Will there be a CloneDVD HD?
- Thread starter MMM
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DetroitBaseball
Well-Known Member
I think they are unsure about this right now. Because burners if they are out are very hard to get.
SamuriHL
Well-Known Member
I disagree. A product of the nature that we're talking about(see my post on CDF for more info) should be planned out and built properly from the ground up. But to do that takes time. If you started planning such a product now, I doubt you could get it on the market before a year or a year and a half. By then HD-DVD and/or BluRay will likely be quite established. Being able to convert from one format to another has HUGE benefits to people like me. I might consider a PC drive that supports both formats and use my media pc with that. That's fine. However, my xbox 360 only supports hd-dvd and it's far more portable than my media pc. Those "BluRay only" titles aren't so attractive if I can't take them with me and play them on my 360. However, if I had an HD DVD burner and some cheap(er) media, the ability to transcode BluRay movies suddenly becomes a very coveted feature.
ESPECIALLY with the things you've added to AnyDVD HD like the disc structure editing. So, I see CloneDVD HD as being a USEFUL product but also a DIFFICULT one to make. If I were you, I'd at least start putting together a list of requirements and coming up with a project plan at this stage. That way you can assign effort to each feature and do a cost analysis to see if a CloneDVD HD product even makes sense from a business standpoint. You can then prioritize the the most needed features and get a "base" product out the door that can starting making you more money so that you can work on future revisions with the features that didn't make the initial release. All of this takes time...the sooner the better.
DetroitBaseball
Well-Known Member
Yeah, we could have a thread for suggestions on the forum too to help out with the design and plans.I disagree. A product of the nature that we're talking about(see my post on CDF for more info) should be planned out and built properly from the ground up. But to do that takes time. If you started planning such a product now, I doubt you could get it on the market before a year or a year and a half. By then HD-DVD and/or BluRay will likely be quite established. Being able to convert from one format to another has HUGE benefits to people like me. I might consider a PC drive that supports both formats and use my media pc with that. That's fine. However, my xbox 360 only supports hd-dvd and it's far more portable than my media pc. Those "BluRay only" titles aren't so attractive if I can't take them with me and play them on my 360. However, if I had an HD DVD burner and some cheap(er) media, the ability to transcode BluRay movies suddenly becomes a very coveted feature.
If I were you, I'd at least start putting together a list of requirements and coming up with a project plan at this stage. That way you can assign effort to each feature and do a cost analysis to see if a CloneDVD HD product even makes sense from a business standpoint. You can then prioritize the the most needed features and get a "base" product out the door that can starting making you more money so that you can work on future revisions with the features that didn't make the initial release. All of this takes time...the sooner the better.
This is all true, and you give good arguments. (Sure, you're a pro.I disagree. A product of the nature that we're talking about(see my post on CDF for more info) should be planned out and built properly from the ground up. But to do that takes time. If you started planning such a product now, I doubt you could get it on the market before a year or a year and a half. By then HD-DVD and/or BluRay will likely be quite established. Being able to convert from one format to another has HUGE benefits to people like me. I might consider a PC drive that supports both formats and use my media pc with that. That's fine. However, my xbox 360 only supports hd-dvd and it's far more portable than my media pc. Those "BluRay only" titles aren't so attractive if I can't take them with me and play them on my 360. However, if I had an HD DVD burner and some cheap(er) media, the ability to transcode BluRay movies suddenly becomes a very coveted feature.
If I were you, I'd at least start putting together a list of requirements and coming up with a project plan at this stage. That way you can assign effort to each feature and do a cost analysis to see if a CloneDVD HD product even makes sense from a business standpoint. You can then prioritize the the most needed features and get a "base" product out the door that can starting making you more money so that you can work on future revisions with the features that didn't make the initial release. All of this takes time...the sooner the better.
)But if one of the formats dies before it really took off, any effort might be a waste of time and money. I wouldn't start thinking about such a converter for at least 3-6 months, as I don't want to bind human resources so early in "the game".
IMHO it would be more wise to think about little intermediate steps not binding so much HR (time and moneywise). As a matter of fact, most of the knowledge required to even estimate such a project is not disclosed unless you sign a license agreement with BDA (Blu-ray) or DVD-Forum (HD DVD).
I doubt SlySoft will be allowed to join the HD DVD promoter's group.
For example, let's start with "a simple driver to allow BR media to be used to backup HD DVD movies for playback on HTPC".
Then maybe a "HD DVD demuxer (to remove soundtracks) and splitter" to burn HD DVD movies on DVD+/-R dual layer media.
During these steps we could learn a lot about the new codecs, data structures, etc. while keeping the cash flow and getting a feeling for the market's response. Now - after understanding how HD DVD works - we need to understand Blu-ray. So AnyDVD HD supporting Blu-ray would be the next logical step, followed by ... you know what I mean.
