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We can't really blame the studios for copy protection

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by sneakers, Apr 25, 2007.

  1. sneakers

    sneakers Well-Known Member

    Not everyone copies dvds they already own and they lose sales each time one is copied by someone who doesn't already own the disc. Not everyone is honest like us. :policeman:
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2007
  2. mmdavis

    mmdavis Well-Known Member

    That's a nice sentiment, but that's not really what it's about IMO. As long as there's been copy protection, there's been someone to defeat it. Movies are out on the internet before they start showing in the theaters. Copy protection can't stop that, it's their own people doing it.

    And telling me that the actors, producers and movie studios are going broke because of people copying DVDs, is like telling me that oil companies are going broke because of the lack or price of oil. I don't see any of them driving 15 year old Ford Tempos and living in $60k-$100k homes because some (probably not as many as we're being led to believe) people are renting and copying movies.

    I don't buy it. I still think it's about controlling the market to make even more $$. Just like M$.
  3. creeper6996

    creeper6996 Well-Known Member

    Actors, oil companies, musicians, and athletes are waaaaay over paid and everytime their salary cap, or lack thereof, increases, guess who has to pay for it? The consumer. I don't think any actor is worth 20 million per movie.
  4. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    So, they should punish those who do?

    Copy protection does not stop pirates, and it punishes legitimate customers.

    I have friends in Canada who can buy The Illusionist, for example, for what amounts to $3.33 (Canadian funds) via Columbiahousecanada for a brand new copy. Only an idiot in Canada would pirate that film. 3 movies for $10 (Canadian), no further commitments.


    How much does it cost you to rent 3 relatively new releases?

    I would imagine Columbiahouse in the United States offers similar deals.

    So really, I'm amazed when people in North America claim to pirate. Let's see, they can afford to rent a dvd and copy it, but they don't have the brains to build up their own collection via legitimate means for either less money or approximately the same price. And if Columbiahouse doesn't offer it, and they can't afford full prices, then they should buy a used copy. I dunno. I am not here to judge people, but I definitely don't condone pirating nor do I practice it.

    Regardless, I back up the movies I own, and I have the legal right to do so (regardless of how I'm doing it).

    So, I disagree; I can blame whomever is responsible (moreover, I blame them for messing disc structures to such an extent that not all standalone dvd players can play them).
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2007
  5. sneakers

    sneakers Well-Known Member

    In the U.S. $14.99 new the first week it comes out $19.99 after that.

    Blockbuster Total Access is $17.99 a month rent all the dvds you want. Get em mailed to your front door. Return it at the store and exchange it for another one Free.

    If you live here in Illinois you coud use the rental kiosk machine(dvd play) for $1.49 a dvd at your local grocery store. They have em in other places just under a different name.
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2007
  6. jvc

    jvc Well-Known Member

    New movies, in the US, cost from $14.99 to $22.99, depending on when and where you buy them. Some movies cost $14.99, the first day or two, at Wal Mart or Best Buy. After a couple of days, it goes up to $22.99, in most cases. You might be able to buy a five year old movie for $5.50, at some places.

    BlockBuster Video and Hollywood Video rents movies for over $4 each. They sell previously viewed movies from $9.99 to $16.99, depending on how popular and how old it is. They will run specials sometimes, on the previously viewed, at four movies for $20.

    My stepfather is a member of Columbia House Video Club, but doesn't buy many movies, because they're so expensive. They will run a special sometimes, and you can buy two movies and get one free (you pay shipping for free one), or occasionally buy one and get two free. After you've satisfied your committment with them, you'll get more deals, but still not that great. Their regular price on new releases, is very expensive.

    I buy a lot of my movies from local pawn shops, for about $4 each. I can find a movie, once in awhile, that has been out for about a month, but they're usually older movies. Big cities like Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, may have places to get dvds at a deal, but these small towns scattered across America, don't have too many great deals.

    My stepfather tried BlockBuster online, and all the movies were so scratched up, you couldn't watch a whole movie. It would stop playing. That was before they allowed returns to the local store............
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2007
  7. diskwatcher

    diskwatcher Well-Known Member

    Guys you're forgetting Amazon and their resellers.
    Check them out.
  8. oldjoe

    oldjoe Well-Known Member

    Not that I am condoning illegal activities ..BUT...You can rent a DVD for as little as $1.25 and buy a blank DVD to copy it to for under $.50...The cheapest you can buy a new copy is about $15 on the day it is released and as low as $5 several months after its release date. Under $2 compared to a minimum of $5 multiplied by several hundred mounts up to a substantial savings. With the economy being what it is, that doesn't seem all that unintelligent to me.:confused:
  9. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    I have trouble believing a American company is offering better deals to Canadians than Americans. Seems strange . . .






    $10 (Canadian funds) for 3 dvds. No further commitments. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2007
  10. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    Okay, so $1.75 U.S. vs $3.33 Canadian (approximately $3 U.S.). Are people that cheap that they would still pirate? At that price point, I hold nothing but disdain for pirates (at least in Canada); I'm told Blockbuster rentals cost more per movie in Canada than $3 U.S. Absolutely freaking stupid as far as I'm concerned. Granted, Columbiahouse doesn't offer all dvds (and sometimes people have to wait a month or so for them to get new releases) . . .

    Let's see: official packaging, a keep case, a disc that less likely to become unplayable in 5-10 years than than a blank dvd-r for $3 U.S. compared to a disc that will likely start to fail in 5-10 years and nothing else . . .

