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question about microsoft and anti-piracy

Discussion in 'AnyDVD HD (DVD issues)' started by Marylee, May 4, 2007.

  1. Marylee

    Marylee Member

    My brother keeps telling me that when you get windows updates... microsoft will know if you have programs like anydvd... and will turn you in to the feds. Any truth to this? I personally think they would be pretty darn busy if that were the case.
  2. DrinkLyeAndDie

    DrinkLyeAndDie Retired Moderator

    Your brother is either trying to make you paranoid or overly-paranoid himself. As idiotic as Microsoft is there is no evidence they do anything of the sort.
  3. James

    James Redfox Development Team Staff Member

    Bull. BTW, the feds won't be interested. It is no criminal offense to have AnyDVD on your machine.
  4. Marylee

    Marylee Member

    That's what I said... and yeah... little brother is paranoid... Has no problem bringing me movies he wants copied though. ;)

    He is afraid to buy anydvd and clonedvd... says big brother will know and fine him and take him off to jail. :p
  5. DrinkLyeAndDie

    DrinkLyeAndDie Retired Moderator

    Yeah, I have experience in that department. Gotta love siblings. :p

    I just make my siblings sign a contractual agreement when I make a backup for them of a movie they legally own. The terms of the contract are that in the event I wind up in jail because of making them a backup they are required to bake me a [edible and delightful tasting] cake in which they have carefully hidden a hacksaw blade so I can cut through the bars of my cell and then sneak out. ;)
  6. deaacs

    deaacs Well-Known Member

    I assume you're a yank from your reference to the "Feds"; since America has entirely separate law-enforcement agencies, which I don't really understand seeing as it's demonstrated that a system like ours (ie the AFP) works much better.

    Anyhow, in relation to your question, I don't think there's any doubt that under the DMCA which is US law programs like AnyDVD are certainly illegal. With that said, Microsoft certainly doesn't have the right to monitor your computer use, and they don't do so. Microsoft doesn't really care about things that don't directly affect them; like AnyDVD they care more about the piracy of Windows, MS Office and their own programs - which of course they have every right to be concerned about; however they don't have a right to treat all customers like criminals.

    Sony is the company that installed rootkits onto home computers to try and stop CD piracy, of course when they were found out they immediately apologized and removed all rootkit-enabled CD's off the market. It still stops me from buying Sony's CD's, because not only is installing malicious software without someone's consent and without including an installer completely immoral and illegal; in Australia we have parallel importing of books and CD's; thus JB HiFi or any other CD store can import US-released CD's for sale in Australia, therefore there's still the possibility of Sony's rootkit CD's in the market, and I don't like to roll dice.

    As I've said before, CD's and digital downloads are different, and even if digital downloads have DRM it's legal under Australian law to "format-shift" your CD's, but not digital downloads. This is fine by me, because it does strike a fair compromise between consumer rights and corporate rights; where digital downloads are a competing product that is cheaper then CD's you can't expect to have the same legal rights as CD's. Of course with "format shifting" now legal (as the Copyright Amendment Bill 2006 has been passed) it makes recording off the TV formally legal for the very first time in Australia (but it doesn't make it legal to keep these programs indefinitely).

    This is my post here at the very top: http://www.aussiearcade.com.au/showthread.php?t=4317&page=10 Which was a similar discussion (although only relating to Australian law); but of course it had lots of people talking about it without actually knowing anything in relation to their legal rights. Reading some of the new replies now I think I'll have to go back and explain more... I think even after providing a link to the copyright act I'm the still the only one who's read it! What's the point of arguing over copyright legislation if you haven't even read the copyright act?

    Anyway, Vista's licensing is certainly worrying but not in relation to do with "Big Brother". Personally I think worse their DRM and their WGA is their two-tier marketing strategy. Until XP they only released one product. One version of Win2000, WinME, Win98, Win95, Win3.11, Win3.1, Win3.0, MS-DOS 6.22, MS-DOS 6.2, MS-DOS 6.0, MS-DOS 5.0, MS-DOS 3.0, etc. Lot's of versions, yes, but only ONE, not two like WinXP Home/Pro where one is crippled, and certainly not 6 versions like they have with Vista.
  7. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    Got Anydvd?
  8. deaacs

    deaacs Well-Known Member

    Just so you know what you're talking about, AnyDVD doesn't prevent the installation, nor remove the rootkit itself; only prevents it from disabling your ability to copy the CD - again it does not remove the rootkit if installed.
  9. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator


    Anydvd does prevent the installation; Anydvd disables autorun when a cd is inserted, provided
    "Remove CD Digital Audio Protection" is enabled in Anydvd (that feature is enabled by default in Anydvd). When you disable that setting in Anydvd, autorun will load. What I've written here is easily verified by using an enhanced cd.

