Subtitles question

Discussion in 'CloneBD' started by Nathan Miller, Jul 4, 2017.

  1. Nathan Miller

    Nathan Miller Member

    Sorry for the newb question but this is my first time using CloneBD. I'm a veteran CloneDVD user from the Slysoft days and now I'm moving to CloneBD as it appears the product has matured. I have a couple questions for things I'm trying to understand the purpose and operation of:

    - When making an MKV I have the option of "with selectable subtitles" or "with permanent subtitles" and I'm trying to figure out what the real difference is and what is the purpose of that selection? I cannot find good documentation or any posts on it anywhere. It seems to only show a difference in Player mode and in that mode it just changes my ability to select a single option (selectable circles) vs. multiple (square boxes)....but what is the purpose of that? I'm obviously missing something.

    - My second question is around forced subtitles. I know this feature was added not too long ago but I was wondering what this feature did. Meaning. I know I can select subtitle tracks when in player mode and some of those are forced subtitles. I guess my question is what did the forced subtitles feature add to improve my ability to select it manually? Does it have some ability to identify forced subtitle tracks and highlight them to the user (me) as I'm not seeing it in my Star Wars BD...as an example. Would love it if someone could shed some light here around how this feature mention below works?

    1.1.2.0 2017-01-20
    - Added grace period until end of February 2017 for expired licenses
    - New: support forced subtitles

    - Can I only get granular in my subtitle selection when in player mode? It seems I can only select a language, which includes all subtitle tracks in that language, unless I'm in player mode where I can select individual tracks. Didn't know if I had to go into player mode to work on this.

    Thanks everyone!
     
  2. nebostrangla

    nebostrangla Well-Known Member

    Please see these excellent tutorial's made by @tectpro that should explain some of the questions.

    https://forum.redfox.bz/forums/tutorials.103/

    If you need anything else after you seen the tutorial. Please feel free to ASK.

    Also remember that some of the settings that can be changed. Are for personal preference. And really require trial and error testing by the user. To determine what is the best way to get what you want.
     
    Nathan Miller likes this.
  3. Nathan Miller

    Nathan Miller Member

    Thanks for your quick response, and that did help in my understanding of permanent vs. selectable. It also helped me find the settings button so I didn't need to get into the player in order to get more granular with my selection.

    The part I'm still a bit confused on is Forced Subtitles and, from my reading, it appears that I'm not alone. I guess I'd better understand what the subtitles checkbox "forced only" is actually doing inside the application. The reason I ask is, as an example, Star Wars episode 4 has an actual subtitles track that is *only* for the different alien language subtitles (I'm guessing these are forced subtitles?). In this case the "forced only" option doesn't seem like it would be beneficial. So I'm gonna take a guess here and say that the "forced only" option is for movies that only have a single English Subtitles track and I only want it to copy the forced subtitles only? How can it tell there are forced subtitles? Is there some flag it reads and, if so, do all movies have these flags? From what I've read it doesn't sound like there is a standard that all movie makers follow. So knowing what that subtitles checkbox "forced only" does inside the application (under the hood) would really be beneficial in understanding.

    Thanks again everyone for helping me understand!
     
  4. Ch3vr0n

    Ch3vr0n Translator NL & Mod

    Forced means where another language in the movie is spoken then the one selected through the menu, and language subtitles appear only for that section of the movie.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P with Tapatalk
     
  5. Nathan Miller

    Nathan Miller Member

    Thank you. I do understand that portion, but in my example above using Star Ward Episode 4 I had selected the primary English Subtitles (in permanent mode) which includes what would normally be considered forced (As an example Jabba speaking) and then selected the forced only option assuming it would not burn in the rest of the subtitles and only the forced ones. What I got was zero subtitles throughout the entire movie. I then found the very last English Subtitle (permanent again) track was actually what would be considered forced subtitles and I selected the forced only option again just to test my theory. This time it gave me the forced subtitles, and didn't erase any of them like the previous version did, but honestly I didn't need the forced only option because I selected a track that only had forced subtitles. So this is why I'm trying to understand where the forced only option would be a benefit as I couldn't see it in this example but I'm sure it serves some purpose :) I could see the benefit if I, as an example, was able to select ALL English Subtitles (if there was more than one) or if there was just one English Subtitles soundtrack mixed with Forced and Non-Forced and it would remove the Non-Forced. This is why I'm trying to better understand how it works under the hood. Is there a flag it follows? How does it know? If there was more than one subtitle track I couldn't do permanent since that option only allows you to select a single track, so it would have to be selective in my player...in my case Plex...and if that was the case it would be a pain even if it only select the forced since I'd need to still select the right subtitle track in my Plex player.

    I hope my goal and explanations for attempting to better understand this are clear :)

    Thanks!
     
  6. Reto

    Reto Elaborate Bytes AG

    I believe I can clear that up for you.

    You are right in your assumption, that the "forced only" checkbox should make all non-forced subtitles go away. And normally that is how it works.
    The problem with the specific disc you're using there (SW IV) is that it doesn't use the forced-flag in subtitles.
    Instead it has an entirely separated subtitle track used for the "forced only" presentation.

    You can verify that in the preview player - skip to the "Jabba scene" and select the different English subtitles. One of the last ones in the list should be the forced ones.
    So you'll have to activate that, if you want forced subtitles only.

    The problem with this scenario is, that there is no simple way of automatically telling how forced subtitles are handled.
    That would require a complete scan of the video material prior to processing or even letting you select a track and you don't want to wait at least 20 minutes just to know how to select forced subtitles.

    So for now, the only option is to use the preview player and look for yourself.
    We are thinking about ways to let CloneBD assist.
     
    Nathan Miller and nebostrangla like this.