Two sizes for the same disc

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Perene, May 11, 2021.

  1. Perene

    Perene Member

    Let's say I have a DVD and AnyDVD-HD creates an image (ISO) with 7.2 GB.

    Browsing inside the ISO mounted I can only see the VIDEO_TS folder. If I ask Windows 10 the total size from said folder, it's 6.4 GB:

    SAS.png ]

    Total size of the ISO, however, it's 7.2 GB like I said.

    SAS2.png

    Why is that the case?

    Also, I used a program that can create ISOs. Then I created myself two new folders:

    AUDIO_TS
    VIDEO_TS

    And just copied the files from AnyDVD's ISO (6.4 GB total) to it. The new ISO has 6.4 GB.

    You can see where I am going. Not only I ask WHY is that the case (800 MB?), I need to know if this new ISO can work 100% the same as the AnyDVD one. I use PowerDVD.

    And no, in this case I am not seeing anything in the ISO's root, like DVD-ROM material. Unless of course 800 MB are hidden.

    Another predictable difference between the two is that ISO #1 has the original date from my DISC (November 2, 2000) while #2 of course is from today, even though it's a copy.

    NOTE: the ISO AnyDVD created was decrypted, of course.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2021
  2. whatever_gong82

    whatever_gong82 Well-Known Member

    Did you create the DVD ISO using AnyDVD's "Rip Video Disc to HardDisk" option, or did you just use "Rip to Image"?
    If you did "Rip to Image", AnyDVD tells you not to do that. You can create an ISO using the Rip to HardDisk option along with DVD Shrink, or use CloneDVD2 along with AnyDVD.

    Now, as far as why your file size is what it is, you'll have to ask those on here that are a lot more knowledgeable than me.


    :)
     
  3. Ch3vr0n

    Ch3vr0n Translator NL

    The explanation is simple. If there's structural protection on the disc (or some other form of fake titles) using the folder ripper does some basic disc reauthoring and strips those away. The iso ripper can't do that and other than removing CSS it keeps EVERYTHING ELSE intact. Including structural protection, which can potentially cause playback problems m. Which is why Anydvd wants you not to use the iso ripper on dvd's.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
     
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  4. Perene

    Perene Member

    I used rip to image (ISO). If this was not meant to be there, and we should opt for CloneDVD instead, then why would you offer this option?

    Who would want to keep an ISO from a disc with any protection inside it? All of them have to be disabled.

    *******
    One question: some DVDs have DVD-ROM material in the disc's root. For example, Men in Black is presented this way:

    Wl376BX.png

    This is what I see from one of the ISOs mounted, created by the "RIP TO IMAGE" option.

    I noticed these executables are often met with incompatibility problems, because the software that would enable you to access the DVD-ROM contents is too old, so can't run on Windows 10. Yet let's assume we could, somehow. Or (if I am not mistaken) you actually have some PDFs in this root (I believe classic Doctor WHO discs have those).

    If I use the "Rip Video Disc to HardDisk" option from ANYDVD I'll only end up with the VIDEO_TS folder. I believe (correct me if I am wrong) this to be the case.

    So that's why at first I told ANYDVD to create an ISO. I wanted 100% of my original DVD preserved.

    Wait, let me get this straight:

    "Rip Video Disc to HardDisk" removes all protections set in place, basically it does what we call "decrypting" and remove all the garbage inside those discs, like region-code protection, which AnyDVD prevents from being changed 5 times (after 5 times we can't do it again, even if we format the hard drive or install the drive in new hardware).

    You are also saying that:

    "Rip to Image" is only removing CSS and keeping all the rest there, like structural protection.

    Why?

    I believed AnyDVD was removing everything even when creating ISOs.

    The creation of an ISO requires an external program (I also own one), so I believed this was there in AnyDVD only to make things easier. I also thought the ISO option was better because it was including what was missing in the Rip Video Disc to HardDisk" option.

    So is region-code still there when you create an ISO? Because AnyDVD strips that information when the disc is read (before any ripping) and it's required to do so.

    My region-code is 4 (Brazil/NTSC). Since I own some R1 discs I also change to R1 inside AnyDVD internal settings, whenever I put a foreign DVD. When I put back a brazilian disc I change ANYDVD settings to R4.

    If I open PowerDVD I can see there are still 5 changes remaining.

    Anyway...

    Why keep structural protection or other stuff when you create an ISO? What purpose does this serve?
     
  5. Ch3vr0n

    Ch3vr0n Translator NL

    Nobody said that option isn't supposed to be there. It is. Its the recommended way to rip BLU-RAY discs. AnyDVD warns you not to use the iso ripper on DVD's for the reasons already mentioned. That doesn't mean you can't use it.

