TrueHD sound for HDVD not working on Vista, PowerDVD over SPDIF

[eraser2002]

i had the same problem - i have a yamaha dts and dd5.1 amp which played hd audio from hd-dvd films fine from my xbox 360 as it downsamples the HD audio into a compatible format

when i tried to play them from my pc there was no sound after researching the problem i had to buy a auzentech souncard to convert the audio - as i dont want a new amp. im using spdif also

 

[roog]

Has anyone been able to get TrueHD sound to work on HDDVD movies on Vista 32/Powerdvd 7.3 v2911 over SPDIF? When I choose TrueHD over SPDIF, my receiver only reads it as a 2.1 source whereas if I choose dolby digital plus it reads it as 5.1 or more.

Any one get truehd sound to work over SPDIF? I'm using a creative external sound card Audigy 2 NX and connecting to my receiver over optical.

After reading up on the subject, without both a HDMI 1.3 soundcard and receiver you're SOL.

 

[colinhunt]

After reading up on the subject, without both a HDMI 1.3 soundcard and receiver you're SOL.

Not necessarily. Just bung in a regular Vista-supported audio card with 5.1ch analog output (minijacks usually) and hook it up to a AV amp with 5.1ch analog input. PowerDVD decodes the TrueHD soundtrack and outputs it via audio card 5.1ch analog output. Plenty of wiring, granted, but it works and the result is pretty good.

 

[Humpa]

Not necessarily. Just bung in a regular Vista-supported audio card with 5.1ch analog output (minijacks usually) and hook it up to a AV amp with 5.1ch analog input. PowerDVD decodes the TrueHD soundtrack and outputs it via audio card 5.1ch analog output. Plenty of wiring, granted, but it works and the result is pretty good.

That's what I'm doing (though on XP), and I was trying to get verification in post #20, but no one had responded yet. It sure sounds good, I was just wondering if I was missing anything - like if powerDVD wasn't decoding TrueHD completely or something.

 

[colinhunt]

That's what I'm doing (though on XP), and I was trying to get verification in post #20, but no one had responded yet. It sure sounds good, I was just wondering if I was missing anything - like if powerDVD wasn't decoding TrueHD completely or something.

PDVD decodes TrueHD very nicely indeed, that's not a problem at all. Currently the question is what PDVD does with DTS-HD HR/MA tracks: does it decode both properly, or only HR, or only the 1.5mbit/s core from both. Cyberlink hasn't made that clear.

 

[Humpa]

PDVD decodes TrueHD very nicely indeed, that's not a problem at all. Currently the question is what PDVD does with DTS-HD HR/MA tracks: does it decode both properly, or only HR, or only the 1.5mbit/s core from both. Cyberlink hasn't made that clear.

Thanks.
It just gets confusing now. Before I just had DTS, Dolby Digital and PCM for digital signals, and then just Dolby Souround or stereo for 2 channel analog.

Now I get a little confused.
Though this seems to explain it simply:
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/520150

Though it seems that most of my blu-ray and hddvd do not include the DD+, TrueHD, or DTS HD Master Audio. Out of 50 some-odd discs, at least half of them have one english audio track available in the Setup > Audio, and it just says Dolby Digital 5.1

 

[colinhunt]

Thanks.
It just gets confusing now. Before I just had DTS, Dolby Digital and PCM for digital signals, and then just Dolby Souround or stereo for 2 channel analog.

It's not that confusing, actually. You can't output soundtracks compressed with BD/HD's new audio codecs (DTS-HD HR/MA, DD+, Dolby TrueHD) over SPDIF, period. If you select one of the new tracks and use SPDIF for output, you're getting downsampled/downgraded output - always.

If you want to hear DTS-HD HR/MA, DD+ or Dolby TrueHD, you need either a 5.1/7.1 channel analog connectors in both the player and the amp, or HDMI in both the player and the amp. And that's really not the end of it, unfortunately...

Though it seems that most of my blu-ray and hddvd do not include the DD+, TrueHD, or DTS HD Master Audio. Out of 50 some-odd discs, at least half of them have one english audio track available in the Setup > Audio, and it just says Dolby Digital 5.1

Actually HD DVD can't do regular Dolby Digital at all - it's exactly why DD+ was created. DD and DD+ are pretty much the same up to 640kbit/s, which is the limit for regular DD. DD+ can go up to 3mbit/s.

 

[colinhunt]

Oh yeah, about PowerDVD. Judging by Cyberlink's updated info page for PDVD Ultra, it can't decode DTS-HD HR/MA at all. That's odd, because PDVD's OSD most definitely shows the correct bitrates for both of those. One would think that if PDVD decoded the 1.5mbit/s DTS core only, the OSD would show 1.5mbit/s as well.

 

[Humpa]

It's not that confusing, actually. You can't output soundtracks compressed with BD/HD's new audio codecs (DTS-HD HR/MA, DD+, Dolby TrueHD) over SPDIF, period. If you select one of the new tracks and use SPDIF for output, you're getting downsampled/downgraded output - always.

If you want to hear DTS-HD HR/MA, DD+ or Dolby TrueHD, you need either a 5.1/7.1 channel analog connectors in both the player and the amp, or HDMI in both the player and the amp. And that's really not the end of it, unfortunately...


Actually HD DVD can't do regular Dolby Digital at all - it's exactly why DD+ was created. DD and DD+ are pretty much the same up to 640kbit/s, which is the limit for regular DD. DD+ can go up to 3mbit/s.

