Tried to copy CD

Discussion in 'CloneCD' started by Dal1980, Apr 20, 2019.

  1. Dal1980

    Dal1980 New Member

    Hi Guys

    I've not got my old CD-ROM's out for quite some time but had an urge to backup all my old games. These are from the MS-DOS, Windows 95, Windows 98(SE) and Windows XP era so quite a span of time.

    I unfortunately lost a bunch of games over the years due to damage or just MIA and although GoG + Steam can get me the latest port some of them are either bad ports (new bugs) or they have tried to improve it somehow (which is most of the time not an improvement). On top of this, I have to pay nearly the same price I got the original game for (in the cases of getting the original in a sale or on White Label/Hit Squad etc) and that really bugs me since I'm sitting in front of the original CD.

    Anyway....

    I've got 90% of everything copied using a trial version of an CD->ISO creator (BurnAware) which was something I was just going to buy had it done 100%. This is how I came across RedBox/CloneCD as I was on the lookout for some better software.

    I've still hit the same issues and I've wondered if the media CD is maybe the problem. To test this I created a VM for the game and setup Win98SE and sure enough the game works directly from the disc but not when I try the ISO I created from the Clone process.

    So there is definitely some kind of CD protection and I'm just wondering how to get around it. If this is something that CloneCD is able to do then I'll buy it. I am in the evaluation stage still so have a little time to figure this out and test.

    Can anyone help?

    Here's the copy log (I chose to make a copy of a protected CD)

    Code:
    I 15:16:15 CloneCD Version 5.3.4.0 started!
    I 15:16:15 ElbyCDIO Driver 6.1.1.3
    I 15:16:15 ElbyCDIO.dll 6.1.9.1
    I 15:16:15 CCDDriver.dll 5.3.0.1
    I 15:16:15 ElbyECC.dll 4.0.0.0
    I 15:16:15 WriteDVD.dll 2.6.6.3
    W 15:16:20 Registered to: UNREGISTERED
    W 15:16:20 21 of 21 Trial Days remaining!
    I 15:16:20 Searching for SCSI/ATAPI devices...
    I 15:16:20 Device Scan found 1 CD-ROMs and 1 CD-Writers!
    I 15:18:07 Starting copy from HL-DT-ST BD-RE BP50NB40 to D:\Zombie3\CDs\CloneCDTest2\DELTAFORCELW.ccd
    I 15:18:07 Read Speed for Data Tracks: Maximum
    I 15:18:07 Read Speed for Audio Tracks: Maximum
    I 15:18:07 Read SubChannel Data from Data Tracks: No
    I 15:18:07 Read SubChannel Data from Audio Tracks: No
    I 15:18:07 Fast Error Skip: Yes
    I 15:18:07 Don't report read errors: Yes
    I 15:18:07 Intelligent Bad Sector Scanner: Yes
    I 15:18:09 CD contains CD-Text: No
    I 15:18:09 Reading Track 1... (Blocks 0-340984)
    I 15:18:37 Fast Error Skip has been enabled automatically!
    I 15:25:53 Fast Error Skip has been disabled automatically!
    I 15:43:43 Duration of operation: 00:25:34
    I 15:43:43 Average Speed: 521 kBytes/s (2.96)
    I 15:43:43 Reading finished!
    
    Points of note (probably verbose):

    1. The Game is Delta Force Land Warrior (A Win95/Win98SE CD-ROM game using DirectX (9? I think))

    2. The clone process takes some time at the start of the CD and flags the Fast Error Skip so presuming that the copy protection is on track 1(? I don't know much of what I'm saying here so please forgive me if it makes no sense)

    3. I have about 100 games copied successfully but this is 1 of 12 games that seem to have similar issues. BTW, the CD's in most cases do not even have so much as a hairline scratch and have been kept in a CD holder case away from sunlight if this information helps settle anything.

    4. Also, can I make it create an ISO instead of an IMG file (I did use the free Virtual CloneDrive to convert it but wanted to skip the additional step if I could)?