    Your oversimplifying things, and missunderstanding how anydvd works. AnyDVD is an on-the-fly decrypter that presents the content of the disc, decrypted. Structural protection is something that CANNOT be removed due to the bare principle of the protection. It creates a ton of fake titles, which have to be removed, disc structure remapped etc. That's no longer decrypting, that's disc authoring (creation) and is a completely different mechanic. CloneDVD2 is no exception to this. While it can't remove encryption, it's whole purpose is to make backups of content (whether that's by shrinking or 1:1 copy). It's a disc authoring tool, capable of removing those fake titles and remapping disc navigational structure when needed, as long as the disc itself is otherwise decrypted.

    Structural protection sits on top of the basic CSS encryption.

    First you have to decrypt the CSS to see the content (including the fake titles), then you have to strip away the fake titles to get to the actual true disc structure. Try doing a simple windows explorer file copy on a disc that's been decrypted by anydvd (css) and has structural protection. An easy way to find out (other than checking the anydvd status info) is to pull up the dvd properties. Such discs can report a "total file size of 10-15GB EASY". Which is physically impossible on a DVD. The absolute maximum a DVD-9 can hold is 8.5GB. Now if you rip such a structural protected disc, with windows explorer file copy while you have anydvd decrypting the CSS, you WILL end up with 15GB of dvd structure including the fake titles.

    Nothing wrong with that, as i said ISO copies everything.

    True, with the AnyDVD file ripper it would strip away the non-Video_TS files, but those aren't protected by CSS. There's usually nothing standing in the way of using windows explorer file copy function and copying those files yourself manually


    Yes, with the exception of structural protection, that CANNOT be removed on the fly.
    • Folder ripper > re-authoring: strips away excess data with the end result being only the real video data (excess being fake titles, filler stuff etc)
    • ISO ripper > on-the-fly decrypting and copies EVERYTHING in an iso. Because of what i said above, structural protection (if present) will be present in the ISO.
    Correct, with the caveat above

    Wrong to a degree, you're confusing disc region coding with drive region code. The 2 while linked in a way are NOT the same. On a DVD, it has (when done properly) been assigned a region code. When you insert a DVD, the drive checks the disc region code if it's allowed for playback (leaving anydvd out of the picture here). If the disc region code doesn't match the one of the drive, playback will refuse. AnyDVD removes the DVD's region code, but it DOES NOT prevent your drive region itself from being changed 5 times. (Not if you do it correctly anyway).

    The only way anydvd "prevents" you from setting a drive region correctly, is if you have anydvd running WHILE you attempt to set the drive region. AnyDVD sits at an layer directly between the hardware and the OS. When you have anydvd running, you're "setting" the region on the emulated drive by anydvd (the one that presents the decrypted content to the OS). It's specifically stated in the anydvd status info. For example this is always present in dvd info: "Emulating RPC-2 drive with region 2!" (that region number can change depending on your assigned drive region. If you want to CORRECTLY set your drive region, you need to EXIT anydvd first then go into device manager, so you set the drive on the physical drive and not the one emulated by anydvd

    unfortunately, what you BELIEVED it did, and what it actually does and is possible are 2 seperate things. As explained above, structural protection (when present, not all discs have that) cannot be removed on-the-fly.
    DISC region is indeed properly removed

    Thats the wrong place to change it, and has zero effect on your foreign DVD. You can if you want to leave that setting on the default "R1" and it'll still decrypt your region 4 discs correctly. Which is why when the disc region doesn't match the drive region, anydvd has to apply bruteforce cracking method to get around the CSS to decrypt it. Having the wrong region assigned to the drive (not maching the inserted disc), is essentially the same as not having a region assigned at all.

    Drive region matches disc region: AnyDVD can decrypt CSS the correct quick & easy way.
    Drive region does NOT match disc region (for example drive region 4 or 0) and disc region 1: AnyDVD has to apply a bruteforce method to crack this, which can trigger an anydvd warning message if it fails to crack all CSS keys via bruteforce

    Then you simply haven't set your drive region AT ALL and anydvd should tell you in the status window like this (your drive model obviously being different)

    Summary for drive K: (AnyDVD HD 8.4.6.0, BDPHash.bin 19-09-17)
    HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GH20NS10 EL01
    Drive (Hardware) Region: 0! (Unset)

    Insert a random DVD, rightclick the fox tray icon and click "create logfile". Then post it here, it's really easy to see if you done it properly.
    Anyway...

    As explained above, removing structural protection cannot be done on-the-fly with anydvd. The AnyDVD ripper is a very barebones ripper, and is in fact based on CloneDVD2's ripper!
     
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