TMT3 Build 170

[barco]

Haven't I just replied to this in another thread?

You sure did, I just didnt think you read this one so I posted in the 1.8.6.4 thread aswell. Thanks!

 

[James]

That's awesome that you have it set up that well now. James would have to answer your question on framerate. That's really odd.

Actually it is not so odd if you understand how ReClock works.

ReClock has 3 "speed modes", it "locks" to:
NTSC, PAL and CINEMA. NTSC is 60fps, PAL is 50, CINEMA is 24. (or multiples thereof).
In Video settings you specify "maximum and minimum" slowdown allowed to "lock" (with a green notification icon) to a refresh rate.

E.g. you play PAL on a display with 23.976Hz refresh rate, but allow 5% speed down, the PAL material will of course be played with 23.976fps.
(Like most PAL discs should be played.... )

On a 24Hz display it would play with 24fps. On a 24.10Hz display it would play with 24.10fps.

Same is of course true for 23.976fps material. Should ReClock display "playing at 23.976fps" if your display is 23.976Hz? Maybe. But if the display is 24.10Hz? 24.01Hz? 23.59? You shouldn't care, ReClock will sync playback to the refresh rate. What ReClock is saying: "I found CINEMA stuff and I'll playback it around 24fps" (and if you are intelligent enough and have read the manual, you know that it'll sync it to the refresh rate, even if the refresh rate drifts).
And to make it perfectly clear: 23.976fps is an INCORRECT speed. This speed is requirted for 3:2 pulldown NTSC backward compatibility (and BD supports 24fps native, in addition to 23.976).
It is ridiculous if people try to tweak their refresh rate to 23.976. It isn't as wrong as the 25(50)Hz in PAL countries, but it's still wrong.
Cinema speed is 24fps. If you set your refresh rate to 24Hz (or multiples thereof), playback will be done at the correct CINEMA speed of (drumroll) 24fps.

 

[James]

NTSC, PAL and CINEMA. NTSC is 60fps, PAL is 50, CINEMA is 24. (or multiples thereof).

Actually, that's not quite correct. It takes multiples of 25 for PAL, and maybe 59.94 for NTSC.

 

[barco]

And to make it perfectly clear: 23.976fps is an INCORRECT speed. This speed is requirted for 3:2 pulldown NTSC backward compatibility (and BD supports 24fps native, in addition to 23.976).
It is ridiculous if people try to tweak their refresh rate to 23.976. It isn't as wrong as the 25(50)Hz in PAL countries, but it's still wrong.
Cinema speed is 24fps. If you set your refresh rate to 24Hz (or multiples thereof), playback will be done at the correct CINEMA speed of (drumroll) 24fps.

But reclock always states 23.976 as video input, but you are saying that is not how it is stored on the disc? Very interesting!

 

[James]

But reclock always states 23.976 as video input, but you are saying that is not how it is stored on the disc? Very interesting!

It is how it is stored on the disc. But it isn't how it was filmed.
Even worse with PAL, where ReClock would say 25.000.

EDIT:
With ReClock *it doesn't matter* how it is stored on the disc. *You* are in charge, you can playback with every speed you like. My favorite is 24fps, because it usually is the *correct* speed (very important for most PAL discs).

 

[SamuriHL]

Actually it is not so odd if you understand how ReClock works.

ReClock has 3 "speed modes", it "locks" to:
NTSC, PAL and CINEMA. NTSC is 60fps, PAL is 50, CINEMA is 24. (or multiples thereof).
In Video settings you specify "maximum and minimum" slowdown allowed to "lock" (with a green notification icon) to a refresh rate.

E.g. you play PAL on a display with 23.976Hz refresh rate, but allow 5% speed down, the PAL material will of course be played with 23.976fps.
(Like most PAL discs should be played.... )

On a 24Hz display it would play with 24fps. On a 24.10Hz display it would play with 24.10fps.