    Perhaps you could quote where I said Anydvd removed the rootkit.
    Last edited: May 4, 2007
  10. DrinkLyeAndDie

    DrinkLyeAndDie Retired Moderator

    1. Yes, it can prevent the installation of the rootkit by not allowing it to run [or be installed] when the disc is accessed
    2. My understanding is AnyDVD likely ignores the garbage and gives you access to the native TOC of a CD. EAC used to ignore garbage and only see the native TOC before the author yanked it to avoid possible legal issues later.
    3. No one ever said AnyDVD would remove the Sony rootkit after it is installed on a system. Please give me info on where Slysoft said this.

    I'm not an expert on this subject and won't claim to be one but I disagree with your statements. Please show me some evidence to prove what you're saying. Up to now what you are saying is wrong.
    Last edited: May 4, 2007
  11. oldjoe

    oldjoe Well-Known Member

    As others have said, no MS does not track anything on your PC by receiving their updates. If there is any concern on your part....do not accept their updates.
  12. oldjoe

    oldjoe Well-Known Member

    The U.S. has so many law enforcement agencies so our government can have more control over our lives. :D
  13. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    And if you're an American who is really concerned, read this
  14. deaacs

    deaacs Well-Known Member

    Anyone can disable their auto-run without AnyDVD; are you suggesting that AnyDVD would prevent the installation if someone was (out of ignorance) to run the setup directly?
    I simply wanted to make the point that the security risks involved with having rootkits in your system does not disappear simply because the rootkit is unable to do its job. The link suggested that running AnyDVD was a solution if you have the rootkit installed: it's not. It's a solution to copy the CD; but that's not the most worrying thing about rootkits.
    I know a lot about system security, including rootkits. Any existing virus or trojan or malware can use an existing rootkit (without installing its own) to cloak its presence on a consumer's PC; from there it can transmit sensitive data including credit card numbers, usernames and passwords; etc. Sony's rootkit does not do this itself, but it opens the door for other viruses/worms/trojans to do it; cloaked and completely hidden (ie it will not show up in Taskmanager, or in 3rd-party task managers like Sysinternals Process Explorer). This means on a difficulty scale of 1-10 where 1 represents that home users can identify and remove it with no problems, and 8 represents that you would need to seek an IT professional/repair service to have it removed; and 10 represents that even computer repairmen may not find it - it makes the difficulty 10.

    A rootkit is basically a virus by definition; and it allows your computer to be infected with more viruses; AnyDVD prevents Sony's rootkit (while installed) from performing its copy-protection function; but it does not prevent it from allowing more infections from other viruses to use it to hide on a victim's PC.

    Further reading: http://blogs.technet.com/markrussinovich/archive/
  15. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    Yes, provided they know what they're doing . . .
    So why would you be "roll[ing] the dice" at all?

    No. He's not. Are you implying the average person would know how to block autorun (which is a far more likely culprit for the rootkit ending up on someone's system)? Anydvd blocks autorun automatically for the average person; consequently, Anydvd blocks automatic installation of the rootkit upon inserting the disc. Then the average person can use EAC to rip the disc.

    The link never suggests Anydvd removes the rootkit. Your interpretation runs counter to what is actually stated:

    "If AnyDVD is installed and active on a PC, this new so-called
    "Sony DRM Rootkit Virus" has no access to the operating system and the affected audio CD appears unprotected regardless!"

    Anydvd isn't responsible for removing trojans--nor rootkits. And if a trojan is on someone's system to begin with, then that person's system has bigger issues than the addition of a rootkit.

