PS1/PSone backups

[ploder]

Trying to backup my games and my CD burner supports burning at x1-x4 but can't burn with RAW DAO (only RAW SAO, RAW SAO+SUB and TAO). Which supported method is best for PS1 backups on my modded console if at all?

Here is a screen capture of the options available to me:

 

[slamscaper945]

As far as I can remember, as long as your optical drive can write p and q SUB channel data it can burn a working psx backup. I think they're may be a few games that used enhanced protection but I don't know which ones for sure.

I never backed up psx games myself, but I have burned over 60+ for my modded xbox so I did my share of research. CloneCD should be able to backup almost all psx games just by using the standard "protected game CD" profile and using RAW SAO+SUB mode when writing.

The SUB data is key in these backups, RAW DAO shouldn't be needed in this case (RAW SAO+SUB will be sufficient). Just be sure the option to "allow reading SUB channel data from tracks" is ticked before creating the image. I think the "protected game CD" profile reads the SUB channel data by default, but I'd check anyway to be safe.

EDIT: After thinking this over I did a little research on this. It turns out that RAW SAO+SUB will not write the p and q SUB channel data. This mode is used only for CD+G backups as the writer will still generate most of the SUB channel data in this mode including the p and q, which matters most for LibCrypt protected psx games. You would need a burner that supports at least RAW SAO 16 (sometimes called DAO 16) and an image with all the .SUB channel data to successfully make a backup of a psx LibCrypt protected psx game. I would think a non-LibCrypt protected game would work fine though on a modded psx. Sorry, I confused RAW SAO+SUB with RAW SAO 16. It's been a while since I've backed up CDs in RAW mode.

You should think about biting the bullet and purchasing a new mult-format burner. You can get what you need for as little as $25 USD. All the new mult-format burners support RAW DAO/96, and not to mention have DVD_RW support as well. This hardware is affordable to almost anyone.

 

[Chris Gonzales]

PSX PS1 Libcrypt Copy Modchip CloneCD

The Libcrypt protected PSX (PS1) CDs can be copied with CloneCD. They contain up to 94 bytes subchannel data. A lot of PS1 CDs are unprotected, though.

You can use either RAW DAO or RAW SAO+SUB, the result should be the same. The appropriate profile for reading and writing is "Game CD".
The Playstation has to be equipped with a mod chip, otherwise it doesn't accept burned media.

Cheers

 

[ploder]

First of all thanks for replying. I can't tell you how difficult it is to get a straight answer on this issue.

You would need a burner that supports at least RAW SAO 16 (sometimes called DAO 16) and an image with all the .SUB channel data to successfully make a backup of a psx LibCrypt protected psx game.

How do you find out whether your optical drive can support RAW SAO 16? my drive is pretty old now (1999) and the help manual doesn't state this kind of info.

You should think about biting the bullet and purchasing a new mult-format burner. You can get what you need for as little as $25 USD. All the new mult-format burners support RAW DAO/96, and not to mention have DVD_RW support as well. This hardware is affordable to almost anyone.

I don't really want to buy another drive just for a few backups. The irony is that my bro has a Sony DVD/CD writer that supports RAW DAO, but it turns out it can't burn below x8! I tried burning my copy of Valkyrie Profile and it worked (kinda) only the PS1 laser couldn't read the disc very well and I couldn't get more than 5 mins into the game! That's why I'm using this old Yamaha drive that supports x1 speed.

You can use either RAW DAO or RAW SAO+SUB

So, another contradictory opinion. Some people say RAW SAO+SUB is enough and others say RAW SAO 16. I really don't want to be burning coasters with the better quality CDRs.

*EDIT*
I tried to burn my game image .ccd , .img + .sub using cloneCD using RAW SAO+SUB at x1 speed using the game profile and got a hardware error. The disc then ejected and is a coaster. Here is CloneCD log:

Why did this happen?

 

[slamscaper945]

How do you find out whether your optical drive can support RAW SAO 16? my drive is pretty old now (1999) and the help manual doesn't state this kind of info.

If CloneCD lets you choose either RAW SAO 16 or RAW DAO (pretty sure CloneCD just calls both options "RAW DAO") then your drive supports this feature. I guess it's possible that your drive could support this mode but is not technically supported by CloneCD, however this would be unlikely. Alternatively, you could use a program like Nero InfoTool to detect the supported write modes of your drive. Nero InfoTool is really accurate in my experience. It should definitely show you ALL the write modes supported by your optical drive.