Same is of course true for 23.976fps material. Should ReClock display "playing at 23.976fps" if your display is 23.976Hz? Maybe. But if the display is 24.10Hz? 24.01Hz? 23.59? You shouldn't care, ReClock will sync playback to the refresh rate. What ReClock is saying: "I found CINEMA stuff and I'll playback it around 24fps" (and if you are intelligent enough and have read the manual, you know that it'll sync it to the refresh rate, even if the refresh rate drifts).
And to make it perfectly clear: 23.976fps is an INCORRECT speed. This speed is requirted for 3:2 pulldown NTSC backward compatibility (and BD supports 24fps native, in addition to 23.976).
It is ridiculous if people try to tweak their refresh rate to 23.976. It isn't as wrong as the 25(50)Hz in PAL countries, but it's still wrong.
Cinema speed is 24fps. If you set your refresh rate to 24Hz (or multiples thereof), playback will be done at the correct CINEMA speed of (drumroll) 24fps.

Thanks for the explanation. That makes a lot of sense. My bedroom machine is set to 24 (not 23.976) so this has a lot of value to me. However, with my 4850, TMT3 is still giving me sync problems at 24 which annoys the hell out of me. It's a messy combination of things as PDVD9 is silky smooth with or without ReClock (surprisingly). But even with ReClock I can't get TMT3 and 24 to play nice on that machine. I get visible stutter in a lot of places during Watchmen, for example.

 

[James]

But even with ReClock I can't get TMT3 and 24 to play nice on that machine. I get visible stutter in a lot of places during Watchmen, for example.

This is ... not good. ReClock notification icon shows "green" aka "all is well"?

 

[Jong]

Actually it is not so odd if you understand how ReClock works.

ReClock has 3 "speed modes", it "locks" to:
NTSC, PAL and CINEMA. NTSC is 60fps, PAL is 50, CINEMA is 24. (or multiples thereof).
In Video settings you specify "maximum and minimum" slowdown allowed to "lock" (with a green notification icon) to a refresh rate.

E.g. you play PAL on a display with 23.976Hz refresh rate, but allow 5% speed down, the PAL material will of course be played with 23.976fps.
(Like most PAL discs should be played.... )

On a 24Hz display it would play with 24fps. On a 24.10Hz display it would play with 24.10fps.

Same is of course true for 23.976fps material. Should ReClock display "playing at 23.976fps" if your display is 23.976Hz? Maybe. But if the display is 24.10Hz? 24.01Hz? 23.59? You shouldn't care, ReClock will sync playback to the refresh rate. What ReClock is saying: "I found CINEMA stuff and I'll playback it around 24fps" (and if you are intelligent enough and have read the manual, you know that it'll sync it to the refresh rate, even if the refresh rate drifts).
And to make it perfectly clear: 23.976fps is an INCORRECT speed. This speed is requirted for 3:2 pulldown NTSC backward compatibility (and BD supports 24fps native, in addition to 23.976).
It is ridiculous if people try to tweak their refresh rate to 23.976. It isn't as wrong as the 25(50)Hz in PAL countries, but it's still wrong.
Cinema speed is 24fps. If you set your refresh rate to 24Hz (or multiples thereof), playback will be done at the correct CINEMA speed of (drumroll) 24fps.

http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?p=155937#post155937

I think it would be a lot clearer and we would not have to keep answering this question

By the way, I think the other reason to use 23.976 is if that is what your display expects. From what I have seen modern displays do not seem to "sync" like old style CRTs they are likely to crudely drop/repeat frames on their own (all "green" as far as the PC is concerned). You need to obey the timings in the EDID.

 

[barco]

http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?p=155937#post155937

I think it would be a lot clearer and we would not have to keep answering this question

By the way, I think the other reason to use 23.976 is if that is what your display expects. From what I have seen modern displays do not seem to "sync" like old style CRTs they are likely to crudely drop/repeat frames on their own (all "green" as far as the PC is concerned). You need to obey the timings in the EDID.

Actually, if using Windows 7 or Vista, you dont have to obey EDID. I didnt and used the EDID override possibility in Windows 7 and Vista. I made a small guide http://www.bredbild.se/edid. However as you say, modern digital display might not like what you feed them anyway.