    5. Copy process takes approx 35 mins so please bare that in mind if there are any "suck it and see" types of debugging going on lol

    6. I'm using a USB Blue Ray Player from LG (HL-DT-ST BD-RE BP50NB40 USB Device) https://www.lg.com/us/burners-drives/lg-BP50NB40-external-blu-ray-dvd-drive

    7. I don't have access to any other CD-ROM drive since part of the reason I'm making CD backups is that my options are starting to become quite limited in using CD's. ISO files work fine in most cases with DOSBOX (PC MS-DOS Emulator) or in a Virtual Machine.

    8. I'm running Windows 10 if you need to know that.

    Many thanks
    Dal
     
  2. StoneyJSG

    StoneyJSG Well-Known Member

    According to the internet, delta force land warrior has safe disc v2 protection on it. Clone CD should be able to handle this protection. I know the burning program alcohol 120% can so clone CD should be able to as well.
     
    Dal1980 likes this.
  3. Dal1980

    Dal1980 New Member

    Thanks for the response. I don't really know why then. Like I say, the original disc goes in and everything is rainbows and unicorns but anything that gets cloned over and made an ISO and the game knows it's not a real disc.

    I don't know if I'm just selecting the wrong option when it's going through the stages...

    1. I select to Clone a CD
    2. I select my drive (LG)
    3. I select "Protected PC Game"
    4. Create "Cue-Sheet" is check
    5. Process starts...
    6. Process ends ("Reading finished!")

    Code:
    I 21:48:14 CloneCD Version 5.3.4.0 started!
    I 21:48:14 ElbyCDIO Driver 6.1.1.3
    I 21:48:14 ElbyCDIO.dll 6.1.9.1
    I 21:48:14 CCDDriver.dll 5.3.0.1
    I 21:48:14 ElbyECC.dll 4.0.0.0
    I 21:48:14 WriteDVD.dll 2.6.6.3
    W 21:48:16 Registered to: UNREGISTERED
    W 21:48:16 18 of 21 Trial Days remaining!
    I 21:48:16 Searching for SCSI/ATAPI devices...
    I 21:48:19 Device Scan found 1 CD-ROMs and 1 CD-Writers!
    I 21:51:38 Starting copy from HL-DT-ST BD-RE BP50NB40 to D:\Zombie3\CDs\testclonecd3\DELTAFORCELW.ccd
    I 21:51:38 Read Speed for Data Tracks: Maximum
    I 21:51:38 Read Speed for Audio Tracks: Maximum
    I 21:51:38 Read SubChannel Data from Data Tracks: No
    I 21:51:38 Read SubChannel Data from Audio Tracks: No
    I 21:51:38 Fast Error Skip: Yes
    I 21:51:38 Don't report read errors: Yes
    I 21:51:38 Intelligent Bad Sector Scanner: Yes
    I 21:51:40 CD contains CD-Text: No
    I 21:51:40 Reading Track 1... (Blocks 0-340984)
    I 21:52:09 Fast Error Skip has been enabled automatically!
    I 21:59:24 Fast Error Skip has been disabled automatically!
    I 22:17:14 Duration of operation: 00:25:33
    I 22:17:14 Average Speed: 521 kBytes/s (2.97)
    I 22:17:14 Reading finished!
    I 22:19:44 Starting copy from HL-DT-ST BD-RE BP50NB40 to D:\Zombie3\CDs\testclonecd4\DELTAFORCELW.ccd
    I 22:19:44 Read Speed for Data Tracks: Maximum
    I 22:19:44 Read Speed for Audio Tracks: Maximum
    I 22:19:44 Read SubChannel Data from Data Tracks: No
    I 22:19:44 Read SubChannel Data from Audio Tracks: No
    I 22:19:44 Fast Error Skip: Yes
    I 22:19:44 Don't report read errors: Yes
    I 22:19:44 Intelligent Bad Sector Scanner: Yes
    I 22:19:46 CD contains CD-Text: No
    I 22:19:46 Reading Track 1... (Blocks 0-340984)
    I 22:20:02 Fast Error Skip has been enabled automatically!
    I 22:27:16 Fast Error Skip has been disabled automatically!
    I 22:45:05 Duration of operation: 00:25:19
    I 22:45:05 Average Speed: 526 kBytes/s (2.99)
    I 22:45:05 Reading finished!
    I then find the new "DELTAFORCELW.img" file and right click >> "Mount Virtual CloneDrive (J:) which makes it available for me to then use another program "BurnAware Premium" (also in trial which expires today) to make an ISO.