I don't really want to buy another drive just for a few backups. The irony is that my bro has a Sony DVD/CD writer that supports RAW DAO, but it turns out it can't burn below x8! I tried burning my copy of Valkyrie Profile and it worked (kinda) only the PS1 laser couldn't read the disc very well and I couldn't get more than 5 mins into the game! That's why I'm using this old Yamaha drive that supports x1 speed.

I see your point, but you would get so much more than just a few psx backups. For example, you would be able to backup your DVD collection using Anydvd and CloneCD/CloneDVD. Backing up data would also be easier as you can fit five times the amount of data on a SL DVD-R as opposed to a CD-R. SL DVD-R blanks are very cheap nowadays, even for quality media.

By the way, did you try a different type of media with your brothers Sony DVD/CD writer? Maybe it just doesn't like the media you used and you would have better luck with something else. It's always good to try a few different types whenever you get burns that are "almost good". Switching to a different type of media may be all you need to make working backups. Some drives are really picky, especially if the FW was never updated in it's lifetime. It does sound like you were playing a LibCrypt protected game though, as LibCrypt was known to crash the game after a short while if it detected a copy was being played.

So, another contradictory opinion. Some people say RAW SAO+SUB is enough and others say RAW SAO 16. I really don't want to be burning coasters with the better quality CDRs.

I stand by my statement I made earlier. RAW SAO+SUB will not write the p and q SUB channel data so the writer will generate this data itself. RAW SAO+SUB will only write the R-W SUB channel data but RAW SAO 16 (DAO 16) will write the p and q channel (8 bytes each) which is the SUB data you need for LibCrypt.

*EDIT*
I tried to burn my game image .ccd , .img + .sub using cloneCD using RAW SAO+SUB at x1 speed using the game profile and got a hardware error. The disc then ejected and is a coaster. Here is CloneCD log:

Why did this happen?

I'm not exactly sure why you got this error. Here is a list of the LibCrypt protected psx games: http://www.megagames.com/psx/psx_protected_games.shtml

If your games are not on this list you should just try to use RAW SAO and the "protected game CD" profile in CloneCD. Maybe this will work better for your particular drive.

 

[Moonie]

Looks like a Bad Media, try to use another brand of blank disc!

and DON'T IGNORE READ ERRORS!!!
LypCrypt should not be have read errors!

Read Subs and don't repair it as you burn it
dump with a lower speed and burn with 4x

RAW DAO

You can also try with nero, nero can copy a PSX game too

 

[ploder]

Thanks for the detailed replies slamscaper945 and Moonie.

I see your point, but you would get so much more than just a few psx backups. For example, you would be able to backup your DVD collection using Anydvd and CloneCD/CloneDVD. Backing up data would also be easier as you can fit five times the amount of data on a SL DVD-R as opposed to a CD-R. SL DVD-R blanks are very cheap nowadays, even for quality media.

Yeah, I probably will but when I get the money to build a completely new PC

Alternatively, you could use a program like Nero InfoTool to detect the supported write modes of your drive. Nero InfoTool is really accurate in my experience. It should definitely show you ALL the write modes supported by your optical drive.

Okay. Here is the log from Nero Info tool for my burner:

Drive Information
------------------
Drive                      : YAMAHA   CRW4416S        
Type                       : CD-RW Recorder
Firmware Version           : 1.0j
Buffer Size                : 2 MB
Date                       : 30-05-00
Serial Number              : n/a
Vendor Specific            :  30/05/00
Drive Letter               : F:\
Location                   : 2:4
Mechanism                  : Tray
Read Speed                 : 16 , 10 , 6 , 4 , 2 , 1  X
Write Speed                : 4 , 2 , 1  X

Read CD Text               : No
Return C2 Pointers         : No
Read CD-R                  : Yes
Read CD-RW                 : Yes
Read DVD-ROM               : No
Read DVD-RAM               : No
Read DVD-R                 : No
Read DVD-RW                : No
Read DVD-R DL              : No
Read DVD+R                 : No
Read DVD+RW                : No
Read DVD+R DL              : No
Read BD-ROM                : No
Read BD-R                  : No
Read BD-RE                 : No
Read HD DVD-ROM            : No
Read HD DVD-R              : No
Read HD DVD-R DL           : No
Read HD DVD-RAM            : No
Read HD DVD-RW             : No
Read HD DVD-RW DL          : No
Read HD-BURN               : No
Read Digital Audio         : Yes
Read CD+G                  : Yes
Read VideoCD               : Yes

