True HD output and Power DVD

Discussion in 'AnyDVD HD (Blu-ray issues)' started by Xtrap1979, Jan 18, 2008.

  1. Xtrap1979

    Xtrap1979 Well-Known Member

    Hi,
    is there any possibility to get True HD working properly with Power DVD?
    I'm using 3319a but even though the pop up menu says 5.1. the info box during the film just says True HD 2.0
    I know it doesn't work with spdif but if PDVD just says 2.0 there would be no need to use hdmi or analog for audio still.
     
  2. kdssrugby

    kdssrugby Well-Known Member

    Long story short: No.
    First off, even if it did, you would need a reciever that is capable of outputting TrueHD, i.e. Onkyo 605.
    2nd: Powerdvd can decode TrueHD, but it cannot output it. It downmixes the signal to its lossy core and into 16bit. The reason it cannot output TrueHD is that there is no method (as of yet) that can ensure the sound can travel from the player to the sound card that is HDCP compatible. Since their is no "secure" way to transmit the audio data, it downmixes it, much like the ICT down converts 1080P video to 480P. Once a product can ensure the data can be transmitted securely, then you'll get True HD sound.

    At the moment, most people that want the closest thing to TrueHD use the analog outputs from their sound card. Analog at the moment can ouptut the highest rez audio allowed. Its still not full True HD, put its close.I hope that answers your questions, if not, let me know.
     
  3. Mark_A_W

    Mark_A_W Well-Known Member

    Sounds like you are using the bundled Powerdvd which came with a drive?

    The full retail version does 5.1 TrueHD, abet downsampled (which may or may not be audible in the real world - 16 bit 48khz is better than CD on all channels).
     
  4. SamuriHL

    SamuriHL Retired Moderator

    I use the analog outputs myself and the sound quality is noticably better than AC3 or DTS. I've yet to hear a digitally streamed TrueHD track so I can't tell how it compares to that, but, trust me when I say the quality is pretty darn good on the analog outputs. However, yes, I agree with Mark on this, it very much sounds like an OEM version which only gives you stereo decoding on HD audio tracks.
     
  5. nesNYC

    nesNYC Active Member

  6. Xtrap1979

    Xtrap1979 Well-Known Member

    No, it's the full version. It switches to True HD 2.0 when the movie starts.
     
  7. Xtrap1979

    Xtrap1979 Well-Known Member

    If I use the analog outputs and it says true hd 2.0 does it downsample to dts 5.1?
    I'm a bit confused here. I'm not that much into sound configs all I want is 5.1 sound...:D
     
  8. alganonim

    alganonim New Member

    @Xtrap1979

    I've been playing with PDVD and both analog and digital connections.

    Seems to found out how it works, when you want to switch to analog in PDVD, you must choose in it's audio preferences how many speakers you got , for eg. 8 speakers for 7.1, but when you use digital then stop the playback and switch to SPDIF.

    PDVD sometimes switches back automatically from SPDIF to 2 speakes, it's a bug, and when you use SB X-Fi sound card and you will switch to "Game Mode" then you will got only True HD 2.0 too, I think it's PC sound card's limitation to PCM 2.0 gives this effect.
     
  9. kdssrugby

    kdssrugby Well-Known Member

    If you're using analog it will not downmix the signal to dts 5.1 (BTW DTS is a different format than dolby). What will happen is that rather than output the signal at 24bit/96hz, powerdvd will output it at 16bit/48hz. If you are using digital, then yes it will down mix to dts.

    If you're going to use analog (and you have 5.1 speakers) then under audio options, select 6 speakers (the 6th is the subwoofer=.1). If you are outputting to a reciever, then you can select no effect under output mode and the receiver will encode the information to whatever format you like. If you outputting straight to your speakers then select Neo 6 or dolby PLIIx etc. These formats will upmix 2.0 to 5.1.

    like alganonim said, there is a glitch (intentional maybe) that will cause s/pdif to revert to 2 speaker when trying to play TrueHd. If you want full 5.1/7.1 over s/pdif then you'll have to use DD+ which is the highest lossy format you can get over s/pdif and still get surround sound. And if you do have an X-fi card, I would recommend you put it in entertainment mode (if you're model supports it).
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2008
  10. dexgo

    dexgo Active Member

    I am getting an X-fi sound card and the module/ surround sound analog cables to go to my yammy rx-v661 AVR.

