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Subtitles but only when needed?

DQ

DQ

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OK I find myself confused about something. There is probably a simple solution but it's just something I do not understand fully.

I normally steer clear of subtitles because I do not use them and anytime I have fooled with them I can NEVER get them right.

So in Handbrake ,in particular, I delete them off before I transcode the title. However, I have found a few movies where during the movie there might be a scene or 2 that are in another language. I suspect there are subtitles that should be playing but I don't see them because I delete them off?

Can anyone please enlighten me on how to make those work?

Prime Example, "Kill Bill Vol 1". The scene where the Japanese mob bosses are together and speaking Japanese. I see no subtitles but I suspect (and I think I remember) they should be there.

Thanks
 
DQ said:
Prime Example, "Kill Bill Vol 1". The scene where the Japanese mob bosses are together and speaking Japanese. I see no subtitles but I suspect (and I think I remember) they should be there.
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Those are called "Forced" subtitles. I know in CloneDVD there is a listing for Subtitles and Forced Subtitles. I would assume Handbrake does the same.
https://handbrake.fr/docs/en/latest/advanced/subtitles.html
 
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So yeah. I don't get it. In using Handbrake I am selecting everything I think needs to be selected to see these subtitles and they just don't show. This is on a Blu-Ray so I assume I cannot use CloneDVD and while I own CloneBD I cannot use it because I have an AMD GPU.
 
DQ said:
So yeah. I don't get it. In using Handbrake I am selecting everything I think needs to be selected to see these subtitles and they just don't show. This is on a Blu-Ray so I assume I cannot use CloneDVD and while I own CloneBD I cannot use it because I have an AMD GPU.
Click to expand...
You might get a better answer here:
https://forum.handbrake.fr/
 
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Well, I found a number of posts on the handbrake forum and I tried everything but the only time I can get subtitles is if I burn them on the whole movie. In other words, the whole "forced only" thing does not seem to work for me.

Before I post there and start that shenanigans, anyone here typically use Handbrake with forced subtitles?

Thanks
 
For anyone following this. I tried some of the same subtitle settings I was using on Kill Bill on another title that I knew had the forced subtitles where they only appeared when non-English (my default language) was being spoken. And it worked.

So I have 2 conclusions:
1) some titles don't play nice with subtitles
2) when using handbrake I will no longer delete the subtitle track and just leave them at default as that seems to work for most movies that use the forced ones (I gathered that from my limited experience and from much reading on the Handbrake forums)
3) CloneBD does a superior job in selecting the right playlist vs. Handbrake
(I hate that it does not work well with AMD GPUs at this time)
 
OK so I have now run this through CloneBD multiple times and I seem to get the same thing. No matter what I do I cannot get forced subtitles to work. I can get ALL subtitles through the whole movie or just none.

Anyone have any words of wisdom with this issue as it relates to CloneBD?
 
DQ said:
OK so I have now run this through CloneBD multiple times and I seem to get the same thing. No matter what I do I cannot get forced subtitles to work. I can get ALL subtitles through the whole movie or just none.

Anyone have any words of wisdom with this issue as it relates to CloneBD?
Click to expand...
Does it actually have any Forced subs? Can you play the original where you think Forced subs would be and do they work? I have watched some movies where someone is speaking a foreign language (usually just a line or two) and no subtitles were shown.
 
mmdavis said:
Does it actually have any Forced subs? Can you play the original where you think Forced subs would be and do they work? I have watched some movies where someone is speaking a foreign language (usually just a line or two) and no subtitles were shown.
Click to expand...

Good point. I was really just working off of memory. But I did load the disc and it does have forced subtitles in that scene. I have gotten forced to work on a few other titles I tested with but those same settings do not produce them on this one.
 