    Oh, the same person who raised an issue about Daemon Tools and Alcohol 120%

    another interesting thread
    Last edited: May 5, 2007
  16. DrinkLyeAndDie

    DrinkLyeAndDie Retired Moderator

    I always disable auto-run on any system I use but not everyone knows how to do this. And most people who don't know all that much tend to also not use Explorer to go to their CD/DVD drive and manually run an executable file. AnyDVD can disable this for both CDs and DVDs. That's a nice feature for people who don't know about auto-run features.

    Yes, rootkits are a danger but you misinterpreted what AnyDVD does. By disabling auto-run [as a feature of AnyDVD] on CDs or DVDs is that it is removing the chance of the rootkit ever being installed via auto-run from a CD or DVD. It has never been stated that once installed AnyDVD will disable or remove a rootkit. AnyDVD is not a security solution. This is just a part of the program that makes sense for many non-security reasons. It also turns out that the existing feature of not allowing auto-run did, in fact, stop the Sony rootkit from being installed.

    There will always be people who end up with things on their systems through ignorance, stupidity, cluelessness, or just dumb luck. For those people who just pop in a CD/DVD w/o thinking and are not the most computer savvy then this is highly beneficial feature.

    Your knowledge and the information are helpful [and I snipped it because I wanted this post to not be an insane length when it didn't need to be] but when I said I wasn't an expert I wasn't saying I was clueless, either. I just don't profess to be an expert.

    My point in my reply was that although I understand what you were saying is that you incorrectly interpreted what AnyDVD does in this case. AnyDVD is essentially supposed to be a K.I.S.S. software program that removes protections from DVDs [and basic CD protection] but it also is highly technical w/o the user having to be an engineer to use it.

    A majority of the people I know don't ever disable auto-run on their PCs. These same people seem almost proud when they declare they haven't updated their AV program definition files in 6 months. These same people don't even know what in heck a rootkit is. I gave up wasting my time on trying to help them very long ago because they really don't care. So, while this feature is maybe not necessary for those more intelligent PC users it is very helpful for those people who, frankly, don't even know that AnyDVD happened to save them some time and trouble down the road.
    Last edited: May 5, 2007
  17. deaacs

    deaacs Well-Known Member

    You've missed the ENTIRE point of the article; which never even mentioned that AnyDVD can disable the autoplay feature on CD's (which is an ordinary Windows feature; so there's no need to attribute it to AnyDVD), but that AnyDVD allows Sony CD's to be copied even while their rootkit is installed. As I've explained, this is a poor solution; as it doesn't remove the rootkit.
    Not really, considering Sony no longer uses rootkits, and EMI has publicly stated they won't use rootkits.
    Not really; there are two types of DVD decryption - those that do it when playing a file or copying a file (the former are typically your licensed PowerDVD products and the latter being the unauthorised software created by scallywags for "back-up" like DVD Decrypter), and then there's the decrypters which remove copy protection to allow native unencrypted access to the disc content for other 3rd party software; or to allow native copying of files from windows Explorer; AnyDVD falls into this category as does DVDIdle's "DVD Region+CSS Free" product. Thus it acts a layer between interaction with the disc; thereby thwarting Sony's rootkit as its access is now pushed down the ladder so-to-speak (it receives the disc information through AnyDVD instead of directly from the applicable Windows DVD-drive driver). Is that a good enough explanation?
  18. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    You were the one who initially stated "AnyDVD doesn't prevent the installation", when, in fact, it does by blocking autorun when the cd is inserted. The source and point of contention here lies with you--and not the article.

    Disabling autoplay on either cds or dvds is a feature that's offered in Anydvd; simply because you can do it via other means doesn't negate what Anydvd can do by default.

    No one ever said it did. And provided you have Anydvd running, the rootkit won't install in the first place when the cd is inserted (which is the most common method for having it end up on systems). Even if the rootkit is installed Anydvd still allows you to backup the cd. Regardless, no one ever stated having the XCP rootkit on one's system was desirable.

    And, again, Anydvd is not intended to remove trojans, viruses, and rootkits.

    I'm still wondering why you would be "roll[ing] the dice", then.

    If you wish to misinterpret the intent of the article, that's certainly your choice, but please don't presume everyone else is.
    Last edited: May 5, 2007