So anytime my Blu-Ray or HD-DVD Setup Menu says "Dolby Digital" it is actually DD+? Is this true for both formats?
And DD+ is the same as the DVD DD5.1 except that it can go up to 3mbps sample rate? If so, I feel better already - I just want to think I have a better audio track than is on my dvd.

Oh, and is DD+ 5.1 or can it also do 7.1?

I'll have to make sure and read the PowerDVD OSD when watching my movies ....
And thanks for the info.

 

[colinhunt]

So anytime my Blu-Ray or HD-DVD Setup Menu says "Dolby Digital" it is actually DD+? Is this true for both formats?

No. Blu-ray uses regular Dolby Digital, usually at 640kbit/s. It should be able to do DD+ as well, but I haven't seen any BDs using DD+.

And DD+ is the same as the DVD DD5.1 except that it can go up to 3mbps sample rate? If so, I feel better already - I just want to think I have a better audio track than is on my dvd. Oh, and is DD+ 5.1 or can it also do 7.1?

That's the second difference between DD and DD+, yeah. DD+ can do 7.1 channels, whereas DD is limited to 5.1.

 

[AngelEyes]

I am using PowerDVD and an X-Fi sound card via 8 x analogue connections to my Processor.

When i switch from DD+ to TruHD or LPCM 5.1, I cannot hear any difference at all in sound quality. I have a mid-high end HT so I should easily be able to hear an improvement.

This leads me believe somewhere along the line the lossless audio is being downsampled but I cannot work out where.

I have used graphedit to view the graph and a Microsoft mpeg1 filter appears where I would expect a Cyberlink Audio filter to appear. (This is on Pirates, Dead man's Chest BD).

Anyoe have an idea what filters i should see for this?

Thanks,

Adam

 

[roog]

I am using PowerDVD and an X-Fi sound card via 8 x analogue connections to my Processor.

When i switch from DD+ to TruHD or LPCM 5.1, I cannot hear any difference at all in sound quality. I have a mid-high end HT so I should easily be able to hear an improvement.

This leads me believe somewhere along the line the lossless audio is being downsampled but I cannot work out where.

I have used graphedit to view the graph and a Microsoft mpeg1 filter appears where I would expect a Cyberlink Audio filter to appear. (This is on Pirates, Dead man's Chest BD).

Anyoe have an idea what filters i should see for this?

Thanks,

Adam

PCs generate a lot of RF interference. If you don't believe me, just try to use a cellphone near one. That's the reason I believe you should never use anything but SPDIF when connecting a PC to a receiver. Optical SPDIF is probably best but apparently analog SPDIF is interference free or they wouldn't have included it with HDMI.

Because of signal loss, reduced bandwidth, and interference you'll probably never be able to tell any difference between Dolby Digital Plus and TrueHD when using analog outputs from a sound card.

Once the digital signal gets to your receiver, everything goes back to analog again when output to the speakers so don't put your speakers or even the speaker wires close to your PC.

Even now I have trouble finding content that fully utilizes the 5.1 format, not to mention 7.1, and I have yet to see any real evidence that there are any speakers that are up to the task for TrueHD.

With HDTV, at least my eyes can see the difference between standard definition and high definition. I doubt that my ears can tell a difference between Dolby Digital and TrueHD.

Maybe my dogs will enjoy it though because their hearing is much more sensitive than mine.

 

[AngelEyes]

Thanks for the reply roog but I am not going to give up without delving into it a little further. I agree there is interference from the PC and I can hear a very faint buzz when the PC is running but I should still hear some difference between 640kb/s and 7mb/s regardless of how much noise is added by the power supply etc.

What I would really like to know is what filters/decoders PowerDVD should be using to playback a BD disk so I can check mine is right using Graphedit.

Thanks,

Adam

 

[colinhunt]

When i switch from DD+ to TruHD or LPCM 5.1, I cannot hear any difference at all in sound quality. I have a mid-high end HT so I should easily be able to hear an improvement.

Not necessarily. What you should hear, however, is slightly different sound levels from each. By the way, what movie has all three codecs on it? You really can't compare different codecs from different movies.

 

[AngelEyes]

No movie has all three, I was just trying to make the point that when switching from a lossy to a lossless format on a variety of discs I cannot hear any differences at all, not even levels.

This is something that is at least obvious on a SD DVD when switching between DD and DTS as often TS is louder.

Thanks,

Adam

 

[AngelEyes]

Not necessarily.

Not sure why you say this, are you saying that 640kbs will sound the same as 7mbs? If so what is the point in these new sound formats?

Adam

 

[HDRAY]

Will SRS Sandbox work for a substitute?

It has a nice HD sound option (WOW HD, I think).

 

[colinhunt]

Not sure why you say this, are you saying that 640kbs will sound the same as 7mbs? If so what is the point in these new sound formats?

To sell new players and A/V receivers to people? No, seriously, it's been proven with numerous blind AB tests that most people are unable to tell the difference between a good lossy compression and lossless audio. That's not the entire story here, naturally, but it's a valid starting point.

 

[colinhunt]

No movie has all three, I was just trying to make the point that when switching from a lossy to a lossless format on a variety of discs I cannot hear any differences at all, not even levels.

OK, that shouldn't really be. There should be a very short but noticeable 'glitch' in the audio when PDVD switches from one audio to another. The switching is not instantaneous, either; there's a delay of approx. one second in most cases. And so far there's been a difference (sometimes tiny, tho) in sound level on every disc I've tested when changing sound tracks.

 

[AngelEyes]

Hi Colin,

I do get the glitch/moment of silence as it changes track but no noticable level change. I wonder if somewhere in the software the maximum bitrate sent to the sound card is being restricted? Any idea where or how to check this?

Thanks,

Adam