What is needed to watch a ripped UHD ISO?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by cybrsage, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. cybrsage

    cybrsage Well-Known Member

    I was reading in the update thread about what is needed to play the ripped UHD ISOs and it was suggested this portion of the discussion branch off from the ripping discussion. In that light, this is the branch off.

    From what I understand, to rip the ISO you only need a UHD friendly drive and a PC that can use that drive. The crappier your PC is, the longer the rip will take. Pretty easy.

    But people have said that playback is very different. Obviously, a UHD compatible display is needed, else there really is no reason to rip a UHD in the first place, just stick to the tried and true Bluray. But what else is needed to play the ISOs from a Windows PC?
     
  2. Ch3vr0n

    Ch3vr0n Translator NL & Mod

    Wrong section, moved. Uhd playback is not an AnyDVD Blu-ray issues problem.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P with Tapatalk
     
  3. testiles

    testiles Well-Known Member

    @cybrsage It's a great question. Glad you made the thread.

    You mention a UHD compatible display and that's a whole topic within itself. Is the computer a laptop with a 4k display? If not, are you going to connect to a 4k TV where high-speed HDMI 2.0 is required? Or to a 4K computer monitor, where there's the additional option of a DisplayPort connection? Is there an advantage of DisplayPort over HDMI?

    I'm using a desktop connected to a 4k HDR TV using HDMI 2.0 cabling.

    As far as requirements for the PC itself, processing UHD video is extremely resource intensive, so a fairly beefy processor is needed.

    I tried using an i5 computer but playback was so choppy it was unwatchable. Looked like in the old days when I used to try to stream Blu Ray over a Wireless G connection -- just not fast enough. I think for smooth UHD iso playback you need a processor on the i7 level.

    Finally, you need a media player that can handle the UHD "disc" format. I've heard a number of software players being mentioned.

    I'm only familiar with PowerDVD 17. It works well but will not play video from UHD discs, folders or iso's using anything but Intel Graphics. That seems to be the only graphics it will handshake with for that.

    I'm not sure if PowerDVD 17 has that restriction for playing 4k files (mkv, etc). I can experiment with that, but the topic here only mentions iso's.


    T
     
    cybrsage likes this.
  4. tgp7777777

    tgp7777777 Well-Known Member

    PowerDVd will play 4k MKVs or, indeed individual 4K MT2S files without imposing HDCP playback restrictions.
     
  5. tgp7777777

    tgp7777777 Well-Known Member

    The reason to buy a UHD now even though you may not have a 4K display is that in a years time when you DO have a better display, you CAN play it in 4K. You are futureproofing.
     
  6. peterbus

    peterbus Well-Known Member

    https://forum.redfox.bz/threads/4k-uhd-file-players.74581/#post-483469
     
  7. HEVC.

    HEVC. Member

    I have yet to see a PC monitor support the 10-bit color space (BT.2020), commonly referred to as HDR. Some monitors support 4k resolutions, but only support the 8-bit color space (BT.709), referred to as SDR. If you're going to view 4k HDR content, it makes sense to me to view it on a display that supports this new color space. PC monitors are way behind the TV's in this area. The HDR color is more important to me than the 4k resolution. It's hard to describe unless you see it for yourself. MadVR is good at mapping HDR (10-bit) to SDR (8-bit), but why would you want to view it like that? Not a knock against Madshi at all, just my opinion.

    Windows 10 only recently added support for HDR in the Fall Creators Update. If you're interested in viewing HDR content, Windows is probably not the best solution. You would need a video card like an NVidia Pascal GPU (1050+) that supports hardware decoding of h265 10-bit HDR content. Some of the lower NVidia cards (1030 and below) were tested with poor decoding performance. There are probably some AMD cards that can decode HDR just fine too. Assuming you convert the main movie to an MKV, you can play the HDR content in Kodi, VLC, MPC-HC, and other players that support hardware decoding of h265 10-bit video. PowerDVD 17 has additional requirements (Kaby Lake) for playing HDR content, probably due to licensing requirements form the AACS-LA.