    I should get better sound than standerd 5.1 and even dd+ right?

    should get it outputed to Uncompressed PCM where available right?
     
  11. kdssrugby

    kdssrugby Well-Known Member

    Yes you will get better sound as long as you are using a TrueHD track. I m not sure how your Yamaha setup works, but if its like my onkyo 605, then it should have an analog option. What PCM is, is a digitization of an analog signal. In the case of blu-ray and HD dvd players using HDMI, a analog signal is digitized so it can be sent over HDMI. In your case, PCM will not be a factor since you are not digitizing the signal since it will remain analog.Hope this helps.
     
  12. nesNYC

    nesNYC Active Member

    Does that x-fi have the 1/2 output connectors or RCA? If it only has the 1/2 plugs, the sound will contain noise (a hiss) and won't come clean to your receiver. You're better off getting an HDMI video card later on when they have support for TrueHD. Right now, I don't think the x-fi does DD+ either and any support from PowerDVD is downsampled so you won't get the sound at it's fullest. In other words, your solution isn't "future proof" and possibly a year down the line you'l begin to see HDMI sound solutions from major card makers I'm pretty sure.

    But even then, your receiver needs to support TrueHD and DD+ and very few do that now a day. You can go the anaolog rout but that solution isn't without it's limitations as well.

     
  13. Jong

    Jong Well-Known Member

    I'm not convinced either about this analogue solution, especially if you have a good AV amp.

    Yes, all audio is analogue originally, however TrueHD is a lossless but digitial format. If you use the PC you have the quality of the PCs DACs and jacks to consider.

    I am not convinced it beats Dolby Digital @640kb/s fed into a good amp with the amp doing all the digital to analogue stuff. At least I am going to stick with that until working HDMI based solution appears as I hope it will with PowerDVD8.
     
  14. ajeffo

    ajeffo Member

    I asked a question of Cyberlink support about how the TrueHD is supported over digital and analog and they gave the the following answer.

    Sp/dif is downmixed to TrueHD 2.0 at 16 bit / 48kHz

    Analog is not downmixed it is still 24bit / 48kHz - this is using the 6 speaker set up in PDVD
     
  15. scmeis1

    scmeis1 Well-Known Member

    I guess we will all have to wait for PaP (protected audio path) in vista to appear. Otherwise I think the best solution is to use an ATI card that passes 5.1 audio through HDMI (or dvi to HDMI ati propietary) to your receiver. Cyberlink just gave me the link that sent me back to their blu-ray/Hd-dvd plug in stats. I am personally done with creative, they can not get their product to really do dolby now, so I am going to give HT omega a shot. This product has a lot of promise, and I like the fact that the tos link is on the card for input and output.

    http://www.htomega.com/claroplus.html

    I like the fact I can stream it either from my video HDMI and or output it from this card. Just a better solution at the moment in my opinion and my onkyo 605 seems to like it.
     
  16. kdssrugby

    kdssrugby Well-Known Member

    @scmeis1
    The HDMI output on any available video card right now is 1.2 which means it cannot output lossless audio, only 1.3 can do that. Additionally the ATI 2xxx series, while able to output audio via HDMI, can only send a stereo signal and is essentially using a s/pidf setup.

    As nesNYC states, it would be best to wait until pap is implemented and a HDMI 1.3 compatible videocard is released, but this does not seem likely in the near future. Also, powerdvd would have to issue a patch that would prevent the downsampling, which again would take time. As for a hiss sound, I did experience that when I had it hooked up to my onboard audio, but the hiss only became apparent at around at a volume of 75/100. With my x-fi I do not here that hiss at 100/100. (I have an Xtreme music xfi card).