SamuriHL
Well-Known Member
Not a bad idea but too many cooks spoil the dinner so to speak. Slysoft has to determine what features are feasible and when you've got tons of people requesting or suggesting features it makes it difficult to prioritize them all. I'm quite sure Slysoft has an internal development process that handles these kinds of tasks. The reason companies do phased releases is because of time and cost constraints. It'd be great if they could cram all the features we wanted into the first release but that's simply not possible. Think about what it would take, for instance, JUST to provide the ability to transcode from BluRay to HD-DVD and vice versa...without dealing with compression issues. The program would need to following abilities:
-Read both BluRay and HD-DVD disc structures
-Edit both BluRay and HD-DVD disc structures in order to add/remove content
-Construct entire BluRay and HD-DVD disc structures
-Convert video, audio, and menu structures from one format to the other
-Provide simple GUI for users to perform above tasks
Each one of those tasks breaks down into possibly hundreds of steps. Reading the disc structures, for example, is probably pretty easy for them to do. Not a big deal. Editing the disc structures...they seem to have a handle on that, as well, given what AnyDVD HD can do. However, authoring a new BluRay or HD-DVD disc structure that is compliant with the standards...that's probably not something they've done yet. I don't suspect that's an easy task. Then you have the routines to process the video, audio, subtitles, menus, etc. THAT will be very difficult and will probably require them to license the different codecs. You're talking about 3 different codecs for each disc type. I don't have any idea about the structures of the discs, but, let's assume that the codecs are implemented slightly differently on each format. You will then have to be able to trancode the video, audio, subtitles, menus, etc from one format to the other. This assumes no compression...just straight conversion. But you're not just dealing with MPEG-2 as we did on DVD's...you've got VC1 and H.264 to deal with, as well, and CloneDVD HD will have to be able to deal with those. Development time on that will be significant. Testing will also be significant. I don't know what licensing of those codecs would cost, either. But, these are the types of things Slysoft has to deal with when someone says "hey, it'd be kuel if you could just throw together this app." It doesn't work like that...this is why I said Slysoft should start thinking about it now rather than wait.
DetroitBaseball
Well-Known Member
Of course. We could help plan a roadmap.
SamuriHL
Well-Known Member
This is all true, and you give good arguments. (Sure, you're a pro.
But if one of the formats dies before it really took off, any effort might be a waste of time and money. I wouldn't start thinking about such a converter for at least 3-6 months, as I don't want to bind human resources so early in "the game".
IMHO it would be more wise to think about little intermediate steps not binding so much HR (time and moneywise). As a matter of fact, most of the knowledge required to even estimate such a project is not disclosed unless you sign a license agreement with BDA (Blu-ray) or DVD-Forum (HD DVD).
I doubt SlySoft will be allowed to join the HD DVD promoter's group.
For example, let's start with "a simple driver to allow BR media to be used to backup HD DVD movies for playback on HTPC".
Then maybe a "HD DVD demuxer (to remove soundtracks) and splitter" to burn HD DVD movies on DVD+/-R dual layer media.
During these steps we could learn a lot about the new codecs, data structures, etc. while keeping the cash flow and getting a feeling for the market's response. Now - after understanding how HD DVD works - we need to understand Blu-ray. So AnyDVD HD supporting Blu-ray would be the next logical step, followed by ... you know what I mean.
What do you read minds or something?!
Yes, I realize what's involved and I'm not saying it should be a product you just slap together right now. Simply that you start thinking about the components and features that will go into it...eventually. All the things you just laid out are excellent goals that will definitely move you along towards a product that will be highly useful. I agree completely that baby steps are needed. That's why I was suggesting breaking the feature set down into a project plan to do some analysis on it. But it sounds like you're at least thinking about the right steps so I'm good with that knowledge. Keep up the great work.
That's my job. If I don't do it, it will be Tom and Giancarlo spanking me with the foam bat. And no, I don't like that.What do you read minds or something?!
SamuriHL
Well-Known Member
That's my job. If I don't do it, it will be Tom and Giancarlo spanking me with the foam bat. And no, I don't like that.
ROFLMAO!
I knew you guys had too much fun there! LOL!!
TM2-Megatron
Well-Known Member
I'd hope that if this kind of product were released eventually, it would perform more or less all the same functions that CloneDVD does, but on both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. Basically, just giving us the ability to backup our movies either entirely or in part (with the option to preserve the menu structure). I suppose it somewhat defeats the purpose of idealized HD, but the ability to compress would be useful as well. Since HD-DVDs can also apparently be written onto normal DVDs, a single-layer HD-DVD (although I've heard that most releases have been dual-layer) could be compressed onto a DVD+R DL as well.
I'm not sure how much of a priority the ability to convert the entire Blu-Ray and HD-DVD structures from one to the other should be, though. Perhaps Slysoft should just focus on matching the current CloneDVDs features first, and add this later on if it's truly demanded.
I'm not sure how much of a priority the ability to convert the entire Blu-Ray and HD-DVD structures from one to the other should be, though. Perhaps Slysoft should just focus on matching the current CloneDVDs features first, and add this later on if it's truly demanded.
If and when there will be a CloneDVD HD I doubt it will convert BD or HD to SD DVD-9. I can't wait till they have something for us though as it would be nice. A basic easy to use one step program is all that is holding me back right now to start buying in BD now. Price ain't nothing to me if you want to make a backup without the loss of quality or resolution and retain everything you want.