Write CD-R                 : Yes
Write CD-RW                : Yes
Write DVD-R                : No
Write DVD-RW               : No
Write DVD-R DL             : No
Write DVD+R                : No
Write DVD+RW               : No
Write DVD+R DL             : No
Write DVD-RAM              : No
Write DVD-RAM              : No
Write BD-R                 : No
Write BD-RE                : No
Write HD DVD-R             : No
Write HD DVD-R DL          : No
Write HD DVD-RAM           : No
Write HD DVD-RW            : No
Write HD DVD-RW DL         : No
Write HD-BURN-R            : No
Write HD-BURN-RW           : No
Buffer Underrun Protection : No
Mount Rainier              : No
SolidBurn                  : No
Labelflash                 : No
LightScribe                : No
Modes                      : Packet, TAO, DAO, SAO, RAW SAO, RAW SAO 16, RAW SAO 96, RAW DAO 96

I was pretty sure that my burner couldn't do RAW DAO as it was not an option in CloneCD or Alcohol 120%. Is there a way to find out for sure?

By the way, did you try a different type of media with your brothers Sony DVD/CD writer? Maybe it just doesn't like the media you used and you would have better luck with something else. It's always good to try a few different types whenever you get burns that are "almost good".

No, I haven't had the chance yet but will. He keeps locking his PC so noone can get in!

It does sound like you were playing a LibCrypt protected game though, as LibCrypt was known to crash the game after a short while if it detected a copy was being played.

I doubt it very much because I have looked up my games on this protection list:
http://www.geocities.com/psxcplist/

I'm not exactly sure why you got this error. Here is a list of the LibCrypt protected psx games:

None of my games are libcrypt protected. I think there may be something physically wrong with the drive even though it can still read discs. I get a similar hardware error in Alcohol 120%: "Focus Servo Failure" which I researched as having a few causes:

1. Bad disc media (unlikely since I have tried two different types of CDR)
2. Dirty lens head (unlikely since I used a CD cleaner disc)
3. Power fluctuations (I don't have a clue about this)
4. Crapped out burner (perhaps as it is 7+ years old)

 

[Moonie]

As Carambalos say in the alcohol forum try to make the image in the mds format.

your laser jens CAN be dirty those cd lens cleaner discs are a crap.

 

[ploder]

Okay I'll do that, but what is the best way to clean the internal laser?

 

[Moonie]

Open the Drive and Clean with Alcohol, i do that so

 

[slamscaper945]

I was pretty sure that my burner couldn't do RAW DAO as it was not an option in CloneCD or Alcohol 120%. Is there a way to find out for sure?

Unfortunately it appears your drive does not support RAW mode. It technically should, as it's supposed to comply to the MMC standard (MMC compliant drives made after 1997 are supposed to support MMC-DAO-RAW mode). Blame it on Yamaha for their lame FW.

Not sure why Nero InfoTool is reporting your drive is capable of RAW DAO 96, unless it's doing so because your drive's FW is partially MMC compliant. Regardless, if your drive was capable of MMC-RAW mode CloneCD, Alcohol 120%, and BlindWrite would be able to utilize this and they obviously can't. I have read some posts from people with the same drive as you who couldn't get it to write in RAW mode no matter what they tried, including hacked FW's.

As far as the focusing error, it certainly does sound as if your drive is on it's last legs. It seems it won't last very much longer. Optical drives and hard drives are the most likely components to fail in a computer do to the mechanical nature of all the moving parts inside. The laser in an optical drive can also become weak over time and lose it's ability to read and write discs. The more the drive is used to write, the faster it will fail as writing puts far more strain on it than reading does. The laser uses much more power when writing to form the non-reflective bumps that make up the 1's or 0's on the disc. This is the reason some people can read discs fine but run into problems as soon as they try to burn them.

 

[Moonie]

try to burn the psx game with nero.

the first games al after installing my chip i have burn with nero

 

[ploder]

Thank you all for your imput, especially your helpful reply slamscaper945. I think this is a hardware upgrade job