    I never said the analog solution is future proof, I am sorry if people thought it was, it is generally accepted as the best method of getting hi-def audio with the current tech. If you want the best audio, I suggest you get a HD-a35 or a new blu-ray player that accepts all the new codecs.
     
  17. dexgo

    dexgo Active Member

    I Have a notebook for #1.

    and my yamaha will be fine if I output from my m1710 to my avr with those analogs.

    analogs are analogs. sends the sig straight thru.

    my Reciever can take TRUEHD if decoded at the source and sent via analog.

    When I play it from my HDA1 thru analog It gets Pure TRUEHD.

    Via hdmi with no onboard decoding it decodes it as PCM
     
  18. dexgo

    dexgo Active Member


    If you have a Player or Device like PDVD that decodes TRUEHD and feed it to your AVR via analog you get TRUEHD.

    If not my Reciever will see it as PCM.

    Yes the Express XFI has RCA Speaker Module adapter. for analogs for 7.1 to a AVR.

    Future proof is a joke.

    If you can use Analog and decode it from the Player like my HDA1 decodes TRUEHD and sends it to my Multi Channel AVR's Analog inputs. your always going to be good.

    If a player had onboard Decoding for DST-HD MA my receiver would take it thru Analogs and play it Fine.

    All you need is onbard Decoding.

    I hate HDMI. and Would prefer to use Component Because Too me it looks Better... and I can notice the diff on my 120 inch HD 81 Projector.

    I have 2 bd players and 2 hd players.

    My Hda1 is going out of style cuz they are using the Image Constraint Token now. On discs allready.

    I only use it for Component. so I will be SOL cuz it doesn't handshake via HDMI.

    SO my HTPC will be my HD DVD player and that is why I want my sound good if I can get it that way. Since I have a 5k worth of sound speakers and a good AVR. might as well use it.
     
  19. Jong

    Jong Well-Known Member

    You are mistaken about that.

    HDMI 1.x can send multichannel PCM audio, which is actually what the new DVD specifications prefer you send to your amp. This is because the new standards allow for audio to be pre-mixed beforehand eg. mixing a commentary (for an overlayed pop-up video) and a soundtrack and this is not possible if you do not first decode the audio.

    1.3 is needed to pass the new lossless digital bitstreams eg. Dolby TrueHD to a compatible amp. Some trust their amp more than their player to do this decoding but since no DtoA is involved, just a decoding algorithm, there is no reason why it should be any better. So HDMI 1.x with multi-channel PCM should be just fine and allows all the features of the new discs to be accessed.

    As to whether the ATI cards can do multichannel PCM, we do not really know. It may just be a driver limitation as they have yet to perfect a secure audio path or those cards may never work, but there is no reason why a 1.x card should not work perrfectly, as intended, with lossless audio.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2008
  20. kdssrugby

    kdssrugby Well-Known Member

    Thank you for the clarification Jong, but I do not believe I am mistaken. I merely stated that you cannot transmit a lossless format (i.e. TrueHD) via HDMI unless it is 1.3.

    While you are not wrong on anything, I would like to point out that a discussion on HDMI at this time is not going to get us very far since the OP's question was regarding a HTPC solution and your points are more applicible to a set top player. On a set top player you can chose whether to transmit the data as a bitstream or as uncompressed PCM, on a computer, you cannot.

    Also. I have a ATI 2600xt 512mb, and looking at its sound properties, it can only output stereo, and I do not believe a driver update will enable a full transmission of lossless audio due to the fact that the HDMI output s HDMI 1.2 and unfortunately you cannot update hardware with a driver update (dang). Another problem with ATI cards is that not all have a HDMI output, rather they use a DVI port and a hdmi adapter. Since DVI cannot pass audio through, this will be a limiting factor for many.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2008