    Yeah, still seems pretty pathetic to me.
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2007
  11. sneakers

    sneakers Well-Known Member

    You guys keep posting about Canada Not everyone lives in Canada and if it cost less to buy in Canada how do Rental places make any money at all?
  12. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    Regular dvd prices are approximately the same in the U.S. as in Canada. However, it seems to me if these dvd clubs (and by the way, Columbiahouse is an American company) can offer 3 dvds for $10 Canadian, I suspect some business in the United States probably offers something similar (probably those who frequent deal sites would know better).

    And oldjoe was talking about American pricing.

    Rental companies make money in Canada because most aren't aware of this offer (or are either impatient or realize that Columbiahouse has a somewhat limited catalog):


    I'm told most Canadians have absolutely no clue about this offer.

    Regardless, my main point is that copy protection does not stop pirates (seriously who has it stopped?), and it punishes legitimate consumers (the latest Sony and the Protect-dvd nonsense from Germany are two recent examples) that do have the right to make a backup of their purchases.
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2007
  13. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    Keep this in mind too: publishers have to pay companies to use their copy protection technology (or if they develop that technology themselves a cost is incurred anyway). That cost then gets passed onto the consumer. And who is stopped by the copy protection measures? Pirates? Hardly. Those that are involved in the sales of pirated discs know all about how to circumvent copy protection. The average consumer who may want to make a backup because he or she is concerned about wrecking the original disc (kids, or for whatever reason) is the one who is inconvenienced (and in some cases, as the result of the copy protection, the original discs won't even play in all standalone dvd players).
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2007
  14. oldjoe

    oldjoe Well-Known Member

    When and "if" a disc will fail is pure speculation. I have copies that are well over 4 yrs. old and they still play as well as the day they were burned.
    It's all about the Benjamin's. Rental $1.50....Blank Disc...$.25....Case $.15
    It may be a pathetic situation to some but it's still a fact.
    The problem is the people who sell large quantities of pirated copies...not the individual who rents and copies.
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2007
  15. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    A commercially produced/pressed dvd should last longer than any burned dvd-r; that's not even a very interesting debate, and it's certainly not open to speculation.

    So do I.

    However, many people have poorer burns on junk media, which are starting to fail in less than two years (kept in low humidity; rarely exposed to light). Some are known to fail in less than six months.

    $1.90 vs $3
    $1.90 for a disc that will fail first.
    Yeah, I'd still say that's pretty pathetic.

    I have no respect for that nonsense . . . just absolute scum, imo.

    Get rid of the demand and what happens? I suggest at $3 for a legitimate, commercially released dvd there should be little to no demand for pirated material--nor for copying rented discs. I agree with you insofar that those who do sell pirated material should be the targets. However, if there's no demand, then chances are no one's going to peddle pirated material.
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2007
  16. jvc

    jvc Well-Known Member

    Here is the membership details for Columbia House:
    When joining, you can buy five movies for $.49 each. But look at the prices, to fulfill your committment:
    Once you're a member, the regular prices they mentioned (if I remember correctly), range from $22.99 to $26.99 per dvd. And to get a lot of the deals, you have to buy one or two, at regular club prices, and then you'll get the deal. Don't forget the shipping and handling!

    There's the info, straight from their site. So, I guess Canadians DO get a better deal, from an American company. Do you believe it now Webslinger?
  17. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    No. That's a standard deal (the average Columbiahouse deal in Canada is similar).
    visit http://qj.columbiahousecanada.com/qj4/genrePage.do?club=12&mode=QJR&switchLocation=true
    Sound familiar?

    The 3 for $10 deal is a special, relatively unknown offer for Canadian customers.

    So basically, I'm saying you're likely not looking hard enough or are simply not privy to some of the better deals offered by Columbia House for Americans. And I guarantee you there are better offers for Americans than the one you listed.
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2007
  18. jvc

    jvc Well-Known Member

    One more thing:
    The deal for signing up, is better for the Canadians, according to the previous links. They can get two dvds free, when they buy one for $9.95, and nothing more to buy........ever!

    We have to buy five more, over two years, at $19.95 or more.........
    See what I mean?
  19. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    No. The standard deal, again, is pretty similar for both countries:

    I'm not talking about standard deals. The one I'm linked to originally is usually only offered to Canadians who have completed
    their memberships. But there's nothing stopping any Canadian from signing up.

    There are better deals than the standard ones that are offered for either country. You're just not looking hard enough.

    After people complete their memberships, Columbia House tries to suck you back in. The longer you wait, the better
    "return to us" offer is (up to a point). My understanding is the 3 for $10 offer was, I believe, originally implemented as a "return to us" offer. But they just let anyone use it now, provided you know the offer code.
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2007
  20. jvc

    jvc Well-Known Member

    These links don't let me see more than the $.49 joining special prices, since I'm not a member. I'm not going to join either.
    I have spent a lot of time looking through their catalog, they send to my stepfather, who is a member. I figured I'd get him to order me some, if I found some really good deals. But I never found any really good deals.

    BMG used to be a seperate company, and was a cd club. I was a member of it, years ago. They had some great deals on cds, once you met your committment of buying one cd. I bought quite a few. The shipping was more than the cd price. But I have about all the cds I'm interested in. So, I haven't bought from them in years. They quit sending me the catalogs. Then they merged with Columbia House...........