DQ said:
Good point. I was really just working off of memory. But I did load the disc and it does have forced subtitles in that scene. I have gotten forced to work on a few other titles I tested with but those same settings do not produce them on this one.
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Well, if they work on the original, then you should be able to get them. You may just have to trial and error settings and do some rips with different subs, then play the rip at the point where you know the Forced subs should be and see what works, or doesn't, until you get the desired result.
 
mmdavis said:
Well, if they work on the original, then you should be able to get them. You may just have to trial and error settings and do some rips with different subs, then play the rip at the point where you know the Forced subs should be and see what works, or doesn't, until you get the desired result.
Click to expand...

I tried every combo of settings in CloneBD I could think of. There just are not that many as it relates to subtitles. Nothing I did worked. Something is weird with this title. It even uses LPCM for audio which I have never seen before.
 
Forced subtitles come in 4 forms.

1. Burned into the video on original disc.

2. In the main subtitle track with the forced ones being marked as forced. If they are track one and the software marks the track correctly, they will show without effort.

3. A smaller only forced subtitles track that is controlled by the disc

4 . Other odd mixture but controlled by full disc logic

I use a utility called BluRay Ripper that identifies and helps with these use cases. It also assists in merging a forced only track into the main track. BRR was modeled after ClownBD in that it leverages eac3to and tsmuxer to demux and then remux but takes many steps beyond.

I’ve sent links for BRR to CloneBD’s authors asking they consider incorporating its capabilities but so far no word. I’m surprised because so many movies have forced subtitles and it remains ignored by otherwise great software.
 
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If you load up the relevant Blu-ray disc or folder in BDtoAVCHD (free) and hit "Scan Bitrates," it will tell you what tracks are forced or contain forced subtitles. Then, in HB, you can mark the track as "burn in" (if that's your goal). If the track contains forced subtitles, also check "forced only." If the entire track is forced, it doesn't matter (I usually leave it unchecked in this case).

But like hart2hart wrote, there are other possible variations. The forced subtitles may already be burnt into the video (in which case, you're done). A separate track may be dedicated to the forced subtitles, but not marked in any way. If I see multiple subtitles for my primary language and I'm not sure, I just extract all those tracks and visually inspect them. The size of the extracted track file will usually be a clue to whether or not its for forced subtitles (e.g., if it's for a few lines spoken in a foreign language, it will be very small like a few KB or less).

Hope that helps,
DrX
 
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DrXenos said:
If you load up the relevant Blu-ray disc or folder in BDtoAVCHD (free) and hit "Scan Bitrates," it will tell you what tracks are forced or contain forced subtitles. Then, in HB, you can mark the track as "burn in" (if that's your goal). If the track contains forced subtitles, also check "forced only." If the entire track is forced, it doesn't matter (I usually leave it unchecked in this case).

But like hart2hart wrote, there are other possible variations. The forced subtitles may already be burnt into the video (in which case, you're done). A separate track may be dedicated to the forced subtitles, but not marked in any way. If I see multiple subtitles for my primary language and I'm not sure, I just extract all those tracks and visually inspect them. The size of the extracted track file will usually be a clue to whether or not its for forced subtitles (e.g., if it's for a few lines spoken in a foreign language, it will be very small like a few KB or less).

Hope that helps,
DrX
Click to expand...

I appreciate all the info. In this case the movie only has 1 track that is the movie. It does list 2 English subtitles in Handbrake and I have tried both and unless they just are burned in for the whole movie I don't get anything.

Granted its just a short scene in the movie I am after the forced subtitles for. I just figure if I can sort this out I will know a lot more about it for the next time. Thanks.
 
DQ said:
I appreciate all the info. In this case the movie only has 1 track that is the movie. It does list 2 English subtitles in Handbrake and I have tried both and unless they just are burned in for the whole movie I don't get anything.

Granted its just a short scene in the movie I am after the forced subtitles for. I just figure if I can sort this out I will know a lot more about it for the next time. Thanks.
Click to expand...

There is also the odd chance that it was either not meant to be displayed normally, or that is was encoded incorrectly.

If you latter, you could extract and edit the track to contain only the subtitles you are interested in and remux it into the title.
 
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