    Many people like the NVidia Shield device connected to their HDR TV. It supports h265 10-bit HDR and also supports Kodi, Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc. The Android OS apparently has issues mapping HDR to SDR. I also read something about an issue in Kodi regarding 10-bit HDR color, swapping from a Blu-ray 8-bit to a 4k 10-bit video. Not sure if this is resolved yet.

    If you want to play DVD, Blu-ray, and 4k HDR content on a dedicated device, I highly suggest the OSMC Vero 4k. It's not overly expensive, it has a dedicated Linux kernel that just runs Kodi, and plays everything you throw at it. No color issues at all. James has also suggested an Amlogic X96 (S905x), which I believe is a very similar chipset, and takes some know-how to get configured properly.

    All of these solutions are better and cheaper than attempting to view HDR content on your PC. Rip the data on your PC. Store the data on your NAS. Play the data in Kodi on the OSMC Vero 4k. Upgrading your PC is more expensive.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  8. James

    James Redfox Development Team Staff Member

    This is true. The Shield is no solution, if you want to playback UHD content on an SDR display. Nvidia promises to fix that with the Android TV Oreo update.

    I agree, OSMC Vero 4k is a great device, well supported with regular updates and works out of the box. For what it is, probably a little expensive. The X96 is almost the same hardware as the Vero 4k (minus bluetooth, which is a non-issue) and costs about a quarter of the Vero 4K. It is an alternative for people, who just "want to try" a good 4K media player. Or need a bunch of devices for bedroom, children, ... X96 comes with garbage software. So no "out of the box" working solution.
    However, putting LibreElec on an SD card was not rocket science. I am not the brightest person, I tried it and it worked right away.
    Running LibreElec the X96 performs as well as the Vero 4k. IMHO even better, as the Argus TV plugin crashes under OSMC, but runs fine on ShieldTV and LibreElec.

    A bummer is, that Amlogic S905X doesn't offer a gigabit ethernet port. X96 is very cheap, so "you get, what you pay for". At the price of the Vero 4K I really would expect gigabit ethernet.
     
    HEVC. likes this.
  9. HEVC.

    HEVC. Member

    You're right, it's not that difficult. With all the different chipsets and versions of the X96, I've had a tough time finding which one would work best and a vendor to purchase it from. It is certainly a good solution for a cost conscious consumer.

    I couldn't agree with you more. I really expected Gigabit Ethernet with the Vero 4k considering the price. The justification from Sam at OSMC is that the bitrate from a 4k mkv doesn't exceed 100 Mb/sec, so Fast Ethernet is good enough. This is my only concern with the device, other than the price (although it's on sale right now). The highest bitrate mkv I've seen yet is Lucy, at ~86 Mb/sec. The video stream alone is 80 Mb/sec. Even with the Fast Ethernet, it seems to play well for me. I'm hopeful it doesn't become an issue later on, as that doesn't leave a lot of overhead for the NIC.

    My wife really likes the OSMC remote. It's really simple to use. I bought another for the Raspberry Pi 3 that I'm running OSMC on. All of these options are cheaper than playing back HDR content in Windows.
     
  10. cybrsage

    cybrsage Well-Known Member

    Crap, thanks! :)
     
  11. cybrsage

    cybrsage Well-Known Member

    I personally am using PDVD17 on Windows 7 64bit WMC via Media Browser (the old 1.6 version, or something like that). My AVR is UHD ready, my PC is long in the tooth so it is not (AMD APU A10, 6 or so years old). I use a projector, so until I upgrade that I cannot view UHD in its glory, though I am upgrading the cabling now to be ready.

    So it looks like the PC will have to be a new Intel I7 chip. I always liked AMD for a HTPC due to their APUs.
     
  12. HEVC.

    HEVC. Member

    You should be able to play HDR content if you have a video card that supports h265 10-bit hardware decoding. Intel Kaby Lake CPU+GPU chips (and newer) work well (Core i5 & i7), as well as the new NVidia Pascal (1050 and above) and some AMD GPU's (RX470/RX570 and above). You shouldn't decode via CPU only. You shouldn't need a Core i7 to decode, as you should be decoding with your GPU. You also should look at other options then Windows. Windows 7 does not support HDR. Only the latest Windows 10 build does.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  13. Ch3vr0n

    Ch3vr0n Translator NL & Mod

    they do yes but NOT with a licensed player like PowerDVD 17. Cyberlink enforces the iGPU for UHD playback yo keep the secure path intact
     
  14. tgp7777777

    tgp7777777 Well-Known Member

    Does it? Even if you play the Mt2S file directly?
     