I must admit that I am still confused if I should use 48Hz or 47.952Hz. Reclock will say the same thing as I understand it. 48Hz seems like the way to go.

 

[Jong]

There are reasons to override EDID, but changing video timings that your TV says it supports, in particular in a way that alters refresh rates, is not one of them. As I said, even if it accepts the timing it will most likely very crudely repeat/drop frames to match its internally accepted rates.

 

[SamuriHL]

This is ... not good. ReClock notification icon shows "green" aka "all is well"?

No, it's yellow throughout the entire movie. Something appears to be wrong.

 

[James]

No, it's yellow throughout the entire movie. Something appears to be wrong.

So, open the ReClock properties via the notification icon and check what is wrong...

EDIT: If it is yellow, this means ReClock does not sync, so you will certainly see stutter.

 

[theshadowrunner]

I must admit that I am still confused if I should use 48Hz or 47.952Hz. Reclock will say the same thing as I understand it. 48Hz seems like the way to go.

You shouldn't be.
If your display frequency is eg 24.726, Reclock will modify the framerate so playback matches this exact value. Same for 23.182 or pretty much any value around 24hz. The 24.000 message is generic.

 

[Jong]

..and, unless you have leeperry's magic ears, you will never know the difference!

 

[SamuriHL]

So, open the ReClock properties via the notification icon and check what is wrong...

EDIT: If it is yellow, this means ReClock does not sync, so you will certainly see stutter.

Just tried it again. Now it's green and in perfect sync. :bang: Not sure what happened yesterday with it. I'll keep an eye on it and see if it happens again.

 

[thedatman]

Just tried it again. Now it's green and in perfect sync. :bang: Not sure what happened yesterday with it. I'll keep an eye on it and see if it happens again.

mine is always yellow. Like everything I have no idea how to set it up.:bang:

My computer has 2 displays my monitor in the equipment room and my RPTV 1080i using a HDfury2 for the HDMI output. This set only can handle a 1080i signal. If switch to another hdmi input the CCC turns the display off and when I turn it back on they always default to 60hz and my monitor can't handle the signal. So as far as I can tell I need to stay at 30i hz. If so can I change reclock to work with this refresh rate

 

[SamuriHL]

mine is always yellow. Like everything I have no idea how to set it up.:bang:

My computer has 2 displays my monitor in the equipment room and my RPTV 1080i using a HDfury2 for the HDMI output. This set only can handle a 1080i signal. If switch to another hdmi input the CCC turns the display off and when I turn it back on they always default to 60hz and my monitor can't handle the signal. So as far as I can tell I need to stay at 30i hz. If so can I change reclock to work with this refresh rate

I think James or someone else would have to chime in on this one. ReClock is not an area I'm all that good with. Still learning myself. I would IMAGINE it could probably do what you want but I don't know. You could attempt to use an EDID override to force the refresh rate but that's not overly recommended, either.

 

[leeperry]

..and, unless you have leeperry's magic ears, you will never know the difference!

w/ your magic eyes to catch the VSYNC position on the spot, and my magic ears...we should run a show, we'd make millions! :agree:

if you A/B and listen carefully to a song, you'll easily be able to detect the 0.1% slow down.

it's also quite easy to detect on speech(in your fav. movie for instance)...everything's too damn slow! :bang:

it feels like a screwed up revox reel to reel:

 

[thedatman]

I think James or someone else would have to chime in on this one. ReClock is not an area I'm all that good with. Still learning myself. I would IMAGINE it could probably do what you want but I don't know. You could attempt to use an EDID override to force the refresh rate but that's not overly recommended, either.

Yes I'm correct with the 1080i monitor turned off I set ccc to 24 hz and reclock started blinking green / red continuesly and when I when into the other room and turned on the set, the picture was wigged out telling me it's a 480i. Best I can tell I won't be able to use reclock to the fullest with this set.

 

[thedatman]

if take it off automatic and set it to 60fps in reclock properties it goes green