    I boot up my Windows 98SE VM (VirtualBox) and add my DELTAFORCE.iso file as a CD drive
    I login to Windows 98SE and start the Delta Force Land Warrior Game from start (the installation never had a problem with the iso so it must not check until you try to launch the game)

    Error title: "Cannot locate the CD-ROM"
    Dialogue says: "Please insert the correct CD-ROM, select OK and restart the application"

    If I then shutdown the VM
    Add the real physical disc (using my LG Blu-Ray player) and load up Delta Force Land Warrior again, the application does not complain about the CD and starts the game.

    I had a thought of perhaps mounting the img to CloneDrive and then sharing that resource as a CD rom drive with Virtual Machine
    I ended up with some illegal operation in windows when I try to launch the game.
    "DFLW causes an invalid page fault in module ~DF394B.TMP at 0167:1001b2a9"

    I then tried again without passthrough enabled in the VM drive options

    ... then it worked! :D

    Soooooo...

    Five questions spring to mind

    1. What is the difference between an ISO and IMG file and which one should I be using?
    2. Was it CloneDrive that was managing to mimic the protection layer all by itself?
    3. Did CloneDrive just simulate it from what it cloned from the original CD?
    4. Or was all of this copy protection actually just in the IMG file itself and I could have used an virtual drive to mount that image?
    5. Was it the conversion to ISO that removed the copy protection (is this part of the file format) or was it down to BurnAware Premium not able to handle/copy the protection layer?


    Cheers
    Dal
     
  4. Dal1980

    Dal1980 New Member

    This post is more of an FYI

    I've started with my other CD's now

    Wizardry 8
    Only CD3 (the last CD) has failed to copy on my previous attempt at making an ISO. This time I'm trying to with CloneCD so fingers crossed. At the time of writing it has made it all the way to 98% which is where is gets funny. There's noises coming from my drive that I've heard no optical reader ever make in the 24 years I've been using them :eek:

    Remaining Discs

    Oni
    Fallout 2
    The Movies (this is a DVD rom actually)
    Tiger Woods PGA 2000
    Z Steel Soldiers (the first Z copied great)
    Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2
    Age of Empires Collectors Edition - Age of Empires 2 (this was part of a 3 disc collection and only the first AOE copied)
    Age of Empires Collectors Edition - Age of Empires 2 Conquerors
    Screamer (disappointingly my Screamer Rally copied just fine which is the crap version)
    Motocross Madness 2

    Fingers crossed I can finish backing up my collection as I'm so close
    I think I have a ton more in the loft but they will all be DVD's... may need to buy CloneDVD instead
     
  5. mmdavis

    mmdavis Well-Known Member

    CloneDVD is for video discs only, doesn't work with games, but CloneCD will work on DVD as well. You just can't re-author a DVD.
     
    Dal1980 likes this.
  6. StoneyJSG

    StoneyJSG Well-Known Member

    Have you tried making a 1:1 copy using clone CD only with out using a virtual machine or making an .ISO file? I haven't used clone CD in years, but if I remember right .ISO and .IMG are pretty much the same, just one is more universal like you could load an .ISO file into the free burning program called IMGBURN and burn it to disc. It can accept .IMG files too I think. You may also want to try the setting "read sub channel data".
     
  7. Dal1980

    Dal1980 New Member

    Hi StoneyJSG, I'm attempting to backup my CD's and not replicate them on the same media as I won't have easy access to CD Drives where I'm going (the future :D). For some reason it seems to work better adding the image to the Clone Virtual Drive and then serving that drive as a CD Rom drive to the VM. Doing it any other way fails and although this resolved the issue I need to test that it works consistently across all discs.

    Since this is all retro-gaming having my library held on my HDD/SSD ready just to simulate the CD-Rom is fine for my needs, my questions were simply trying to understand why at this stage.

    I'll conclude this thread when I've had a chance to test more of my discs.

    FYI Wizardry 8 (disc 3) finally finished but it took a long while. There were others that took more than 5 hours but some where straight forward. I'm feeling confident the situation is resolved.