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What should we do? To James and other SlySoft People

I read that there are 80 some odd commands in the "full" BD+ VM language. They should only need a subset of that for current titles. It may become necessary, as Peer said, to increase that for future titles, but, eventually they'll run out of tricks with BD+.
 
Stormlord said:
I think it means slysoft is trying to properly implement a hack of the classes and methods first that are actually currently being used in the limited virtual machine that is provided on the blu ray players, in a manner that it effectively breaks BD+ (not a quick patch that will nolonger work a few weeks after). I say limited, since the number of functions the VM can perform do proably not exactly compare to your average complete Java virtual machine ;)
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Again: BD+ is not Java. No classes. No Methods. The BD+ VM is a proprietary set of roughly 60 commands in the sense of "a = b + c".
And that part is not really the difficult part of BD+.

As a side note: the Java VM on the BD players is not at all limited. It is a fully grown Java implementation, including multithreading and all that jazz ;)
 
Charlie said:
They lost 2 studios to help support that format.
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Which is the second? "New Line"? Probably I would not count it separately from Warner. As I would not count Dreamworks separately from Paramount and MGM separately from Fox.
 
Warner left 2 days ago and last night or early this morning New Line left shortly after. count them seperate as one chose to stay for a bit longer than the other. Dreamworks is all that's left. Hang onto the dieing will if you want but clearly BD has won and it is just a matter of time that HD just dies out period. By the way I am not a fanboy of one or the other just read the facts and learn. James himself said it is the end of HD-DVD to and he developes anydvd.
 
HD Dvd is pretty much dead, and the only ones who have a chance in hell of saving it is Slysoft. Its to bad they (slysoft) wont just stop any work on bd+ any let all the Blu supporters enjoy their drm amongst other things.
 
Slysoft should just send the movie studios a letter stating that they have the ability to crack any and all protections by the BDA and AACS and BD+ so backing Blu-ray will offer no more protection to their titles. They should also say(but not actually do it) that they will stop decrypting HD DVD if the format wins but once it does, continue to crack HD DVD anyway. Never trust hackers!!8)
 
Charlie said:
Warner left 2 days ago and last night or early this morning New Line left shortly after. count them seperate as one chose to stay for a bit longer than the other.
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Warner, New Line and HBO are all under the Time-Warner umbrella, so if Time Warner says "jump", they all jump.
 
LOL! I'm guessing that's not the biggest motivation for the studios, however. Right now, they're more concerned with DVD saturation and growing a new market. They discovered, finally, that having a split market for HD was pissing off consumers and making them uninterested in HD. (Imagine that). So, the idea is, pick a side, stick with it, and rebuild the home video market from the ground up with HD content and cheap players. (Anyone doubting that last statement needs to look at the CES announcements...cheap profile 1.1 players are coming this spring). We'll see if it works.
 
mike_9000 said:
Slysoft should just send the movie studios a letter stating that they have the ability to crack any and all protections by the BDA and AACS and BD+ so backing Blu-ray will offer no more protection to their titles.
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They probably already realised that, since Fox was even at some point considering going to HD-DVD together with Warner. There are many other things besides protection which were taken into consideration.
 
Understood but Fox is a studio that is all about protection. They are hoping that the BDA will release something that will stop Slysoft but if they are stupid they will believe something like that. The only reason that studios are Blu-ray exclusive is the money the BDA gave them and the no doubt story that their content is safer on Blu-ray(BD+ & ROM Mark & AACS) presentation of crap. End of Story!
 
James said:
Warner, New Line and HBO are all under the Time-Warner umbrella, so if Time Warner says "jump", they all jump.
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Thanks for the clarification. I think if worse comes to worse they'll have mods for the players soon as well but how long will that last before a firmware needed update comes out just to play?
 
Caesar said:
HD Dvd is pretty much dead, and the only ones who have a chance in hell of saving it is Slysoft. Its to bad they (slysoft) wont just stop any work on bd+ any let all the Blu supporters enjoy their drm amongst other things.
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HD DVD is "on it's way out" only because Blu Ray is seen as a more secure format by the studios. The BD group can still pitch to the studios that BD+ has not been cracked and a correct implementation of it will further reduce piracy. Your assertion that Blu Ray supporters are enjoying thier DRM is misinformed only because the normal joe that has bought into high definition media is unaffected by DRM as they have standalone players or PS3 and don't know about backing up their collection or even that such an ability is being discussed (managed copies). It's people like you and I and the rest of the HTPC group that a Blu Ray win would impact the most negatively and we just aren't a big enough group (I would love to be wrong on that) to get studios to not support Blu Ray.
 