  15. HEVC.

    HEVC. Member

    Correct. All of my comments are suggesting playback using a player that supports GPU hardware decoding like Kodi, VLC, MPC-HC, etc. and not using PowerDVD 17. This also raises the question that if you're using an unlicensed player to view HDR content, why spend all the money to play it on Windows 10 when you can use a cheaper ARM-based alternative (NVidia Shield, OSMC Vero 4k, AMLogic X96, etc)? You also don't have to worry about Cinevia on an unlicensed player.
    Yes, I believe you cannot play HDR content without a Kaby Lake CPU+GPU in PowerDVD 17, regardless of the container (M2TS, MKV, etc).
     
  16. testiles

    testiles Well-Known Member

    That's good to know!

    I have yet to successfully do this. I created a couple of mkv's from ripped UHD iso's using CloneBD, but when I try to play them in PDVD, I get sound but no picture.

    I'm trying to determine if the problem is the way I created the mkv's in CloneBD (lot of settings and never done this before) or with playing them in PDVD or something else...


    Apologize ahead of time if this is a dumb question, but do the devices in the thread you mention play discs only or can they play iso's?


    Totally agree with you there HEVC!


    The integrated Intel Graphics my PC is using seems to do a good job with HDR.

    Granted PDVD 17 on my PC performs a little squirrelly when it comes to HDR. On some of my UHD iso's it says I am not attached to an HDR display (which I am) but seems to play back using HDR anyway. For the rest, it just plays using HDR.

    I chalked it up to the fact that I'm using the ripped iso's and not an actual disc but not 100% sure of that yet...


    That's true. But technically I don't think it's strictly enforced.

    I was able to get PDVD 17 to play a UHD iso on a laptop with an i5-6200U processor and if I'm not mistaken that's not Kaby Lake.

    It didn't play well but it played.


    Cybrsage are you saying you are able to actually play the UHD iso's on Windows 7?



    T
     
  17. testiles

    testiles Well-Known Member

    Good question.

    I tried this in PDVD 17 and surprisingly it worked.

    Played the largest m2ts file within a UHD iso on a desktop with AMD graphics and it did play!

    Of course, you lose menu, chapters, audio selection, subtitles, etc.


    Again, playing the iso itself (as if it were disc) does not work.


    T
     
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  18. tgp7777777

    tgp7777777 Well-Known Member

    Are we using HDR and UHD interchangeably here? I can rip any UHD Bluray to ISO with AnydvdHD and play any Mt2S file in Powerdvd no problem. I do not have Kaby Lake, SGX or an HDR monitor.
     
  19. HEVC.

    HEVC. Member

    What CPU/GPU/OS are you using with PowerDVD 17 to play an M2TS directly? I have not personally tested it, so maybe Ch3vr0n and I are wrong.
    UHD is referring to the disc. HDR is referring to the content on the disc. Maybe I'm wrong and you can use PowerDVD 17 to play HDR content without a Kaby Lake CPU. Still, without an HDR display, I don't see the point of playing the content at all.
     
  20. tgp7777777

    tgp7777777 Well-Known Member

    To me, Ultra High Definition means 4k content. HDR means High Dynamic Range. 4K can be HDR or SDR (although most 4k Discs ARE HDR). You can play 4k in HDR or SDR. one gives you resolution, the other gives you enhanced colour. You can play high resolution files to get better definition without necessarily needing the better colour gamut.

    It is confusing to say "You cannot play HDR with Pdvd unless you have iGPU" when you can. A non HDR display can still play 4K content benefiting from 4 times greater resolution without the brighter colours.

    I am using non Kaby Lake CPU, Nvidia 1080, Windows 10.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018