies used in various applications. These things also cost money (R&D) and some of the R&D work inevitably never goes to mass production, but please: let's be grateful that there are people who come up with new ideas and technologies + some creativity. Some of these people DO earn their money. It's up to you that you make sure they get it, I'd say: if it's worth it, pay for it. If it's not - well, don't.
Don't worry, the prices will come down when the products are in 2nd-3rd generation and they are in mass production volumes...
Seems to me that prices for Bluray and HD DVD are coming down much more quickly than it was the case for DVD. But can anybody explain to me why CD's often remain MORE EXPENSIVE than DVDs or sometimes even HIGH DEF? This is not logical and the industry should be well aware of it that they are only stimulating piracy and copying of music cd's when they keep prices for full album audio cd's at such a rediculously high level. (knowing mastering cost is MUCH lower for CDs and it's a very matured technology).
I can understand why some mfr. would try to protect their copyright, but seriously: it's been made clear that people don't want it and it has been causing many more headaches than it is probably worth for many companies involved: think about the extra hardware and software demands for implementing AACS/HDCP/BD+, protections like Arccoss etc., added masteringcost and the extra supportproblems and compatibility issues than ensue and you'd quickly figure out that it most likely does not have a good return on investment for the publishers. The only thing keeping HD DVD and Blu ray from being copied on large scale at the moment is the blank media cost (copying to harddisk is cheaper at the moment) and limited number of early adopters + limited availability of titles. Once these problems have been settled, people who really want to copy the discs - will copy them. ANY protection can be cracked (the players need to be able to playback the discs..). History has proven that it always will be, usually even within days or weeks after release.
Instead of taking the agressive road and attacking average citizens, they should try to stimulate POSITIVE SALE by making sure that prices of the originals are competitive to the blank media prices - i.o.w. not making it worth to copy (and not hindering a legit owner to make a copy) + bringing to the general public's attention that lots of people get their pay based on the sales of that movie, not by pointing fingers - but by clearly documenting where the costs go to (and making sure that the people who are REALLY entitled to make the money get it, and not the bulk going to some intermediary in the chain). I.o.w. informing people where that money goes if they buy an original disc. I have no problem whatsoever with them putting serious prosecution in pirates who mass duplicate originals and SELL them, i.o.w. making money on their backs - there should, however, remain a clear distinction (also in penalties involved) between those people and a kid who copies a movie for his pal or family IMHO (even if that too is illegal and these people are entitled to protect their right).
Now, if they would only be willing to actually LISTEN to what people have been saying for a long time now, maybe they'd end up being smarter and skipping the annoyances: bring us an affordable player for both formats, skip HDCP/AACS/Region codes and whatever other silly, unwanted and problem causing protection schemes and make sure everyone knows what they are paying for. Make the pricing schemes logical (the same product AUDIO CD from an artist should ALWAYS be cheaper than DVD for example). And make it less interesting for people to copy, by giving them positive incentives: put the prices closer to those of blank media, and offer reductions for example if people buy multiple discs at once...
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Yes, what a pleasant surprise. But I told you, to "wait and see", didn't I?
Now, if Warner / New Line go HD DVD exclusive (well, 20% of their titles already are) BD (as a movie format) is dead as a doornail (UMD). Let's wait and see...
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What makes you think that? Sony (Columbia) I understand, as they have high investment in the format. But Disney? AFAIK they were even involved in the HDi design for HD DVD. They will go where the money is. Regardless of region coding or DRM or copy protection. They always did.
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Well said. :agree:
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Even if I personally would love to completely drop BD support in AnyDVD HD, we need to crack BD+ in a timely fashion (6 weeks, what do you think, Peer?) just to demonstrate Fox, that BD+ is no reason to stay Blu-ray exclusive.