Ok Peer,

wasn't aware of the details and didn't study any documents. I guess people just want you to be ready sooner than healthy. I can wait for a proper hack, and that's basically what I wanted to convey.
 
mike_9000 said:
My questions are for your loyal customers, what should we do. Hold out, do not buy Blu-ray or should we just support the format cause it has really taken over.
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This is not a dictatorship, you do whatever you want. Personally I don't know why anyone would buy a bluray player until region-free players are on the market, but then there's a lot of seemingly self-destructive behaviour I don't understand. Make no mistake, the sole reason the Bluray format is succeeding is the PS3 - which I personally think is a giant piece of useless junk. What Bluray Player doesn't even come with a remote control??

Yeah, I think the format war is all but over; however I do strongly believe HD-DVD can win the pc-drive recording war easily. But being in PCs alone will not help them win the format war.
SamuriHL said:
They will indeed have to reverse engineer it as there is NO public documentation that exists on BD+. Not for what they need anyway.
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You take everything Slysoft says too literally. "No public documentation" doesn't necessarily mean they haven't been able to find some. Slysoft has taken the long route which proves they know what they're doing. All slysoft - or anyone for that matter - had to do to crack BD+ was write a program to correctly recognize the correct path of the engine (or the BD+ code that decrypts the content), and purge all conditions in the BD+ code that would cause it to fail (like player checks).
PrincipalityFusion said:
Your assertion that Blu Ray supporters are enjoying thier DRM is misinformed only because the normal joe that has bought into high definition media is unaffected by DRM as they have standalone players or PS3 and don't know about backing up their collection or even that such an ability is being discussed (managed copies).
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Absolute slander! There are many people who do not back up media at all that are affected by region-coding. I for one very rarely back up my DVDs (which is why I just use ole DVD Decrypter, instead of buying AnyDVD), that and Aussie DVDs usually aren't infested with all the extra DRM junk released in the USA. Every 1.0/1.1 BluRay player owner will be affected by their player becoming obsolete - so that affects every Bluray player owner except PS3 owners. But regional-lockout still affects PS3 owners. So that's everyone.
 
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Aractus said:
You take everything Slysoft says too literally. "No public documentation" doesn't necessarily mean they haven't been able to find some. Slysoft has taken the long route which proves they know what they're doing. All slysoft - or anyone for that matter - had to do to crack BD+ was write a program to correctly recognize the correct path of the engine (or the BD+ code that decrypts the content), and purge all conditions in the BD+ code that would cause it to fail (like player checks).
Click to expand...

Actually, I've talked to others besides Slysoft who were/are looking at cracking BD+. There is no documentation out there that'll help them with it. This is quite literally a case of security through obscurity. From what I've been told by people looking at it, it's not simple at all. We're lucky Slysoft is A> paid to do this, and B> has extremely talented people like Peer and James working for them. I don't think what they do gets appreciated enough, personally. But that's just my opinion.
 
SamuriHL said:
From what I've been told by people looking at it, it's not simple at all.
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Well Slysoft co can correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I can tell it's not complicated at all, it's just a simple matter of forcing the BD+ code to decrypt the disc (or the part of the audio/video that is still encrypted that is) regardless of its programming not to do so in certain situations. All it does is check certain things in the host environment; so all you have to do is tell the code what it wants to hear. That's why the BD+ code still decrypts in the earlier PDVD version - because PowerDVD wasn't telling it that the disc had no AACS protection, or that ICT had been removed - or whatever else the BD+ code "wanted" to know.
 
Aractus said:
Well Slysoft co can correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I can tell it's not complicated at all, it's just a simple matter of forcing the BD+ code to decrypt the disc (or the part of the audio/video that is still encrypted that is) regardless of its programming not to do so in certain situations. All it does is check certain things in the host environment; so all you have to do is tell the code what it wants to hear. That's why the BD+ code still decrypts in the earlier PDVD version - because PowerDVD wasn't telling it that the disc had no AACS protection, or that ICT had been removed - or whatever else the BD+ code "wanted" to know.
Click to expand...

I'm going to have to use empirical evidence to disagree with your assertion that it's a "simple matter." If it were, the BD+ code would already be implemented and released. I'm going to have to guess that it's quite a bit more involved.
 
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